Sedins and Burrows the next four years

[Pouria]

In the 40 odd years I have followed this game I have only seen a handful of players go from hero to zero in a season. John Cheechoo is my go to example. There is no way the Sedins will drop off to 20 pt players, and if for some reason they did have a meteoric fall from grace, I'm 100% sure they will call it career before accepting 7 mil a year to drag us down. Burrows is another example altogether. If for some reason Burr is done, which I wholeheartedly disagree with, then he will be traded, not bought out or waived. Just FYI, a player who is waived and clears waivers can only result in a cap savings of up to 875K.

The Sedins are untradeable because they have no movement clauses, they cannot, will not and should not be traded. They are far too good and far too proud to be a lead weight holding us back. You should not worry about it, a "what if" of that magnitude is tantamount to being hit by a city bus in a rural setting. A more plausible number to worry about is whether Dank gets 20 Goals next season, not points....unless he is injured and plays 25-30 games...in which case his cap hit will not really matter.

Its typical CDC and Canuck fan logic. They have short term memories and will run any player out of town if they stopped producing for 20 games. We ran a gold medal Olympian goaltender out of town and we want to run two Art Ross/Hart/Pearson winners out of town. The players that have won major awards just a couple of years ago and we want to buy them out. Some Canucks fans are so pathetic that am not even sure they should be following any sports team.

[Papayas]

lol.. what a sad city vancouver is.. ABSOLUTELY no loyalty from fans in this city what so ever.

if we can afford sitting Ballard's salary in the pressbox for 2-3 years, we can afford the Sedins and Burrows salary even IF they regress to a 30-50 points players playing on the second/third line. For once people, show that you are not one of those backstabbing douches who would sell your brother for a can of pop when you are very thirsty.

[DIBdaQUIB]

You think this year is normal for them? I can't believe you guys are Canucks fans. So tell, me how many years have they produced like this before this year? And Burrows a 20 point player? If you used a bit of logic and common sense, you would probably think other factors affected their play like the coaching, system and injuries. You can't go from being an 80 point player to a 40 point player in a span of 5 months and when you are still only 33 years of age. Sedins will bounce back next year, am fully confident that they will. Burrows will also bounce back once he recovers from injuries and bad luck, especially with Sedins not being their usual self.

You are correct that this did not happen in 5 months. Based on their production stats, their decline began during the 2011 SCF and has continued to decline each season since then. It has simply accelerated this season. They were declining under AV so Torts is not the reason (at least solely) for their numbers. This may not seem logical to you but it appears to carry more weight than your comments like "they will bounce back".

[Quoted]

You are correct that this did not happen in 5 months. Based on their production stats, their decline began during the 2011 SCF and has continued to decline each season since then. It has simply accelerated this season. They were declining under AV so Torts is not the reason (at least solely) for their numbers. This may not seem logical to you but it appears to carry more weight than your comments like "they will bounce back".

I'd expect a steady decline as they age etc., but this year is a huge drop off. It seems reasonable to expect them to do better next year but certainly not back to where they were a few years ago.

[DIBdaQUIB]

lol.. what a sad city vancouver is.. ABSOLUTELY no loyalty from fans in this city what so ever.

if we can afford sitting Ballard's salary in the pressbox for 2-3 years, we can afford the Sedins and Burrows salary even IF they regress to a 30-50 points players playing on the second/third line. For once people, show that you are not one of those backstabbing douches who would sell your brother for a can of pop when you are very thirsty.

It's a business FFS! These guys you are feeling sorry for are making $7M/yr to play hockey. The GM himself just shopped Kesler who has given his heart and soul to this team. Loyalty is fine to a point but if it means having a team that wallows in the basement of the league (currently 22nd?) then it is misplaced.

As history has shown, pro athletes are commodities and their legacy is defined by many things. IF the Sedins continue their current trajectory, they risk undoing most of the good will and accolades they built up during their best years. Sad but that's the business. they are in.

[DIBdaQUIB]

I'd expect a steady decline as they age etc., but this year is a huge drop off. It seems reasonable to expect them to do better next year but certainly not back to where they were a few years ago.

A reasonable expectation and hopefully it goes that way.

