Rey Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 reading is key. He said it's fine if you think Nylander is consistent but from what theminister saw, he was one of the most consistent The most skilled is not necessarily the best. He has holes in his game but in terms of pure skill, it's hard to argue You're right. Reading is the key. He said, that Nylander doesn't have those holes in his game. Suddenly, you ended up siding with what i said, and arguing with what theminister said. the irony... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rey Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 Seems like you might be one of them. Some points to consider Ritchie: Many players suffer injuries through juniors. Nylander: Playing on bigger ice, compared to NHL(100ft to 85ft), means more time to see the play/hold on to the puck. Perlini: Actually is a great, smooth skater. Virtanen: You cannot be alive, let alone play hockey, without a brain. This is disappointing. If your going to start with an insult, i expect you to post with a rational post. This is just embarrassing. Points to Consider - Ritchie is dominated junior cause of size and strength. Under those circumstances, you can't get injured against kids if you are going to play that style against men. The other points, aside from the Perlini, which i'll let you think whatever you want. Nylander and Virtanen, are nonsense. Nylander trying to deke out 3 people on a 5 on 3 in the U-18, and do you really want to be literal with Virtanen? Stay in context kid. No reason for me to respond to your next post if it stays the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rey Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 Your post is hyperbole with a couple of personal shots at the other members for good measure. It reveals nothing about Fabbri or the other prospects. This is incorrect. I've said several about the prospects. The problem here is that people are simpleminded. People are scared of posting opinions, and people only listen to what other people say, without doing the work themselves. This is why, people get so defensive when a different perspective is shown. This is why, even the top guys are criticized, by nobodies on hockey forums. People believe what they want to believe, and think they are always right. This is exactly whats wrong with discussing sports. 9/10 people have no opinions and only say what they read. This is why, it's so easy to make a thread about drafting, say Virtanen, or a Kyle Beach, and have everyone jump on board. It's sad, but it happens time and time again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robongo Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 Who would you guys rather have drop, Dal Colle or Draisaitl? For me personally I would want Draisaitl. He reminds of Kopitar in the way he uses his body to protect the puck. He carried his team offensively this season with 105 points in 64 games with the second best forward on his team who is an over-ager having only 72 points in 71 games. I like Leon, but I love Dal Colle. I think he's a slam dunk star and I've been praying since the start of the year that we'd somehow have a crack at drafting him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
"Bull" Horvat Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 For those that know who Corey Pronman, here's an insightful segment on players' stock rising, and a lot of good prospect talk. https://soundcloud.com/lowdownwithlowetide/hour-1-feat-guy-flaming-corey-pronman Skip to the 6th minute or so in summary of the quotes from @Hope_Smoke (who has no life and tweets non stop from radio interviews in Toronto) ** if youre reading these quotes start from bottom up** cheers "I think Ekblad is close to that level of prospect [like Seth Jones]. I think both are very close as prospects" Expand Reply Retweet Favorite More Hope_Smoke @Hope_Smoke 35m Pronman "I probably would lean to Seth Jones over Ekblad [if they were in the same draft] but I don't think it's a clear argument" Expand Reply Retweet Favorite More Hope_Smoke @Hope_Smoke 37m Pronman "I think Fabbri is a guy who you can make a good argument about going in the top 20" Expand Reply Retweet Favorite More Hope_Smoke @Hope_Smoke 37m Pronman "what you want to see in a small guy, because you want him to overcome his deficiencies, great skater/skill knows how to make plays" Expand Hope_Smoke @Hope_Smoke 38m Pronman "Fabbri is a guy who has impressed me all season. I've had in my first round since August. Does so many things well" Expand Reply Retweet Favorite More Hope_Smoke @Hope_Smoke 39m Pronman "I think Bennett and Reinhart have more potential as offensive and defensive players as well [over Draisaitl]" Expand Reply Retweet Favorite More Hope_Smoke @Hope_Smoke 40m Pronman "I group players in tiers, & I have Draisaitl in 5-9 tier. If Bennett or Reinhart are on the board I recommend them over Draisaitl" Expand Reply Retweet Favorite More Hope_Smoke @Hope_Smoke 41m Pronman "I personally wouldn't advise it [taking Draistaitl 3rd overall]." Expand Reply Retweet Favorite More Hope_Smoke @Hope_Smoke 42m Pronman "from pure skill to overall upside Nylander is the best player in this draft" Expand Reply Retweet Favorite More Hope_Smoke @Hope_Smoke 42m Pronman "I think Nylander's firmly a top 4 prospect at this draft. I don't know if I'm confident that he'll go there." Expand Reply Retweet Favorite More Hope_Smoke @Hope_Smoke 43m Pronman "then at the Under 17s, Nylander was arguably the best player there" Expand Reply Retweet Favorite More Hope_Smoke @Hope_Smoke 44m Pronman "Nylander's play for Modo from Jan-Feb on was some of the best hockey I've seen from a 17 year old at the SHL level" Expand Reply Retweet Favorite More Hope_Smoke @Hope_Smoke 45m Pronman "towards Jan-Feb Nylander started to worry me, but from then to the end of the year he was incredible in