Crabcakes Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 That's when I question what is going outside of hockey with Kassian? Why does a team "cut bait" on a guy with those tools? Plus no other teams want him! There is more here than only his hockey performance. IMO. I think my argument is compelling enough without speculating about his off ice exploits. There are many rumours but we don't really need to go there. He has the tools but he rarely uses them. Potential is meaningless if you never get there. That's our Zack. For what it's worth, there probably is something to all the rumours and it very well may be a factor. I know that Benning took very little in return for Kassian and you have to wonder why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeslerPlaysLikeACanadian Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 I think my argument is compelling enough without speculating about his off ice exploits. There are many rumours but we don't really need to go there. He has the tools but he rarely uses them. Potential is meaningless if you never get there. That's our Zack. For what it's worth, there probably is something to all the rumours and it very well may be a factor. I know that Benning took very little in return for Kassian and you have to wonder why. It can ONLY be incompetence. NOT THE FIFTH ROUNDER!!!!!!!! NNNNNOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Light Racicot Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 What drives me nuts is how Benning throws in additional assets when the return is already questionable. Why is this guy such a deer caught in the headlights?! Its like he cant help himself. He sees something he likes and makes unreasonable sacrifices value-wise to get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crabcakes Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 What drives me nuts is how Benning throws in additional assets when the return is already questionable. Why is this guy such a deer caught in the headlights?! Its like he cant help himself. He sees something he likes and makes tremendous sacrifices value-wise to get it. Because Bergevin says to Benning, "You know, Jim, I'm doing you a great favour here. I think we're going to end up waiving him so you'd better throw in some kind of asset, a draft pick, just so we don't end up effectively giving Prustie away for nothing......otherwise, there's no deal" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeslerPlaysLikeACanadian Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Does anyone remember Prust going to free agency and being courted by half the league, getting a huge deal in a reflection of that perception of value? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crabcakes Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 now you're going to say it's all perception? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeslerPlaysLikeACanadian Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 now you're going to say it's all perception? No, I am saying Prust is valued by GMs. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Well let's see, overly literal, stubborn, hard-headed, humourless, focused on mincing details, refusing to meet someone in the middle....maybe there's a better word. You know exactly what I meant, and you're like, "that's not a literal quote!" There is no arguing with amnesia. Are now going to tell me that Kassian wasn't a running storyline? Why do we all remember guys being asked questions about the big goof? Pedantic means obsessed with small details. the disagreement that you and I have is whether Benning was being honest when he said that Zack was playing better and doing what was asked of him before the injury. Hardly a small detail, IMHO. I remember one comment from a Canuck player about Kassian and couple from the coach and management. Perhaps we have a differing opinion on what "every game" means. No wonder you are so mad. You can't put 2 and 2 together so you think that Benning traded a valuable sought after asset with no baggage. Poor guy. I'm not mad at all. As far as I know, we're having a discussion here and I am more than able to carry one on without getting mad. The rest of your post is pure strawman. I made no such claims. Only that the return was so poor and Kassian's value was so low, that the trade should not have been made at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeslerPlaysLikeACanadian Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Finally, I'm not using Benning's words as "proof". I'm taking them at face value. You, OTOH, are suggesting that he wasn't being honest, even though you have nothing factual to base that opinion on. Sure you're not. The King of Semantics. You just based an entire argument on his public statements, and you tell us he doesn't strike you as a liar. I guess I need to post that Pretzel Logic picture again. "It's face value, not proof!" - You're definitely not obsessed with small details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Sure you're not. The King of Semantics. You just based an entire argument on his public statements, and you tell us he doesn't strike you as a liar. I guess I need to post that Pretzel Logic picture again. "It's face value, not proof!" - You're definitely not obsessed with small details. Differentiating between taking someone at their word