[ALTtimegreat]

You want to buyout Sedins and Burrows? Are you an idiot?

People here cried over the Luongo trade and some think we got fleeced or didn't get enough back. If they buy out Sedins and Burrows, Rogers Arena would probably be set on fire. Good thing you aren't a GM, you would make our team worse than the Oilers/Flames. Yes, buyout Sedins and Burrows and give Kesler away for a bag of puck. That is how you build a championship team. Those teams that have P. Kane or Crosby, not only have had luck on their side but they have suffered decades to get those players and the team they have now. I doubt you would be a Canuck fan if they go in that direction and basically be a garbage team for a decade or more. We have the pieces to retool, we don't need a full on rebuild. We already have Kassian, Horvat, Shinkaruk, Grenier, Jensen, Schroeder, Gaunce, Corrado, Stanton, Lack, Markstrom and Tanev in our organization along with relatively young players like Edler and Santorelli. A team like this doesn't do a complete rebuild especially when we also have Hamhuis, Garrison, Bieksa, Kesler, Burrows and Sedins on top of that.

lol You are one stupid idiot if you think the sedins will come back to their productive selves.

Learn to read dumbass. Nowhere it says that I say to trade Kesler for bug of pucks.

[Pouria]

You are correct that this did not happen in 5 months. Based on their production stats, their decline began during the 2011 SCF and has continued to decline each season since then. It has simply accelerated this season. They were declining under AV so Torts is not the reason (at least solely) for their numbers. This may not seem logical to you but it appears to carry more weight than your comments like "they will bounce back".

How can you explain that D. Sedin, H. Sedin, Burrows, Edler, Bieksa and even Booth suddenly lost all offense in just one season?

Sedins declined a little bit after the cup run, going from 100 points to 80 points but that logic where you say they are now 40 point players due to continuous decline doesn't make sense at all. It doesn't make sense because they are still 33 not 43 years old and they have sustained injuries and seem tired due to all the minutes they accumulated at the beginning of the season. Didn't they start very well at the beginning of the season? They were at the top of NHL scoring leader board at one point this season and now they can't even score a goal or get a point? So you are telling me that they went from a top NHL star to AHL fodder in a span of 3 months?

It doesn't make sense, to the point where you actually have to sit back and laugh at this logic. There is a very good explanation on why they are having a bad season and sudden drop off or decline is not the logical explanation for that unless you are talking about Cheechoo.

[viking mama]

Buy out/trade Sedins and burrows. Sedins will continue to decline while other opposing teams' young stars will only get better and reach their prime...

Make Kes C. Go after Patrick Kane.

Wishful thinking though..sedins are here to stay. Gillis should have waited til the offseason to re-sign them..maybe it wouldnt have been 7 mil but around 4 each with the way theyre producing especially daniel.

LOL. They both want to be on an American contender of favor!

The powers-that-be in this league have made the landscaping for certain teams...far more desirable to free-agents & cup-seekers. League politics DO matter... & they have bettered the odds of winning in the big show...if you're upon a team that's a part the BOG Chairman's voting-block. I'm NOT saying that a progressive outside team cannot win the SC...just that the odds dramatically favor the insiders. Constant waffling on standards by the NHL's so-called "best" veteran referees...those very inconsistant DPS judgements....far-reaching eastern media propaganda controlled by kingpin interests...& that back-biting or un-grandfathered amendment to LTC in the new CBA.....all say this is so.

Like Coach AV...who when asked why he wanted to go to NY said,.."I want to go where I can win the Cup"....Kesler & Kane both know all about league politics first-hand, and how they can clearly impact the game being played upon the ice,... and neither of 'em see many perks or favors going VAN's way,..now...or in the near future.

[Pouria]

lol You are one stupid idiot if you think the sedins will come back to their productive selves.

Learn to read dumbass. Nowhere it says that I say to trade Kesler for bug of pucks.

You are the stupidest person I've ever met if you think the Canucks will buyout Sedins and Burrows. Yeah, they should also buyout Kesler too, since he declined and can't score 40 goals. Maybe buyout the whole damn team, idiot. Actually an idiot would probably be smarter than you since not even an idiot thinks the Canucks will buyout their franchise player due to one bad season under a new coach that has been known to suffocate offense for the sake of defense. Tell me why the Rangers are now suddenly scoring goals with Torts gone or how our PP became last in the NHL.

