johngould21 Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 What difference does it make with this Liberal/Conservative gov't? Legal contracts mean nothing to them, and now that they have to face the music, they still dig their heals in. Smart, real smart people looking after the coffers of this Province. The BCTF and nurses Union aren't going away, so Christy better realize that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 B.C. government negotiator admits Liberals tried to pressure teachers into strike: court documents The B.C. government's chief negotiator admitted in open court that the Liberal government was trying to pressure teachers into a full-scale strike in order to get public support to legislate the teachers back to work, new court documents show. Paul Straszak, the province's chief negotiator in 2011/12 contract negotiations with the B.C. Teachers' Federation, told B.C. Supreme Court about the tactic in court transcripts obtained Wednesday by the Opposition B.C. NDP. "So your objective as government was to increase the pressure on teachers to have them go out on a full scale strike?" BCTF lawyer John Rogers asked Straszak in court on Sept. 17, 2013, according to the NDP's court transcript. "So what -" replied Straszak. "Is that correct first?" countered Rogers. "You can explain after, but that is correct?" "We - yes. I'll say that's correct," said Straszak. He went on to explain that "we're simply describing a political dynamic here that if you do step in with legislation prior to a full scale strike you may have a public problem. And so the notion of how you can get to a full scale strike is outlined here" in government documents. The testimony from a top government official appears to contradict Education Minister Peter Fassbender and Premier Christy Clark. Both have repeatedly said the government was not trying to goad the teachers' union into a strike. Supreme Court Justice Susan Griffin ruled in late January that the government did not negotiate in good faith with teachers in 2012, and that the Liberals were preoccupied with a strategy to exert pressure on the union to provoke a strike. "The government thought that a teachers' strike would give the government a political advantage in imposing legislation that the public might otherwise not support," Justice Griffen said in her ruling. In making her ruling, Justice Griffin had not only heard Straszak's testimony, but also had access to confidential cabinet documents that have yet to be made public. However, she did not specifically quote from any document in her ruling. The BCTF eventually struck a mediated settlement with government in 2012, but after only a three-day protest strike. The union did not launch a full-scale strike. Straszak's testimony came during court discussion of a confidential 2011 document titled, "Cabinet Working Group on Labour Bargaining BCTF Negotiations Update," the court records show. The BCTF lawyer, Rogers, also highlighted how the government document outlined "some tools to increase the pressure on the TF to escalate the strike" including cancelling teacher leaves and professional days, as well as applying for an order to reduce teacher pay. It was possible the B.C. Public School Employers' Association might not support such a move by the government, Rogers asked Straszak. "So you're concerned that BCPSEA and employers might not want to do this," Rogers asked. "That's right," replied Straszak. "So what you suggest how to do it is to short payments to school districts to encourage them?" said Rogers. "Yeah," said Straszak. "So these are mechanisms by which the government can direct school districts to do things they might not otherwise want to do and so we were bringing that to government's attention." Premier Clark has denied, as recently as Tuesday, that her government was bargaining in bad faith with teachers. "I fundamentally disagree with that," the premier said, when asked about Justice Griffin's ruling. "That's not correct and that's one of the many reasons we are going to be appealing this ruling to have another judge get a look at it." The NDP said it obtained the transcripts through a regulation application to a court transcription service. http://www.vancouver...0416/story.html Just more lying. Nothing surprising. If they were trying to provoke a strike they did a pretty crappy job of it what with proposing and suceeding with a mediated dispute. It's a thin line between "trying to provoke" and "accepting and obvious risk" and how one person interprets a perticular move in a negoiation can very greatly based on a great many factors including personality, personal risk tolerance. If one wanted to provoke a strike just use your legal right to lock them out. In fact, if the teachers aren't ready to drop their suit, accept the class sizes, and sign a ten year contract the government should do just that. Missing a couple months in a disfunctional educational system isn't going to be the end of the world for any child's upbringing...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 What difference does it make with this Liberal/Conservative gov't? Legal contracts mean nothing to them, and now that they have to face the music, they still dig their heals in. Smart, real smart people looking after the coffers of this Province. The BCTF and nurses Union aren't going away, so Christy better realize that. A good example of how one can view the exact same tactic in completely different lights. I would applaud the government for doing everything they can to limit the amount of spending being devoted to the biggest, fastest growing line items in the BC Budget. The need to control costs aren't going away (in fact they are only going to intensify), so the BCTF and nurses Union better realize that. See how easy it is? BCTF says BC has second worst per student funding. I say we have second best. Clearly we could do better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johngould21 Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 But I guess as long as it benefits big business, it will be status quo with this bunch. Tearing up contracts (legal, binding contracts) is OK with you then? I don't see any Supreme Court supporting the Conservatives on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 But I guess as long as it benefits big business, it will be status quo with this bunch. Tearing up contracts (legal, binding contracts) is OK with you then? I don't see any Supreme Court supporting the Conservatives on this. Lol...you guys are still going on about the contracts/courts? Time to look at the big picture folks or you'll continue fighting (and losing) these