DIBdaQUIB Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 it is business FOR THE OWNERS. It is not a fan's job or role to start acting like a wannabe owners and chase out whoever underperform for less than a season ffs. as far as I concern, it is just fans like you who is trying to suggest ppl they should chase the Sedins and Burrows out of town, NOT the ownership or our gm. So don't give me this "it's business" bull because you are just a hockey fan. Thank you for acknowledging that I am a fan. I have been since these guys came into the league. You may not agree on how I see the world but drop the "fans like you" crap! You have no idea what kind of a fan I am or what I feel for this team. Just because my eyes don't tear up at the trade of Lu or the thought of moving the twins doesn't make me any less committed to this team. Players come and go...sometimes at their request, sometimes because of management. I can live with that. There's some great young players excited to be the next stars of this team and I look forward to seeing them develop, as painful as that may be at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papayas Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 Won't work for the same reason it didn't work with Naslund. You can't have 14m tied up in two second line players, who aren't performing. You have to get rid of them in order to move on. Even if you have to eat a bunch of salary. what? how does the Sedin and Burrows situation similar to Naslund in ANY way? The Sedins rely on their cycling, puck control, and ability the read the play in the NHL. Even as a second liner they will be a valuable asset for any team. Burrows is a player who can literally do anything you ask him to do even if he can't score. He will be a great third line player even if he regress. Naslund on the other hand rely on speed and sniping. It's far harder for him as he aged and injured.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuxfanabroad Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 I can't believe people are not as ANGRY as one would expect. We must all be suffering from 'beaten fan-syndrome', or some related trauma. FerGawdsakesNelly! They sign their freeken contracts then disappear like elite ninjas before the bloody ink can set! YES, they're great gents & have given us all a plethora of hilite-memories. But we CAN'T ALLOT 14 mill of cap space towards MEMORIES!!! Look how TBay acted with LeCav, who'd actually had his handle INSCRIBED as a champion. Are we going young here, or do we want to turn this into the 70 mill-produced v2.0 of the 'Lawrence Welk Show'!(miss that ol'chap!) Hey guys & girls, some of ya's are the ones payin' the bills-I know I'm not..it's not my $ going towards tix. So it's not as if I'd argue endlessly on this(just for perhaps, 43 mins) I just feel entitled to voice an opinion, as one who's cared about this team's fortunes since the dirty '70s..a sad time I vividly recollect(for you youngin's, that would be the historical era called "The Dusty, Dirty times". When the korean War flared on, & Nixon got promoted, despite torturing Lennon in the Oval office. Also the stock market crashed from excess fuel, & three bankrupt teams actually MERGED into our beloved Nuckers.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtganks Posted March 7, 2014 Author Share Posted March 7, 2014 I can't believe people are not as ANGRY as one would expect. We must all be suffering from 'beaten fan-syndrome', or some related trauma. FerGawdsakesNelly! They sign their freeken contracts then disappear like elite ninjas before the bloody ink can set! YES, they're great gents & have given us all a plethora of hilite-memories. But we CAN'T ALLOT 14 mill of cap space towards MEMORIES!!! Look how TBay acted with LeCav, who'd actually had his handle INSCRIBED as a champion. Are we going young here, or do we want to turn this into the 70 mill-produced v2.0 of the 'Lawrence Welk Show'!(miss that ol'chap!) Hey guys & girls, some of ya's are the ones payin' the bills-I know I'm not..it's not my $ going towards tix. So it's not as if I'd argue endlessly on this(just for perhaps, 43 mins) I just feel entitled to voice an opinion, as one who's cared about this team's fortunes since the dirty '70s..a sad time I vividly recollect(for you youngin's, that would be the historical era called "The Dusty, Dirty times". When the korean War flared on, & Nixon got promoted, despite torturing Lennon in the Oval office. Also the stock market crashed from excess fuel, & three bankrupt teams actually MERGED into our beloved Nuckers.) Exactly, we paid them for the past and for memories. I just hope we're not saddled with production like we're getting now for FOUR MORE YEARS! There has to be a way out. Wow, I would be thrilled if this offseason they both decided they're out for the rebuild and want to play at Modo at home. Cmon Nazzy. Call the twins and talk them into staying at home! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalky Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Exactly, we paid them for the past and for memories. I just hope we're not saddled with production like we're getting now for FOUR MORE YEARS! There has to be a way out. Wow, I would be thrilled if this offseason they both decided they're out for the rebuild and want to play at Modo at home. Cmon Nazzy. Call the twins and talk them into staying at home! What if scenarios keep you stuck in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laoag Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 sedins and burrows arent the problem... but going forward... bring in the young guys and get them playing and shape them into the new 1st line... over the years sedins and burrows will drop to the 2nd line and maybe a line centred by kesler becomes the first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RU SERIOUS Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 The first piece of the puzzle is to get a GM with some experience and vision. MG has not proven himself - rather rode the coat-tails of Nonis ands Burke. All he's done is play it safe and resigned the regulars - the only thing he knew to do. Nearly all his moves have been Fiasco's and he is now pretending to revitalize the team - something he should have started 3 years ago. Until he's gone with Tortelini this team is doomed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Kenobi Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 how does the Sedin and Burrows situation similar to Naslund in ANY way Marcus Naslund had 55 points the year he was finally traded. The Sedins together, only have 40, this season. Naslund was 35 when he was