But no, am the dumb one because am actually thinking before posting crap about the state of this team. I know the Sedins won't go back to being Art Ross winners but am not dumb enough to think they are 20 point players now. Just idiotic logic from a typical Canuck fan and other fans wonder why some Canuck fans are dumb as a rock.

[Ride the red Pony]

I like many hope the Sedins can get their mojo back as fast as it seems they have lost it. It doesn't seem likely as they have been declining since the 2010/2011 season (especially Daniel). I don't think its as much about what they are or aren't doing, but more about how other teams have forced them to play.

I think the remaining games of the season will be very telling, we will see the who is up to the task. Who engages the challenge and who throws in the towel.

[ALTtimegreat]

I like many hope the Sedins can get their mojo back as fast as it seems they have lost it. It doesn't seem likely as they have been declining since the 2010/2011 season (especially Daniel). I don't think its as much about what they are or aren't doing, but more about how other teams have forced them to play.

I think the remaining games of the season will be very telling, we will see the who is up to the task. Who engages the challenge and who throws in the towel.

They have been declining. Bottom line other teams have figured out how to defend them especially in the playoffs and other teams' young stars are getting better and hitting their prime while the sedins are aging and declining.

Bad signing by Gillis. 7 mil for 4 years each..should have waited til the off season.

[Papayas]

It's a business FFS! These guys you are feeling sorry for are making $7M/yr to play hockey. The GM himself just shopped Kesler who has given his heart and soul to this team. Loyalty is fine to a point but if it means having a team that wallows in the basement of the league (currently 22nd?) then it is misplaced.

As history has shown, pro athletes are commodities and their legacy is defined by many things. IF the Sedins continue their current trajectory, they risk undoing most of the good will and accolades they built up during their best years. Sad but that's the business. they are in.

it is business FOR THE OWNERS. It is not a fan's job or role to start acting like a wannabe owners and chase out whoever underperform for less than a season ffs.

as far as I concern, it is just fans like you who is trying to suggest ppl they should chase the Sedins and Burrows out of town, NOT the ownership or our gm. So don't give me this "it's business" bull because you are just a hockey fan.

[ALTtimegreat]

Should rebuild around Kes but its not gonna happen since Gillis looks to be keeping the sedins and might trade kes in the offseason. In the coming years, stars like mackinnon, duchene will be way better than older sedins and its not gonna look pretty.

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

I think the Canucks are--and should be--married to the Sedins for the remainder of their deals (and for as long as the twins want to play in the NHL). I still believe that they will retire as #1 and #2 on the all time list of greatest Canucks. And I still feel strongly that they should play their entire NHL careers in Canucks colours.

I also believe that the Sedins can rebound. I think Torts has realized that he needs to rethink their usage going forward.

The Canucks were severely handcuffed this season. They were ill-prepared for the new CBA's cap reduction, having locked-up key players to contracts that committed most of their cap space to the existing group and left very little money to flesh out the roster and plug some apparent holes for the opening of the 2013-14 season. This team barely put together a full roster and needed to luck out with guys like Santorelli (until injured), Richardson, and Stanton. Their centre depth had been hurt badly by the loss of Malhotra, the Hodgson trade, and until recently, an very ineffective draft history in replenishing talent and building young depth (coupled with the trading away of too many draft picks).

This led to the Canucks really needing to ride Hank and Kes heavily this year to have any hope of competing for a playoff spot. Kesler can (mostly) handle this kind of load over 82 games and remain effective (so long as he's not injured). Hank and Danny seemed to falter as we got deeper into the season.

Although they'd previously been extremely durable workhorse types, and their conditioning remains among the best on the team, I think the Sedins' advanced age has led them to being vulnerable to breaking down over a long season if overused and not protected in the lineup. That's not saying they've declined to the degree that this season's production suggests but rather, that the Sedins need controlled usage (like AV's zone matching) more now than they did 5 years ago.