Sweden" Expand Reply Retweet Favorite More Hope_Smoke @Hope_Smoke 46m Pronman "my top tier going into this season was Nylander, Ekblad, Reinhart & Bennett. Those were the 4 & the order fluctuated a little bit" Expand Reply Retweet Favorite More Hope_Smoke @Hope_Smoke 48m Pronman "I think Bennett still has a lot more room to grow. This is still only his second CHL season" Expand Reply Retweet Favorite More Hope_Smoke @Hope_Smoke 48m Pronman "Sam Bennett is an incredible all around talent. Speed, skill, hockey sense and his intangibles." Expand Reply Retweet Favorite More Hope_Smoke @Hope_Smoke 49m Pronman "...dynamic def player to go with, not dynamic, but very good offensive abilities. That's why he's the moderately clear #1" Expand Reply Retweet Favorite More Hope_Smoke @Hope_Smoke 50m Pronman "...is he [Ekblad] a dynamic defensive player? From close observations, and talking to scouts, I do think he is a..." Expand Reply Retweet Favorite More Hope_Smoke @Hope_Smoke 52m Pronman "he [Ekblad] wasn't as dynamic as Drew Doughty was coming into the draft with the puck. If you're going to put him 1st..." Expand Reply Retweet Favorite More Hope_Smoke @Hope_Smoke 53m Pronman "that's why I watched Ekblad very closely this year. It was evident he wasn't as highly skilled as top D prospects of recent years" Expand Reply Retweet Favorite More Hope_Smoke @Hope_Smoke 54m Pronman "defensive value is always one of the hardest things to isolate when you're scouting" Expand Reply Retweet Favorite More Hope_Smoke @Hope_Smoke 1h Pronman "Sanheim he was a guy who wasn't a top 2 round prospect & now I'll be surprised if he isn't taken in the top 45" Expand Reply Retweet Favorite More Hope_Smoke @Hope_Smoke 1h Pronman "Fiala had an outstanding second half one of the best in recent years. Went from a fringe 1st rounder to a top 10 guy" Expand Reply Retweet Favorite More Hope_Smoke @Hope_Smoke 1h Pronman on TSN 1260 "a couple of guys that really stood out the second half of the year were Ehlers & Fiala" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rey Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 If anyone wants to ask Pronman a question, he usually comes on hfboard to answer questions: He answered a few on this thread - http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1672177 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theminister Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 You're right. Reading is the key. He said, that Nylander doesn't have those holes in his game. Suddenly, you ended up siding with what i said, and arguing with what theminister said. the irony... I never said Nylander didn't have holes in his game. Far from it. I questioned your assertion that he didn't put effort in off if the ice or he'd be 1st overall. You have no source for that claim. That's just your speculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asian player Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 You're right. Reading is the key. He said, that Nylander doesn't have those holes in his game. Suddenly, you ended up siding with what i said, and arguing with what theminister said. the irony... Find me a quote where theminister said that Nylander doesn't have holes in his game. I remember him saying that Nylander needs to work on defense and some other areas that need to improve in the things you say... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 Find me a quote where theminister said that Nylander doesn't have holes in his game. I remember him saying that Nylander needs to work on defense and some other areas that need to improve in the things you say... There's really no point. Rey will continue to tel you that you have a reading problem when all he does is read things wrong. I've never seen someone spin peoples words so much for the sake of an argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robongo Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 Here's Pronman's list of the players he think that will end up being the best in this draft : 1 Aaron Ekblad D Barrie OHL2 Sam Bennett C Kingston OHL3 William Nylander RW Modo SHL4 Sam Reinhart C Kootenay WHL5 Nikolaj Ehlers LW Halifax QMJHL6 Kevin Fiala LW HV71 SHL7 Leon Draisaitl C Prince Albert WHL8 Michael Dal Colle LW Oshawa OHL9 Kasperi Kapanen RW KalPa Liiga10 Haydn Fleury D Red Deer WHL Edit: Sorry, just saw it was posted. Interesting list none the less Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theminister Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 If anyone wants to ask Pronman a question, he usually comes on hfboard to answer questions: He answered a few on this thread - http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1672177 Someone with a HF account please ask Pronman how many CHL junior games he watches live each year and how often he travels to Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 Although I have softened my view on Ritchie, Virtanen, and Ehlers (and would be happy with whoever the Canucks picked), I still stick by my original thought that Nylander is the best/safest draft choice of the 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 Someone with a HF account please ask Pronman how many CHL junior games he watches live each year and how often he travels to Canada. I get the sense you really don't like Pronman, do you theminister? I get that he doesn't watch all the games but does talk to a lot of scouts to help form his opinion. There might be better sources out there, but I'd take it over someone unknown on Hockey's Future or a similar site. I don't always agree with his rankings for sure, but the pros and cons of a player are generally pretty good I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theminister Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 I get the sense you really don't like Pronman, do you theminister? I get that he doesn't watch all the games but