Jiggs50 Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 I actually can't believe people are still arguing about this. Stop being such girls... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckamo Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Mental? You mean physical right? Am I now to pretend that women are as physically adept as men now? When did this happen, exactly? And if it's true why aren't half of NHLers women? Same question re the NFL No, he meant mental. That was the implication of the comment: that women whine when they need to work hard. Bitter Melons, I'm not nearly as offended by the comment as you seem to think I am. All I'm saying is that we aren't misconstruing what he is saying because that's where the saying came from in the first place. I'm not at all blaming Reilly for using the phrase, I'd guess that if a reporter asked him up front to clarify he would say that he meant no offence to women (and I would believe him). It's just something everyone says without thinking about what it really implies. It's a bit like the term "the -itis" when used to describe drowsiness after eating. People don't use it to be offensive, but few stop to think about what it really means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejazz97 Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 What do you propose we use instead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejazz97 Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Just because women are treated worse elsewhere doesn't mean we should stop trying to correct lesser issues in our own country. I was thinking the same thing. Let the problems that are the worst be top priority: hunger, poverty, human rights. I'm not saying women's rights aren't a priority, it's just we should work harder on getting the problems where people are actually dying over it solved first. Then we can take a longer and larger look at women's rights and bring equality The initial point is true. We shouldn't use "woman" or "girly" or "the P word that also means cat" etc as words for being weak etc. It has a negative connotation/is derogatory towards women. Sometimes its hard to stop using this kinds of words along with homophobic ones used in a similar manner simply because its so ingrained in young male vocabs. They get desensitized to it because they hear it so often that they don't even think of what it really means. It's something everyone should stop doing. Pretty much all the rest of her points were garbage though That "P-word that also means cat" is short for pusillanimous. It means cowardly, if I'm not mistaken. It's not derogatory originally (except for the obvious meaning that one is weak, which isn't derogatory if it's a fact - I'm rabbit-trailing), but it can be used as such. One way to solve this is to be respectful with your words. Not saying you have to be "PC" but just try to respect people, don't get angry or offended quickly, and try and work towards a solution that works for both parties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckamo Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 What do you propose we use instead? "we're here to work hard, not whine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejazz97 Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 "we're here to work hard, not whine" If someone's frustrated, they most likely aren't going to say that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckamo Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 If someone's frustrated, they most likely aren't going to say that. Why not? When I was younger I had a tendency to say things like, "that's gay" or "that's retarded". Then I stopped and thought about what they really meant and now I don't say them, even when I'm frustrated or in my worst moods. Like I said before I'm not blaming Morgan Reilly for what he said because it's just something people say, especially in the heat of the moment. I just think if people stopped to think about what they were saying and what was being implied then they would reconsider using certain phrases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejazz97 Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Why not? When I was younger I had a tendency to say things like, "that's gay" or "that's retarded". Then I stopped and thought about what they really meant and now I don't say them, even when I'm frustrated or in my worst moods. Like I said before I'm not blaming Morgan Reilly for what he said because it's just something people say, especially in the heat of the moment. I just think if people stopped to think about what they were saying and what was being implied then they would reconsider using certain phrases. People need to relate to things. Like Morgan Rielly said, "You're not here to be a girl about it." It's not like he's intentionally blaming the entire female gender, like you said. Humans are created as relative beings. Give them something weak to relate to other than women, because women aren't viewed as weak anymore. Give them, I don't know, a baby animal. Never mind, that will offend someone. Anyway. People need to relate to things, so give them something that they can relate to that won't force people to have these kinds of conversations but can still get the point across. