Ferguson, Missouri Grand Jury Decision Update: No Indictmen of Officer Who Shot Michael Brown

[Mr. Ambien]

Again you attack me not what i am stating.

WTF is your problem is your life so pathetic you have to attack me ?

It's not fair to the people that did the research, nor is it fair for people who think they'd be debating you, when in fact they're debating someone else's information you're passing off as your own. If you think this is a personal attack, power to you, this is no different than criticizing sources like people regularly do here. Feel free to take it as personal as you like. Plagiarism is not cool.

[Buddhas Hand]

Is that your life Ambien , checking other peoples post like some pathetic internet nazi , laughing my ass off at the joke you are

[Buddhas Hand]

It's not fair to the people that did the research, nor is it fair for people who think they'd be debating you, when in fact they're debating someone else's information you're passing off as your own. If you think this is a personal attack, power to you, this is no different than criticizing sources like people regularly do here. Feel free to take it as personal as you like. Plagiarism is not cool.

They are debating me you fool.

Where do you get your information from , out of thin air.

I did not copy or paste , that post was my own words.

what happened to blocking me if you just want to attack why don't you piss off .

[Mr. Ambien]

Is that your life Ambien , checking other peoples post like some pathetic internet nazi , laughing my ass off at the joke you are

It was really tough, see, I highlight a sentence, right click the text I highlighted, left click "Google search" on the text, and I find out in seconds that you're plagiarizing people.

And recall, from another thread:

http://forum.canucks.com/topic/363273-200-years-ago-today/page-2#entry12325016

Stop. They have a point and you know it. You quite obviously plagiarized this article:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/general-article/fdr-foreign/

You pulled a large amount of text directly from there, made small 'creative' alterations, failed to provide a link or attribution of any sort, and attempted to pass it off as your own. Don't do it again.

If you're going to copy and paste entire articles in lieu of actual discussion, please provide a summary paragraph and a link.

If you have no ability to convey an original thought, why the fuck are you discussing with people?

[Buddhas Hand]

It was really tough, see, I highlight a sentence, right click the text I highlighted, left click "Google search" on the text, and I find out in seconds that you're plagiarizing people.

And recall, from another thread:

http://forum.canucks.com/topic/363273-200-years-ago-today/page-2#entry12325016

If you have no ability to convey an original thought, why the frack are you discussing with people?

One sentence in that whole post used some information from an article i read , the "thought " behind my argument was mine.

I must have really got under your skin all those years ago.

[Tearloch7]

One sentence in that whole post used some information from an article i read , the "thought " behind my argument was mine.

I must have really got under your skin all those years ago.

I am one of the lucky ones .. he has me on 'ignore' ..

[Buddhas Hand]

I am one of the lucky ones .. he has me on 'ignore' ..

I am glad he seems to have grown a set and has the balls to reply to my posts rather than atttack me through other members posts as he was doing.

[Tearloch7]

I am glad he seems to have grown a set and has the balls to reply to my posts rather than atttack me through other members posts as he was doing.

He's bored at work .. say's it all .. take care and always consider the 'source'.

[Kragar]

The slavery was not a result of fighting amongst themselves it's because their leaders wanted the consumer goods the whites and the muslims before them were offering , they were trading/selling their people for goods.

From 869 muslim traders were selling goods to western african kingdoms who were paying for those goods with their own people, the whites continued this and also committed a lot of attrocities while in africa.

None of this changes the fact that whites have persecuted blacks for centuries and the United states took that persecution to another level -KKK as one example.

We hold these truths to be self evident , that all men are created equal , what a fracking joke

So, we basically agree on who did the enslaving, just not on the exact method of how the slaves were initially taken. I can live with that. The class I took was 5-6 years ago.

And before you go too far regarding the US's part in this, don't forget that it was the US and UK that also progressed to have the slave trade ended. Unfortunately, not enough other countries/cultures can say the same thing. Not only is racism not limited to American culture, I would argue the US is far from the most racist culture.

There is definitely room for improvement here. But the race card crutch needs to be cast aside, and people need to take responsibility for their lives and actions for the economic differences can improve. There are numerous successful black people, even outside of sports and entertainment. What makes them successful? Likely not sitting back blaming others for their lot in life.

[Buddhas Hand]

So, we basically agree on who did the enslaving, just not on the exact method of how the slaves were initially taken. I can live with that. The class I took was 5-6 years ago.

And before you go too far regarding the US's part in this, don't forget that it was the US and UK that also progressed to have the slave trade ended. Unfortunately, not enough other countries/cultures can say the same thing. Not only is racism not limited to American culture, I would argue the US is far from the most racist culture.