does talk to a lot of scouts to help form his opinion. There might be better sources out there, but I'd take it over someone unknown on Hockey's Future or a similar site. I don't always agree with his rankings for sure, but the pros and cons of a player are generally pretty good I think. I think any half quality researcher can do the same. Fair enough if that's his angle but it bothers me that he's put up as a draft expert and evaluator if he doesn't watch live games. There are countless Canadians who should be considered above his qualifications. He's done a good job self promoting on the web but it doesn't equal doing the work required of an actual scout IMO. Talking to scouts is one thing, scouting is another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absent Canuck Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 This is incorrect. I've said several about the prospects. The problem here is that people are simpleminded. People are scared of posting opinions, and people only listen to what other people say, without doing the work themselves. This is why, people get so defensive when a different perspective is shown. This is why, even the top guys are criticized, by nobodies on hockey forums. People believe what they want to believe, and think they are always right. This is exactly whats wrong with discussing sports. 9/10 people have no opinions and only say what they read. This is why, it's so easy to make a thread about drafting, say Virtanen, or a Kyle Beach, and have everyone jump on board. It's sad, but it happens time and time again. I would invite you to step back and apply these inflammatory statements to yourself. Perhaps you may consider that you are in the same boat as the rest of us Here is a piece of advice -for what its worth. Back when I was a teenager a very wise friend of my fathers gave me something to ponder. He said ...........'only stupid people think others are stupid. Took me a few years to figure that out, but when I did, it completely changed the way i interacted with others and how they interacted with me. Give it a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 I would invite you to step back and apply these inflammatory statements to yourself. Perhaps you may consider that you are in the same boat as the rest of us Here is a piece of advice -for what its worth. Back when I was a teenager a very wise friend of my fathers gave me something to ponder. He said ...........'only stupid people think others are stupid. Took me a few years to figure that out, but when I did, it completely changed the way i interacted with others and how they interacted with me. Give it a try. Haha. Good advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOMapleLaughs Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 Pronman sounds like some of the posters on Cdc. Ignore overall package, focus on pure talent. Then throw hands up in air when it doesn't translate. The real kicker is Fiala in the top-6. Over Leon and Dal Colle. Good God. Put down the crackpipe. Maybe the asterisk is that some of these guys will go on to score meaningless points on horrible teams. Like Grabner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theminister Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 Pronman sounds like some of the posters on Cdc. Ignore overall package, focus on pure talent. Then throw hands up in air when it doesn't translate. How can someone be a restaurant critic if they don't go to the actual restaurant? How can someone be a travel expert if they don't visit the country? Scouts watch a game in person every night, sometimes two, and talk to the players after the game, their parents, their coaches. This guy had never been to the U17s, the U18s or the WJC. How can he be an expert? Has he even been to a draft? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOMapleLaughs Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 How can someone be a restaurant critic if they don't go to the actual restaurant? How can someone be a travel expert if they don't visit the country? Scouts watch a game in person every night, sometimes two, and talk to the players after the game, their parents, their coaches. This guy had never been to the U17s, the U18s or the WJC. How can he be an expert? Has he even been to a draft?I have no idea. Is Pronman not going to games? Or even watching them on video? Then why does his opinion matter? At this time of year i'm pretty skeptical on a lot of opinions going around. It's been years and years of overhyping Canadian picks, for starters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theminister Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 I have no idea. Is Pronman not going to games? Or even watching them on video? Then why does his opinion matter? At this time of year i'm pretty skeptical on a lot of opinions going around. It's been years and years of overhyping Canadian picks, for starters. He's based in Florida and has no hockey background. There is a reason why NHL clubs and scouting organizations have regional scouts. I've yet to hear a single person say they have ever seen him at games and I talk to quite a few people in the business. They even ask, "Who is this guy?" Say what people will about MacKenzie, MaGuire and Button but at least they go to games all of the time. Going to games doesn't immediately make a person a good evaluator but I believe NOT going means you can't be. It just really bothers me that there is this guy in Florida watching video only and he's got this web cred above Canadians and Americans from the north who actually put in the hours with little credit. EDIT: I know from someone who has actually talked to him that as of two years ago he'd never been to Canada and had no travel budget. Maybe that has changed but I doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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