finished with the Canucks. The Sedin's decline is far more drastic and earlier than Naslund's. So you're right, the Sedins are nothing like Naslund. Naslund was a better player. The Sedins rely on their cycling, puck control, and ability the read the play in the NHL. Even as a second liner they will be a valuable asset for any team. Not at 7m per. They are just 3 points up from being top notch second line players, the line of which is 37 points now (and they both have 40). Burrows is a player who can literally do anything you ask him to do even if he can't score. Then you pay him a million. Naslund on the other hand rely on speed and sniping. It's far harder for him as he aged and injured. Naslund's worst season with the Canucks was better than the Twins this year. And he was older than the Twins too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Kenobi Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 sedins and burrows arent the problem Goalless as a tandem since the new year. They ARE the problem, and the solution is to trade them, eat cap space for a year and rebuild. Sedins are done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
van_ws Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Strip the "C" off Henrik. The Sedins don't care, they are only here to collect their paycheque. Gutless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdeath Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 The Sedins flatly aren't top line material anymore. The Canucks have the cap space to turn kesler + two free agents into a top line and the Sedins would be one of the scariest 2nd lines in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absent Canuck Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 It would be damaging to the franchise to move forward with the team in its current form. We need to rebuild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSniper88 Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Should rebuild around Kes but its not gonna happen since Gillis looks to be keeping the sedins and might trade kes in the offseason. In the coming years, stars like mackinnon, duchene will be way better than older sedins and its not gonna look pretty. see the thing is we can't rebuild properly without kesler traded he has the most trade value at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSniper88 Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 we have no real 1st line, sadly sedins are 2nd liners at best now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB007 Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 I think the Canucks are--and should be--married to the Sedins for the remainder of their deals (and for as long as the twins want to play in the NHL). I still believe that they will retire as #1 and #2 on the all time list of greatest Canucks. And I still feel strongly that they should play their entire NHL careers in Canucks colours. I also believe that the Sedins can rebound. I think Torts has realized that he needs to rethink their usage going forward. The Canucks were severely handcuffed this season. They were ill-prepared for the new CBA's cap reduction, having locked-up key players to contracts that committed most of their cap space to the existing group and left very little money to flesh out the roster and plug some apparent holes for the opening of the 2013-14 season. This team barely put together a full roster and needed to luck out with guys like Santorelli (until injured), Richardson, and Stanton. Their centre depth had been hurt badly by the loss of Malhotra, the Hodgson trade, and until recently, an very ineffective draft history in replenishing talent and building young depth (coupled with the trading away of too many draft picks). This led to the Canucks really needing to ride Hank and Kes heavily this year to have any hope of competing for a playoff spot. Kesler can (mostly) handle this kind of load over 82 games and remain effective (so long as he's not injured). Hank and Danny seemed to falter as we got deeper into the season. Although they'd previously been extremely durable workhorse types, and their conditioning remains among the best on the team, I think the Sedins' advanced age has led them to being vulnerable to breaking down over a long season if overused and not protected in the lineup. That's not saying they've declined to the degree that this season's production suggests but rather, that the Sedins need controlled usage (like AV's zone matching) more now than they did 5 years ago. This was not the point in the twins' careers to start playing them in all situations (O-zone/D-zone, PP/5v5/PK, etc) and at minutes well beyond 20:00 TOI/G. This is the time to start really managing their minutes and carefully controlling their game situational usage. Untimely injuries were certainly a factor. Unprecedented drops in shooting percentage and scoring production were something that no one predicted (at least to the degree we've seen). But I really feel like a good portion of what's happened this season (with the twins) comes down to their usage and their supporting cast (which also drives usage). To some degree, the thin forward group this season necessitated that the Sedins pitch-in more on defensive zone starts and needed to kill some penalties (although it really seems like Torts chose to take Hansen--the Canucks' former #1 PK forward--off of the penalty kill and give his SHTOI to the twins). Whatever the case, there was really no need to play the Sedins as "all situations" players on a game-in-and-game-out basis over an entire season. The twins need to have their usage tightly controlled. Play them at a high offensive zonestart percentage at 5v5 and on the PP. Only put them on the PK and in their own end when injuries necessitate such roles. I think this will be one of the lessons of this season. With adjustments, we should see the twins rebound. To what degree remains to be seen but I firmly believe that they'll have better, more productive seasons for 2014-15 and 2015-16. Burrows is another case. While he's a heart and soul guy, he's not as central to this team's core and identity as the twins. As much as it seems like it sometimes (to much of this fan base), the Canucks are not--and shouldn't be--married to Alex Burrows. Management and the coaches need to sit down and take a good hard look at if and where Burrows fits moving forward and what they expect his prognosis to be. They know more than any of us about what's going on with Alex. If it's truly just an awful season of injuries and his offensive futility in a mere aberration, then they should be patient and give him a chance to bounce back. But if