(Discussion)..Take on a Contract 'Dog'?

[Nuxfanabroad]

Realizing this was talked about endlessly, after the new CBA buyout-concept was intro'd. Wondering if there's any point in considering the approach now? Essentially taking on a lame contract, but landing a key prospect in turn.

With a team like Philly playing so poorly, you'd think they'd consider all options?

What we need is an emerging, young, star D-man, & they've got a surplus: Provorov, Sanheim, Hagg & Morin, to name a few. So it's plausible that they could part with one, if we met their needs? Certainly they need to open cap space.

If we open up cap in other deals(eg:Hamhuis, Vrbs, for picks, etc...), should we consider using the available space this way-as opposed to chasing UFA's next summer?

I'm not up on the progress of Philly's young D. Would appreciate comments as to which one might suit our needs best. Or are there any they'd be more apt to deal?

Example: we send a package with some contract(Higgins); youth(Jensen or Baer) & a pick(not a 1st, unsure of the value here?)

They send a Provorov/Sanheim-type, & onerous contract(eg:Umberger, 2 yrs left at 4.6 mill AAV).

Since it takes so long to develop drafted D, is it also worth consideration, in that we receive a kid who's already a couple yrs past his draft?

Lastly, are there any other teams we might pitch this notion to?(eg: Winn, Wash, NJ...)

[Ryan Strome]

You are right we talked a lot about this concept but for the most part no teams have been forced into it. I totally get what you're saying however I think teams would take a lesser player and shed a million or 2 of cap if the duration of the term left isn't that long.

 

Your example was Rj so using Rj as an example I think Philly takes a lesser player in trade and saves a million in cap and keeps their top prospects.

Unfortunately the League has to many teams that spend to little which makes your scenario unlikely in my opinion.

[Hairy Kneel]

Hmm..interesting. I like the idea of exploring options that don't rely on on the obvious player considerations.

[Nuxfanabroad]

^You're probably right on that RS, but there are quite a few teams that budget well under the cap(intentional ceiling), so they might not consider anything creative.

In Van's case, in using their cap this way, they're basically expediting the shift towards the future. I'm not sure how many franchises will accept allotting cap outflow,  for the distant(not immediate) benefit.

With our current makeup(vets, 1-2 yrs from fading out; coupled with green kids on ELC's), it might be an ideal franchise to go for such a deal.

[Toews]

The Flyers are rebuilding and their blue line is AHL caliber. They do have some terrible contracts but I doubt they would move their best prospects just to move salary.

[Alflives]

Realizing this was talked about endlessly, after the new CBA buyout-concept was intro'd. Wondering if there's any point in considering the approach now? Essentially taking on a lame contract, but landing a key prospect in turn.

With a team like Philly playing so poorly, you'd think they'd consider all options?

What we need is an emerging, young, star D-man, & they've got a surplus: Provorov, Sanheim, Hagg & Morin, to name a few. So it's plausible that they could part with one, if we met their needs? Certainly they need to open cap space.

If we open up cap in other deals(eg:Hamhuis, Vrbs, for picks, etc...), should we consider using the available space this way-as opposed to chasing UFA's next summer?

I'm not up on the progress of Philly's young D. Would appreciate comments as to which one might suit our needs best. Or are there any they'd be more apt to deal?

Example: we send a package with some contract(Higgins); youth(Jensen or Baer) & a pick(not a 1st, unsure of the value here?)

They send a Provorov/Sanheim-type, & onerous contract(eg:Umberger, 2 yrs left at 4.6 mill AAV).

Since it takes so long to develop drafted D, is it also worth consideration, in that we receive a kid who's already a couple yrs past his draft?

Lastly, are there any other teams we might pitch this notion to?(eg: Winn, Wash, NJ...)

sounds great, but what are the chances we get their top D prospect in return?  Think of it this way: the league shares revenue, so we are actually keeping those poor teams afloat financially, thus allowing them to afford their bad contracts, and making your point moot.  Nice eh?  Ticket prices in some of those cities are less than 10 bucks.  Hahaha.  Their owners laugh at us.

[Ryan Strome]

^You're probably right on that RS, but there are quite a few teams that budget well under the cap(intentional ceiling), so they might not consider anything creative.

In Van's case, in using their cap this way, they're basically expediting the shift towards the future. I'm not sure how many franchises will accept allotting cap outflow,  for the distant(not immediate) benefit.

With our current makeup(vets, 1-2 yrs from fading out; coupled with green kids on ELC's), it might be an ideal franchise to go for such a deal.

Oh I certainly like the idea, in fact I thought we would have seen these type of trades happen already but it just hasn't come to that yet. If the cap shrinks maybe we see this and I 100 percent agree with you that we need to look at going after young high end dmen. 