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilduce39 Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Whenever these topics pop up, I see MOST of the "PC" side attempting to engage in intelligent, respectful discussion over language and the consideration of other peoples viewpoints. Then I see the backlash of people acting (ironically) over-sensitive to being informed what they said wasn't appreciated by someone else. I find this group should take their own advice and "get over it" for once. Or at least own their words. Sometimes I say ignorant/boneheaded/rude comments in certain company in an attempt to be funny... (Which I usually am) But in the odd case where I cross the line I'm not obnoxiously self centred enough to expect others should simply remain quiet if it does bother them. Honestly I'd prefer to know. I might not be overly contrite, but I'd like to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etsen3 Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Mental? You mean physical right? Am I now to pretend that women are as physically adept as men now? When did this happen, exactly? And if it's true why aren't half of NHLers women? Same question re the NFL Nice straw man, way to put words in my mouth. As ckamo pointed out, if I would have meant physical, I would have said physical. No, I said mental, because Rielly's original comments were referring to attitude and hard work, not physical skill. I don't know where you got all that other crap from. Anyways, he made a mistake, apologized, and learned his lesson, so I think we can all forgive him. Just wanted to point out that his comments were in fact rude towards women and I can understand why people were pissed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejazz97 Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 I'm not obnoxiously self centred enough to expect others should simply remain quiet if it does bother them. Honestly I'd prefer to know. I might not be overly contrite, but I'd like to know. That's an excellent way of putting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BI3KSA- Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Let the problems that are the worst be top priority: hunger, poverty, human rights. I'm not saying women's rights aren't a priority, it's just we should work harder on getting the problems where people are actually dying over it solved first. Then we can take a longer and larger look at women's rights and bring equality Why can't we work on both at the same time? Are we limited? Do we need to choose one or the other? I don't think so, so lets stop making it an excuse for not fixing something in our own backyard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejazz97 Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Why can't we work on both at the same time? Are we limited? Do we need to choose one or the other? I don't think so, so lets stop making it an excuse for not fixing something in our own backyard. We can work on both, I'm just saying more emphasis should be placed on saving lives. Work on women's rights. Fight for them. But we can't turn our faces away from greater problems that are in our own backyard. While women are gaining rights - which is great - the homeless stay homeless, the poor stay poor, and the dying stay dying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BI3KSA- Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 We can work on both, I'm just saying more emphasis should be placed on saving lives. Work on women's rights. Fight for them. But we can't turn our faces away from greater problems that are in our own backyard. While women are gaining rights - which is great - the homeless stay homeless, the poor stay poor, and the dying stay dying. I don't think anyone is saying we should take the emphasis off of that and put it on offensive phrases. I doubt anyone would disagree with your sentiment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustapha Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Very interesting that you would equate asking people to demonstrate the level of emotional intelligence and empathy we ask of preschoolers with "punishment." Interesting as well that you both defend using gender biased language as "innocent" AND acknowledge that it is used because of people's "ideas about gender." It's not really innocent, merely accidentally implying something not really intended, if it's purposefully expressing an idea about gender, now is it? But, okay. Let's see how your way works. Put your "toughen up and deal" attitude into practice. Instead of just telling others that they don't have the right to be offended by anything that you aren't personally offended by, even if you're not offended because it had little or nothing to do with you and you fail to recognize that your personal experiences and feelings are not the only ones that exist or matter, why don't you show us how it's done and just not complain that you're offended that we're offended at being insulted in a way that perpetuates negative attitudes and biases that feed into a biased culture, resulting in very real negative effects in our daily lives? I am not offended that you are offended, rather, I recognize that you have the right to feel however you want regarding another individual's personal opinions or statements and encourage you to express those feelings. "I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." - Voltaire The only thing I find 'offensive' about this whole fiasco is the presumption that certain words and ideas are not okay. I am in control of my life, and nothing anyone says about me or my gender is going to affect what I do with my life. I can choose to let someone's else opinions affect me, or not. To say otherwise is to deny the individual's ability (at least in the developed world) to their own self-determination. Everyone will be judged by another at some point, whether it be by race, gender, appearance, material possessions, etc. I find it self-serving