the Canucks know, or suspect, that something is truly "wrong" with Burrows, then they need to think long and hard about getting away from his contract. We knew that Burrows would likely be "overpaid" under the terms of his new contract. He basically needed to be the twins' regular RW and push for 30 goals every season for him to be worth the money. I don't think anyone expected that Burrows would manage that kind of production (and role) over the life of his deal. But I think it was fair to expect him to pot around 20 goals per season, play a top role on the PK, play solid in both ends, give the Sedins a capable RW when needed, and otherwise move around the top-nine as a versatile player that could fill various needs. If he's now merely a decent defensive forward and penalty killer but basically a black hole on offense, then he's overpaid by roughly $3 million/season. I don't think it's as bad as it's looked but I'm worried that Alex will never get back to being the player that Canucks--especially given the goalscoring issues-- need him to be. And if that's the case, the time to deal with the issue is this offseason, while there is still a compliance buyout available. Quite a bit depends on whether the Canucks want to try for a quick re-tool or if they want to go full re-build. In a re-build, it doesn't hurt to keep Burrows because he's a great lockerroom guy, a true team player, and an leader on the ice. His production doesn't really matter if he's giving everything to this team every night and showing the young players what it means to be a true Canuck. But if the Vancouver wants to try to get back into contention quickly, they need to be getting value out of contracts like Burrows. His deal will never be a bargain. That said, I think we all expected that he'd only be moderately overpaid (and could justify the money because of the savings from his previous deal). I don't believe anyone could have foreseen what's been happening. It's very difficult to make sense of Burrows this season. I get that injuries can be setbacks but I've never seen a guy struggle like this (and I've heard a couple veteran NHL GMs comment that they've never seen anything like what's happened to Burrows). Hopefully, the Canucks know what's going on and they will be able to make the right prediction on where Burrows' future lies. But if 2013-14 Burrows is actually an indicator for his future, then the Canucks need to use their last compliance buyout to clear the remainder of Burrows' contract and free up a roster spot for a player who can help them score some goals. As far as Booth goes, they'd just have to either keep him for his last season or do whatever it takes to trade him (including salary retention). My hope is that this season proves to be an unfortunate statistical aberration and just a write-off year in the careers of guys like Burrows and Daniel. I recognize that there are some significant changes that need to be made before this team can compete again. I just think that a good portion of the lost offense (at the top of the lineup) could be recouped through the addition/change of a couple key player personnel and a few tweeks to the how the coaches utilize the roster. This is especially the case, IMHO, for the Sedins. I'm really not sure about Burrows (but I really like him alot--as a player and as a person--so I'm hoping for the best). Time will tell. You people +1 this post. He put a lot of rational effort into writing this. Most pro bloggers and journalists don't see things as straight as SID.IS.SID does. I agree with you 100%, especially about the Sedins being misused. I also want to add that I think management is a little over-obsessed with getting bigger over the last few years. In the process we have neglected skills, speed and hockey intelligence in our player selection. Letting go of guys like Samuelsson, CoHo and Raymond for Booth to Kassian and now Matthias made his bigger sure but actually less inept to win games.... And the Sedins still get bullied. AND we still don't scare anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronalds.Kenins41 Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Marcus Naslund had 55 points the year he was finally traded traded traded traded :picard: :picard: He left via free agency. Its okay a lot of people forget since Linden was leaving that year too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuxfanabroad Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 ^& if we'd kept the Raymond/Hodgson types, league goons would be encouraged to run them over. Sorry mate, it's a catch-22. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB007 Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 ^& if we'd kept the Raymond/Hodgson types, league goons would be encouraged to run them over. Sorry mate, it's a catch-22. Yep Raymond gets run over every night in Toronto. CoHo gets his ass kicked every night in Buffalo. No. The league is actually not made out of guys who try to kill other guys every night. Most players are quite civilized. And most skilled guys know how to stay out of trouble. We need enforcers to enforce, and I am personally glad we are getting bigger. I just feel that we are too single-mindedly, doing it at a great expense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Kenobi Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 He left via free agency. Its okay a lot of people forget since Linden was leaving that year too. Point still stands. Henrik Sedin is well off the pace of Naslund in his worst season with the team. The team would not have reached the SCF if Naslund had not been finally let go. What value are the Sedins providing the team? Leadership? Who exactly have they mentored that has turned out to be a solid player? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuxfanabroad Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Yep Raymond gets run over every night in Toronto. CoHo gets his ass kicked every night in Buffalo. No. The league is actually not made out of guys who try to kill other guys every night. Most players are quite civilized. And most skilled guys know how to stay out of trouble. We need enforcers to enforce, and I am personally glad we are getting bigger. I just feel that we are too single-mindedly, doing it at a great expense. Hanzal had a 3rd period that looked like a clip from 'The Warriors', so they tagged him for an expensive dinner-fine. We had the best bargain(league-wide) on Capgeek, so the league quickly snuffed that. Of no mind to debate, but I know a rigged deck by it's sight & smell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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