same, silly battles until the entire system comes crashing down around you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johngould21 Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Oh no the sky is falling. Those are legal contracts, system or not. The teachers didn't get $$$$, they bargained for smaller, workable classes, what part of systems don't you get? You don't go much higher than the Supreme Court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 ^^^unwilling to face reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Oh no the sky is falling. Those are legal contracts, system or not. The teachers didn't get $$$$, they bargained for smaller, workable classes, what part of systems don't you get? You don't go much higher than the Supreme Court. The smaller classes would still cost hundreds of millions a year above and beyond what we are already spending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johngould21 Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 JR they (Conservatives) put themselves in this mess, that's the reality of it all. Have you ever had your contract torn up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 If you support the government ignoring the legal rights of teachers don't get pissy when some guy hits you on the head and takes your wallet. Society is based on people following the law, having the government ignore the court sets a dangerous precedence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 JR they (Conservatives) put themselves in this mess, that's the reality of it all. Have you ever had your contract torn up? The vast majority of us don't have labour contracts and our work conditions can change (drastically) in a heartbeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 If you support the government ignoring the legal rights of teachers don't get pissy when some guy hits you on the head and takes your wallet. Society is based on people following the law, having the government ignore the court sets a dangerous precedence. The government also has the right to pursue the challenges it is making in the courts. It also has the right (though not ever done) to ignore judgements should it be in the national interest. Nobody is breaking the law, and nobody should be getting pissy just because they fail to understand that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 The government also has the right to pursue the challenges it is making in the courts. It also has the right (though not ever done) to ignore judgements should it be in the national interest. Nobody is breaking the law, and nobody should be getting pissy just because they fail to understand that. Then why have contracts at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johngould21 Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 According to Ron, a couple of months won't hurt any child. Tell that to Christy and her, we're doing what's right for kids. Yeah right, I don't believe a thing that comes from that womens mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 If I could go back in time and get a four month long summer, have to catch up in school, but have less of a debt burden to inherit I would vote for that ten times out of ten. The irony of people that want to spend like drunken sailors, which inevitably adds to debt loads that future generations have to pay would be hilarious if it wasn't so sad and misguided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inane Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 If I could go back in time and get a four month long summer, have to catch up in school, but have less of a debt burden to inherit I would vote for that ten times out of ten. The irony of people that want to spend like drunken sailors, which inevitably adds to debt loads that future generations have to pay would be hilarious if it wasn't so sad and misguided. It's not the kids that complain about strikes or missed days, it's the parents who are suddenly stuck with having to do something with their child where before they were getting free daycare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johngould21 Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 You mean spend like the Gordon Campbell gov't did? Only his cronies in the development industry benefitted from his drunken spending. This man ripped up legal contracts, and was the most disgraced Premier this province will ever know. However, cronyism took over and he's sitting on easy street in London on the countries dime. You sound like a true Republican with that final statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 It's not the kids that complain about strikes or missed days, it's the parents who are suddenly stuck with having to do something with their child where before they were getting free daycare. Agreed. Perhaps it's time they learn that their children are THERE responsibility. Edit: Or as it turns out, THEIR responsibility, for all the incredibly dense and or anal people that could not determine my intent on their own....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inane Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 oh ron...the one word you capitalize to prove your point you spell wrong... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 You mean spend like the Gordon Campbell gov't did? Only his cronies in the development industry benefitted from his drunken spending. This man ripped up legal contracts, and was the most disgraced Premier this province will ever know. However, cronyism took over and he's sitting on easy street in London on the countries dime. You sound like a true Republican with that final statement. No I am a classical liberal. There are things Gordon could have done different for sure (I would have cut taxes, but not as sharply, but I cheered the day they canned 90% of the Ministry of Transportation). And if you think Gordon Cambell was the most discraced premier of all time you clearly don't have much memory or knowlege of history. Though you would not be alone what with (and I still find this hilarious) the NDP teaming up with Bill freaking Vanderzalm to defeat the HST (FYI if you think lefties and trade unions hated Gordon Cambell you should have seen what they thought of Bill back in the day!) a couple decades after being their biggest enemy. But I guess in wacky BC where the public is thick like post and even Bill's old rival ends up being Jimmy Pattisons right hand man perception is everything while reality goes up in so much (insert favority drug) smoke...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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