This was not the point in the twins' careers to start playing them in all situations (O-zone/D-zone, PP/5v5/PK, etc) and at minutes well beyond 20:00 TOI/G. This is the time to start really managing their minutes and carefully controlling their game situational usage.

Untimely injuries were certainly a factor. Unprecedented drops in shooting percentage and scoring production were something that no one predicted (at least to the degree we've seen). But I really feel like a good portion of what's happened this season (with the twins) comes down to their usage and their supporting cast (which also drives usage).

To some degree, the thin forward group this season necessitated that the Sedins pitch-in more on defensive zone starts and needed to kill some penalties (although it really seems like Torts chose to take Hansen--the Canucks' former #1 PK forward--off of the penalty kill and give his SHTOI to the twins). Whatever the case, there was really no need to play the Sedins as "all situations" players on a game-in-and-game-out basis over an entire season.

The twins need to have their usage tightly controlled. Play them at a high offensive zonestart percentage at 5v5 and on the PP. Only put them on the PK and in their own end when injuries necessitate such roles.

I think this will be one of the lessons of this season. With adjustments, we should see the twins rebound. To what degree remains to be seen but I firmly believe that they'll have better, more productive seasons for 2014-15 and 2015-16.

Burrows is another case. While he's a heart and soul guy, he's not as central to this team's core and identity as the twins.

As much as it seems like it sometimes (to much of this fan base), the Canucks are not--and shouldn't be--married to Alex Burrows.

Management and the coaches need to sit down and take a good hard look at if and where Burrows fits moving forward and what they expect his prognosis to be. They know more than any of us about what's going on with Alex. If it's truly just an awful season of injuries and his offensive futility in a mere aberration, then they should be patient and give him a chance to bounce back.

But if the Canucks know, or suspect, that something is truly "wrong" with Burrows, then they need to think long and hard about getting away from his contract.

We knew that Burrows would likely be "overpaid" under the terms of his new contract. He basically needed to be the twins' regular RW and push for 30 goals every season for him to be worth the money. I don't think anyone expected that Burrows would manage that kind of production (and role) over the life of his deal. But I think it was fair to expect him to pot around 20 goals per season, play a top role on the PK, play solid in both ends, give the Sedins a capable RW when needed, and otherwise move around the top-nine as a versatile player that could fill various needs.

If he's now merely a decent defensive forward and penalty killer but basically a black hole on offense, then he's overpaid by roughly $3 million/season. I don't think it's as bad as it's looked but I'm worried that Alex will never get back to being the player that Canucks--especially given the goalscoring issues-- need him to be. And if that's the case, the time to deal with the issue is this offseason, while there is still a compliance buyout available.

Quite a bit depends on whether the Canucks want to try for a quick re-tool or if they want to go full re-build. In a re-build, it doesn't hurt to keep Burrows because he's a great lockerroom guy, a true team player, and an leader on the ice. His production doesn't really matter if he's giving everything to this team every night and showing the young players what it means to be a true Canuck. But if the Vancouver wants to try to get back into contention quickly, they need to be getting value out of contracts like Burrows.

His deal will never be a bargain. That said, I think we all expected that he'd only be moderately overpaid (and could justify the money because of the savings from his previous deal). I don't believe anyone could have foreseen what's been happening. It's very difficult to make sense of Burrows this season. I get that injuries can be setbacks but I've never seen a guy struggle like this (and I've heard a couple veteran NHL GMs comment that they've never seen anything like what's happened to Burrows).

Hopefully, the Canucks know what's going on and they will be able to make the right prediction on where Burrows' future lies.

But if 2013-14 Burrows is actually an indicator for his future, then the Canucks need to use their last compliance buyout to clear the remainder of Burrows' contract and free up a roster spot for a player who can help them score some goals. As far as Booth goes, they'd just have to either keep him for his last season or do whatever it takes to trade him (including salary retention).

My hope is that this season proves to be an unfortunate statistical aberration and just a write-off year in the careers of guys like Burrows and Daniel.

I recognize that there are some significant changes that need to be made before this team can compete again. I just think that a good portion of the lost offense (at the top of the lineup) could be recouped through the addition/change of a couple key player personnel and a few tweeks to the how the coaches utilize the roster.