and somewhat delusional to believe that individuals cannot overcome these obstacles should they wish to. The idea reeks of professional victimhood, another idea I do not subscribe to. “My own opinion is enough for me, and I claim the right to have it defended against any consensus, any majority, anywhere, any place, any time. And anyone who disagrees with this can pick a number, get in line, and kiss my ass.” ― Christopher Hitchens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejazz97 Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Everyone will be judged by another at some point, whether it be by race, gender, appearance, material possessions, etc. I find it self-serving and somewhat delusional to believe that individuals cannot overcome these obstacles should they wish to. The idea reeks of professional victimhood, another idea I do not subscribe to. 100% agree. Also, though, if you get offended and angry about every little thing that might possibly be regarded as "derogatory", you end up living with grudges, and holding anger and bitterness against people can ruin you and be detrimental to your health and mental stability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BI3KSA- Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 I am not offended that you are offended, rather, I recognize that you have the right to feel however you want regarding another individual's personal opinions or statements and encourage you to express those feelings. "I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." - Voltaire The only thing I find 'offensive' about this whole fiasco is the presumption that certain words and ideas are not okay. I am in control of my life, and nothing anyone says about me or my gender is going to affect what I do with my life. I can choose to let someone's else opinions affect me, or not. To say otherwise is to deny the individual's ability (at least in the developed world) to their own self-determination. Everyone will be judged by another at some point, whether it be by race, gender, appearance, material possessions, etc. I find it self-serving and somewhat delusional to believe that individuals cannot overcome these obstacles should they wish to. The idea reeks of professional victimhood, another idea I do not subscribe to. “My own opinion is enough for me, and I claim the right to have it defended against any consensus, any majority, anywhere, any place, any time. And anyone who disagrees with this can pick a number, get in line, and kiss my ass.” ― Christopher Hitchens Certain words and ideas are not okay though. Racism, sexism and many other things aren't OK and should be actively fought against. The issue is less so that something someone says will effect what you or someone else does with their life, and more so that it perpetuates an opinion that one gender or group is inferior and that shapes how society treats people. You don't have to look far to see that in effect right now. Can people overcome bias and inequality? Sure, and no one is saying they can't. But the whole point is that they shouldn't have to. This is such a minor thing and such a tiny piece of the overall picture that we can all easily fix with the tiniest amount of effort, and I think we should do just that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejazz97 Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Certain words and ideas are not okay though. Racism, sexism and many other things aren't OK and should be actively fought against. The issue is less so that something someone says will effect what you or someone else does with their life, and more so that it perpetuates an opinion that one gender or group is inferior and that shapes how society treats people. You don't have to look far to see that in effect right now. Can people overcome bias and inequality? Sure, but the whole point is that they shouldn't have to. This is such a minor thing and such a tiny piece of the overall picture that we can all easily fix with the tiniest amount of effort, and I think we should do just that. Don't want anyone to get any misconceptions, but bias is only bad when it's hateful. People shouldn't stop being opinionated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BI3KSA- Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Why not? When I was younger I had a tendency to say things like, "that's gay" or "that's retarded". Then I stopped and thought about what they really meant and now I don't say them, even when I'm frustrated or in my worst moods. Like I said before I'm not blaming Morgan Reilly for what he said because it's just something people say, especially in the heat of the moment. I just think if people stopped to think about what they were saying and what was being implied then they would reconsider using certain phrases. This completely hits the nail on the head. It's so easy to just grow up and actually take a second to realize what you are saying and what it means. No one is asking anyone to walk on eggshells lest they accidentally say a phrase that could somehow be misconstrued as derogatory. No, what people are asking is that you think about what you are saying and try not to say stuff that obviously has derogatory implication. The exact same argument could be made against homophobic derogatory statements that are commonplace in society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BI3KSA- Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Don't want anyone to get any misconceptions, but bias is only bad when it's hateful. People shouldn't stop being opinionated. Obviously in this context its bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.