and proof is not a "small detail", IMO. Something we'll have to agree to disagree on, I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeslerPlaysLikeACanadian Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Differentiating between taking someone at their word and proof is not a "small detail", IMO. Something we'll have to agree to disagree on, I suppose. I know what you mean man, but I think you need to dial down the literalism. Calling out a paraphrase for not being a direct quote is a pedantic style of arguing. Anyone can see that you didn't mean "proof beyond all reasonable doubt", though obviously you meant "strong enough to base an argument on". Obviously not enough to condemn him in a court of law, but enough for the court of your public opinion. (Splitting hairs). Your disappointment at the trade is understandable, but I don't think that your reasoning is sound. But yes I agree, no need to keep flogging this mule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notafan Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Here lies the BIGGEST problem with ALL Canucks fans, Media dumb asses and the like. You read too much into stupid stories made up by morons from Ontario. 1. The Leafs will NOT (once again) make the playoffs. 2. The Canucks will NOT make the playoffs. All those who have fallen vitim to the Canucks' corporate BS deserves to get the result they hope for. The Lie: Players who no longer fit the new system in Vancouver were traded/not resigned to make way for the new players acquired (i.e. Sutter, Prust, Bartkowski, etc.). The truth: Benning/Linden have by all accounts done virtually nothing to improve the team. They have given players away for poor returns (draft picks) and signed many to ridiculous contracts unbecoming their talent (on ANY team) (Prust, Sutter, Bartkowski, etc.). They have failed to fill necessary positions with TALENTED players (Franon). Relying on aged players to continue producing numbers far beyond their years (Ryan, Sedins, Burrows, Higgins, Hamhuis, etc.). So, here is the REAL question: If Benning/Linden truly are trying to improve the team by getting younger talented players, why haven't they. Typical Canuck management. No matter who we manage to get, its the same old thing; we give up quality or high picks to get other teams' non-desirable or lack-lustre players and sign them to unpresidented contracts. They usually bottom out and we get stuck paying some bum for the next 5+ years. The problem with these players is that we can't get rid of them because we can't find another team stupid enough to take them off our hands (not unless we throw in high draft picks to sweeten the deal - and even then we get !@#$% in return). Face it, the Canucks are the NHL's joke. Want to get rid of your garbage?, trade them to Vancouver, we'll take them. Rebuild -- don't belive the BS about not rebuilding. Its happening right now. Its going to take a few years, so expect the Canucks to be like Edmonton and Arizona (no playoffs for a while). So GET OVER IT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hearditall Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 All you people who think Kassian is going to be the next Neely settle down cause you'll have years to bash Benning. But if he crumbles away we'll never here from U... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madwolf Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 There is no value in holding a GM, Coach, or President to "his word" on a player. This is the big leagues, and there is "coach speak" all over the place. No one is going to come out and run down one of their assets they're trying to trade away. How foolish would it have been if Benning came out and said: "Kassian just hasn't been the player we expected him to be. He has character issues off of the ice, and he has trouble focusing on the ice. I just don't think he's ever going to put it all together. By the way, he's available. Any takers?" You absolutely cannot take these guys at their words. They're in a business of deception against every other team in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Here lies the BIGGEST problem with ALL Canucks fans, Media dumb asses and the like. You read too much into stupid stories made up by morons from Ontario. 1. The Leafs will NOT (once again) make the playoffs. 2. The Canucks will NOT make the playoffs. All those who have fallen vitim to the Canucks' corporate BS deserves to get the result they hope for. The Lie: Players who no longer fit the new system in Vancouver were traded/not resigned to make way for the new players acquired (i.e. Sutter, Prust, Bartkowski, etc.). The truth: Benning/Linden have by all accounts done virtually nothing to improve the team. They have given players away for poor returns (draft picks) and signed many to ridiculous contracts unbecoming their talent (on ANY team) (Prust, Sutter, Bartkowski, etc.). They have failed to fill necessary positions with TALENTED players (Franon). Relying on aged players to continue producing numbers far beyond their years (Ryan, Sedins, Burrows, Higgins, Hamhuis, etc.). So, here is the REAL question: If Benning/Linden truly are trying to improve the team by getting younger talented players, why haven't they. Typical Canuck management. No matter who we manage to get, its the same old thing; we give up quality or high picks to get other teams' non-desirable or lack-lustre players and sign them to unpresidented contracts. They usually bottom out and we get stuck paying some bum for the next 5+ years. The problem with these players is that we can't get rid of them because we can't find another team stupid enough to take them off our hands (not unless we throw in high draft picks to sweeten the deal - and even then we get !