This is especially the case, IMHO, for the Sedins. I'm really not sure about Burrows (but I really like him alot--as a player and as a person--so I'm hoping for the best).

Time will tell.

[NexusRift]

Well.........there's no denying accomplishments this organization garnered since 2006 to 2012. Said, Presidents Trophy, Art Ross, Hart, Selke, Jennings, etc. Along the way, the core remained and was responsible for the successes. That being said...............

This team is not the 2011SCF's team. Key pieces were knocked off the roster; Torres, Erhoff, Malholtra, Salo, none of who were replaced by anything remotely comparable. "Plugs" basically since their departure.

There's alot of factors involved with our diminished performance of late. Aging core, AV's ineffective coaching, MG's inability to replace comparable player personnel, mis-managed roster placement, (goalie controversy), and for this season? As mentioned plus, new coach, system, and injuries; all still going on as I type.

Let's not forget that we're in a tougher division as well. It could be argued that our success a few years back was in fact due to the weak division we were in. Then again you can look at it as a team peaking at the right time, regardless of the division they were in. I'm guessing that even if the 'Nucks back then were in the division with the California teams, they'd still have done well. I guess we'll never know though.

I'd love if Kes was kept to build a roster around him. As mentioned earlier by DIBdaQUIB, it's a wonderful idea. Thing is, would Kes go for that. It would mean staying in Van and not returning to, or close to his home State anytime soon. Sedins? Yes. With their diminished play and age, move 'em to 2nd line duty for less minutes, move Bur to checking status on the 3rd., and place Higs at center on the 4th.

This would only work if we got some legit offensive weapons and/or our prospects surprise the #ell out of us and prosper early.

[Ride the red Pony]

They have been declining. Bottom line other teams have figured out how to defend them especially in the playoffs and other teams' young stars are getting better and hitting their prime while the sedins are aging and declining.

Bad signing by Gillis. 7 mil for 4 years each..should have waited til the off season.

I agree, Micheal Gillis was hasty with the signings. I'm not sure what caused him too rush into this. I have never really been a big fan of the Sedins play, but they have put up some nice numbers in the past.

Mr. Gillis has handcuffed himself and this team with term and dollars as well as NTC/NMC's with many on the current roster. I don't believe there is much he can do, as he is adamant that he will not request players to waive. I think the only way to move forward from all of this is for him to either step down, demote him or have him removed from his position. This will allow a new GM to come in and make the requests of the players to waive without it becoming a complete debacle.

You would have to think that any GM coming in would really have to consider asking the Sedins to waive, so the team can move in a new direction.

[Ben Kenobi]

I think the Canucks are--and should be--married to the Sedins for the remainder of their deals (and for as long as the twins want to play in the NHL). I still believe that they will retire as #1 and #2 on the all time list of greatest Canucks.

Naslund scored more goals. Pavel was a better player too, and Bobby Lou is the best canuck player of all time. Linden had better longevity.

[Ben Kenobi]

With their diminished play and age, move 'em to 2nd line

Won't work for the same reason it didn't work with Naslund. You can't have 14m tied up in two second line players, who aren't performing. You have to get rid of them in order to move on. Even if you have to eat a bunch of salary.

[Nuxfanabroad]

LOL. They both want to be on an American contender of favor!

The powers-that-be in this league have made the landscaping for certain teams...far more desirable to free-agents & cup-seekers. League politics DO matter... & they have bettered the odds of winning in the big show...if you're upon a team that's a part the BOG Chairman's voting-block. I'm NOT saying that a progressive outside team cannot win the SC...just that the odds dramatically favor the insiders. Constant waffling on standards by the NHL's so-called "best" veteran referees...those very inconsistant DPS judgements....far-reaching eastern media propaganda controlled by kingpin interests...& that back-biting or un-grandfathered amendment to LTC in the new CBA.....all say this is so.

Like Coach AV...who when asked why he wanted to go to NY said,.."I want to go where I can win the Cup"....Kesler & Kane both know all about league politics first-hand, and how they can clearly impact the game being played upon the ice,... and neither of 'em see many perks or favors going VAN's way,..now...or in the near future.

Well said..sadly, I say.