There is definitely room for improvement here. But the race card crutch needs to be cast aside, and people need to take responsibility for their lives and actions for the economic differences can improve. There are numerous successful black people, even outside of sports and entertainment. What makes them successful? Likely not sitting back blaming others for their lot in life.

The US was supposedly founded on the principal that all men were created equal , this was esconced in writing , the opening words of the declaration of indepence.

The US has never been a place where all men are treated equally , far from it in fact and actually it does not really matter what race you are there is so much injustice and inequality in a society that claims to be free.

Easy for you to state that the race card crutch needs to be cast aside , are you a member of a minority that has been persecuted for centuries , do you know how that feels , personally it would piss me off if i was.

[Tragoedia]

"This doesn't diminish what the traders did, nor those that bought from them. But it was another black man that initially put each black African slave into bondage, and sold him/her as property."

I'd like a link to that. If only because it seems such a definitive statement.

Slavery in Africa predates the European colonists arrival. It was already a longstanding tradition to enslave ones enemies. The Europeans saw this as a cheap form of labour and used them in their colonies. Originally, there was not much of a racial component, and it was purely economical (not saying Europeans weren't racist, but it was not racially driven), but as time wore on it became harder and harder to justify slavery so it became legally codified that having dark skin was representative of ones status.

Over time the oppression of specifically black men and women increased as a result of the justifications used to keep slavery. Even still, slavers were still commonly African (black) men seeking to profit off the extremely lucrative slave trade markets (both the Atlantic and Arabic) who sold to foreigners.

The point of this is to show that the original intent was cheap labour and financial gain and not necessarily racism itself that sparked the African slave trade, and that the racism was a byproduct of slavery. Of course this is in no way a justification of slavery, as doing evil for money is no better than doing evil for racial supremacy. The ripple effects of the slave trade have been enormous and catastrophic, being felt still to this day as evident in Missouri.

If you want my sources, I can't find them at the moment (laziness ) but I found them while taking a Uni course on the subject. I read the primary sources. But those claims probably won't satisfy you so your best bet is probably to just look at the wiki page. I realize it's just wikipedia but it will show that I'm not just blowing smoke.

On topic, the police force's handling of these issues has been egregious. They have been quite revealing of their practices and attitudes towards certain members of society. I don't even personally care about M. Brown or whether he was innocent or not because that is a distraction from the larger issue at hand: systemic racism within the justice and law systems, police brutality, and a lack of accountability (and even a presence of sanctioned criminal conduct) on the part of law enforcement officers.

[Tragoedia]

The slavery was not a result of fighting amongst themselves it's because their leaders wanted the consumer goods the whites and the muslims before them were offering , they were trading/selling their people for goods.

From 869 muslim traders were selling goods to western african kingdoms who were paying for those goods with their own people, the whites continued this and also committed a lot of attrocities while in africa.

None of this changes the fact that whites have persecuted blacks for centuries and the United states took that persecution to another level -KKK as one example.

We hold these truths to be self evident , that all men are created equal , what a fracking joke

Slavery was not some new concept. Slavery has existed basically as long as we have organized into large groups. The African slave trade was already a massive thing before Europeans took part in it. There were many significant kingdoms and civilizations within Africa at the time and slavery was already an established institution. What the Europeans and those in the Middle East (just as guilty) did was make that market lucrative. They exploited the system and basically made it explode. They used economics to justify a lot of their actions, and when those were questioned they moved to racial arguments.

The point of this is not to excuse Europeans (white people) for their actions. Slavery in the US (and other countries like Brazil who didn't outlaw slavery until 1888) became monstrous institutions. There is no denying that. The people who benefited most from the slave trade were white. There is no denying that. But it is not a minor footnote to point out that slavery has basically received participation from nearly every ethnic group on the planet at some time or another. This in no way denies the fact that racism has been used as a tool of systematic oppression of the "other" cultural groups within the USA.

[Buddhas Hand]

Slavery was not some new concept. Slavery has existed basically as long as we have organized into large groups. The African slave trade was already a massive thing before Europeans took part in it. There were many significant kingdoms and civilizations within Africa at the time and slavery was already an established institution. What the Europeans and those in the Middle East (just as guilty) did was make that market lucrative. They exploited the system and basically made it explode. They used economics to justify a lot of their actions, and when those were questioned they moved to racial arguments.

The point of this is not to excuse Europeans (white people) for their actions. Slavery in the US (and other countries like Brazil who didn't outlaw slavery until 1888) became monstrous institutions. There is no denying that. The people who benefited most from the slave trade were white. There is no denying that. But it is not a minor footnote to point out that slavery has basically received participation from nearly every ethnic group on the planet at some time or another. This in no way denies the fact that racism has been used as a tool of systematic oppression of the "other" cultural groups within the USA.