@#$% in return). Face it, the Canucks are the NHL's joke. Want to get rid of your garbage?, trade them to Vancouver, we'll take them. Rebuild -- don't belive the BS about not rebuilding. Its happening right now. Its going to take a few years, so expect the Canucks to be like Edmonton and Arizona (no playoffs for a while). So GET OVER IT! I read this several times. I'm sorry, but I just don't get your message. Is our management inept? Is our management sneaky? Did our management only have crap to work with, so the result could be no different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crabcakes Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Here lies the BIGGEST problem with ALL Canucks fans, Media dumb asses and the like. You read too much into stupid stories made up by morons from Ontario. 1. The Leafs will NOT (once again) make the playoffs. 2. The Canucks will NOT make the playoffs. All those who have fallen vitim to the Canucks' corporate BS deserves to get the result they hope for. The Lie: Players who no longer fit the new system in Vancouver were traded/not resigned to make way for the new players acquired (i.e. Sutter, Prust, Bartkowski, etc.). The truth: Benning/Linden have by all accounts done virtually nothing to improve the team. They have given players away for poor returns (draft picks) and signed many to ridiculous contracts unbecoming their talent (on ANY team) (Prust, Sutter, Bartkowski, etc.). They have failed to fill necessary positions with TALENTED players (Franon). Relying on aged players to continue producing numbers far beyond their years (Ryan, Sedins, Burrows, Higgins, Hamhuis, etc.). So, here is the REAL question: If Benning/Linden truly are trying to improve the team by getting younger talented players, why haven't they. Typical Canuck management. No matter who we manage to get, its the same old thing; we give up quality or high picks to get other teams' non-desirable or lack-lustre players and sign them to unpresidented contracts. They usually bottom out and we get stuck paying some bum for the next 5+ years. The problem with these players is that we can't get rid of them because we can't find another team stupid enough to take them off our hands (not unless we throw in high draft picks to sweeten the deal - and even then we get !@#$% in return). Face it, the Canucks are the NHL's joke. Want to get rid of your garbage?, trade them to Vancouver, we'll take them. Rebuild -- don't belive the BS about not rebuilding. Its happening right now. Its going to take a few years, so expect the Canucks to be like Edmonton and Arizona (no playoffs for a while). So GET OVER IT! I agree with your first 2 lines and your last 2 lines. In between you paint yourself as a victim of a conspiracy. Sorry, there is no conspiracy. This Canuck administration is not the same as the last Canuck administration or the one before that or the one before that and so on..... Management answers to the owner (he's the one who pay's for all this). If the owner isn't happy with management, he can fire them all and find somebody else to do the job. Linden and Benning are both doing a good job. Not perfect but overall the Canucks are moving in the right direction. The team has some unique problems and some very good assets which is why a lot of people, I think, don't understand what they're doing. They are adding some good young players and they are adding some players to keep the Canucks competitive after the old guys retire. This will keep us fans happy until the young players are ready to lead the team. Be patient, it's going to take a few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crabcakes Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 No, I am saying Prust is valued by GMs. ? kidding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UFCanuck Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 My feeling really have nothing to do with Prust. I believe that players like him are available as free agents on a regular basis. It's my opinion that the Canucks gave a 5th round pick away, just to get rid of a guy that they didn't like. As I said, poor asset management. Sometimes you have to pay other people to take away your garbage. We didn't pay much, a 5th round pick is easily recoverable if JB likes someone at the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeslerPlaysLikeACanadian Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 You absolutely cannot take these guys at their words. He didn't say "at their words", he said "face value". C'mon, stop strawmanning this guy already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeslerPlaysLikeACanadian Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 kidding : :D Impossible to tell. If I hadn't written "perception", people would have went nuts about whether or not he had value. I just tried a sarcasm post. We'll see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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