What other society that enslaved blacks still treats them as badly as the US does , that they are more likely to be shot , killed or locked up by the police in ?

[Tragoedia]

So, we basically agree on who did the enslaving, just not on the exact method of how the slaves were initially taken. I can live with that. The class I took was 5-6 years ago.

And before you go too far regarding the US's part in this, don't forget that it was the US and UK that also progressed to have the slave trade ended. Unfortunately, not enough other countries/cultures can say the same thing. Not only is racism not limited to American culture, I would argue the US is far from the most racist culture.

There is definitely room for improvement here. But the race card crutch needs to be cast aside, and people need to take responsibility for their lives and actions for the economic differences can improve. There are numerous successful black people, even outside of sports and entertainment. What makes them successful? Likely not sitting back blaming others for their lot in life.

It might not be the most racist anymore, but that is in no way a glowing endorsement. That's like bragging how you don't have the highest murder rate but are well below countries that are years behind in economic and institutional development. The fact is the US is well behind the top ranking countries in equality.

I think it's a balancing act. Some people use the race card in inappropriate places but that should not devalue the fear that many black men feel when dealing with law enforcement and legal institutions. They are, by definition, systemically marginalized by the justice system. That is not a minor thing.

I also wouldn't put too much stock in the US abolished slavery situation. The UK did it much earlier (within their own borders that is, they had an attitude towards slavery very similar to our Western attitude towards labour in India and China today). Also an important note is that one half of the country abolished slavery much sooner than the other half. Many Southerners still believed in slavery for many decades after that (some still do sadly). Also, abolishing slavery was only the first step towards equality. Most Americans who supported abolishing slavery did not believe in equality. They just thought slavery was barbaric.

It has been a long and arduous path towards equality regardless of skin tone, but the US is not there yet. When the supreme majority of people realize race is simply melanin content then we will be on our way.

[Tragoedia]

What other society that enslaved blacks still treats them as badly as the US does , that they are more likely to be shot , killed or locked up by the police in ?

It doesn't matter. The fact is the US has a systemic problem with institutionalized racial discrimination within the justice system. It doesn't matter if the US is the worst, or just middle of the pack, as that's a distraction from the issue. The issue is real and present, and that is there is real discrimination against those who are perceived to be black.

[GLASSJAW]

anyone post this yet

LMAo

[Mr. Ambien]

It doesn't matter. The fact is the US has a systemic problem with institutionalized racial discrimination within the justice system. It doesn't matter if the US is the worst, or just middle of the pack, as that's a distraction from the issue. The issue is real and present, and that is there is real discrimination against those who are perceived to be black.

What institutionalized racism are you talking specifically about, that American society as a whole can realistically do something about?

[Tragoedia]

What institutionalized racism are you talking specifically about, that American society as a whole can realistically do something about?

The police force and justice system. What can be done is the various police departments need to be held accountable for their actions. Currently what is happening is they are given nearly free reign to "police" with near impunity.

[Kragar]

What other society that enslaved blacks still treats them as badly as the US does , that they are more likely to be shot , killed or locked up by the police in ?

Who comprises the more likely shooters/killers of blacks in America? Wanna take a guess? (psst... it's blacks, by a wide margin)

Why don't Jackson and Sharpton make as much noise about black on black violence as they do white on black violence? Care to make a guess there too? Tough choice between money and power, so that question is a little tougher.

It would be a better world if people like Jackson and Sharpton were more worried about a safer, more productive world for the black community than their own pockets.

I agree there are some issues with some members of the police. However, I heard on the radio today (no source was given) that there are twice as many whites killed by cops than blacks (unsure of the timeframe in question). That's not in alignment with the population spread as a whole (I'm guessing about 5 whites for each black in the US, but this is top of my head), but considering a black is more likely to be engaged by police, per your comment, that makes it a pretty significant detail.

And, specific to the two cases in the news lately, both of the deceased were resisting arrest (obviously more so with Brown). It would be curious to know how many lives would be saved if people did not resist arrest. If there was no struggle, Brown and Gardner would still be alive today. And if the arrests were somehow proven racially motivated, then punishment to the cops would be justified. And Brown and Gardner could be making more noise about it than they are now.

(Actually, I don't even remember if Brown resisted arrest or if he made his move before being arrested. Regardless, his own actions got him killed.)

[Mr. Ambien]

The police force and justice system. What can be done is the various police departments need to be held accountable for their actions. Currently what is happening is they are given nearly free reign to "police" with near impunity.

I agree, but what does this have to do with institutionalized racism, rather than a police state?