[Ryan Strome]

sounds great, but what are the chances we get their top D prospect in return?  Think of it this way: the league shares revenue, so we are actually keeping those poor teams afloat financially, thus allowing them to afford their bad contracts, and making your point moot.  Nice eh?  Ticket prices in some of those cities are less than 10 bucks.  Hahaha.  Their owners laugh at us.

Philadelphia is a major team in the Nhl they're by no means a lower revenue team.

[Alflives]

Philadelphia is a major team in the Nhl they're by no means a lower revenue team.

then why would they give us a top d prospect just to dump a salary?  Plus, our ownership is money starved right now.  They wouldn't even buy out Lou, when it was the best option for the team's Cap future.  

[Nuxfanabroad]

sounds great, but what are the chances we get their top D prospect in return?  Think of it this way: the league shares revenue, so we are actually keeping those poor teams afloat financially, thus allowing them to afford their bad contracts, and making your point moot.  Nice eh?  Ticket prices in some of those cities are less than 10 bucks.  Hahaha.  Their owners laugh at us.

Alf, I was gonna reply what Stromer just said..As for the NHL biz-practice, you'd probably not find a more vocal critic. It's simply a rigged deck.

[Ryan Strome]

then why would they give us a top d prospect just to dump a salary?  Plus, our ownership is money starved right now.  They wouldn't even buy out Lou, when it was the best option for the team's Cap future.  

The point is so they can build a team they're in cap hell. Philadelphia is a major nhl market.

[Alflives]

The point is so they can build a team they're in cap hell. Philadelphia is a major nhl market.

if there building a team, why give us a top prospect?  I like your idea, but don't see it working, that's all.  Why not go after Seth Jones instead?  He will be deserving a BIG number soon?

[Ryan Strome]

Hey Nux here is another theory/option based of your proposed scenario, Let's say Tampa dishes out huge money for Stamkos would they consider a trade to dump Filppula's contractc? 5 million dollar cap hit for 2 more years after this, and in that package of taking a high cap hit we receive Slater Koekkoek.

[Ryan Strome]

if there building a team, why give us a top prospect?  I like your idea, but don't see it working, that's all.  Why not go after Seth Jones instead?  He will be deserving a BIG number soon?

No no Alf its the discussion of the thread. They need cap space/room to add talent and be successful. So sure they lose on the trade but gain coveted cap space for what could be a very decent free agency. Unless of course they choose to rebuild then they wouldn't consider this however Philadelphia has a history of making big signings and trades rather then rip it all up and rebuild. They can't make big signings or trades without dumping a bad contract.

[Nuxfanabroad]

Hey Nux here is another theory/option based of your proposed scenario, Let's say Tampa dishes out huge money for Stamkos would they consider a trade to dump Filppula's contractc? 5 million dollar cap hit for 2 more years after this, and in that package of taking a high cap hit we receive Slater Koekkoek.

Yes it'd be Flippin' Cuckoo not to ponder such an opportunity! Would like the young D to be a righty..noticed Philly has quite a scarcity there.

There's others:

Bowey, Morrissey,couple of 'em in NJ, Pulock...

[Nuxfanabroad]

A pertinent question here is certainly regarding the precise value of cap space(depending on the team, of course).

If you make a deal where a team gains 2~3 mill immediately(or more, if one contract term ends sooner than another traded player's), just what is the value?

It's a variable that most of us fans likely underestimate.

[Ryan Strome]

Yes it'd be Flippin' Cuckoo not to ponder such an opportunity! Would like the young D to be a righty..noticed Philly has quite a scarcity there.

There's others:

Bowey, Morrissey,couple of 'em in NJ, Pulock...

i don't see Winnipeg in cap trouble with their roster as most the players on that team aren't overpaid not to mention Ladd and Buff are ufa's at seasons end thats 10 million right there. I also don't see them tradin Morrissey at all. As for NJ they will have a major rebuild under way so very doubtful we can poach from them. As for Bowey I would be stoked to get him, like over the moon. 

[Nuxfanabroad]

Land one of these kids through a deal; then somehow, win the Zaitsev-sweepstakes.

Then we'd be in business. Meanwhile, keep drafting D for a coupla' yrs.

[Ryan Strome]

In my opinion the Rangers could be in cap trouble after this season they have a couple young guys that will get paid. If Philadelphia wants to stay competitive and try and contend they will need to dump some cap. Washington and Pittsburgh may be in trouble in the future and finally if Tampa wants to sign Stammer they will have to dump cap to stay competitive. Those are the teams I would focus on.

[Ryan Strome]

Land one of these kids through a deal; then somehow, win the Zaitsev-sweepstakes.

Then we'd be in business. Meanwhile, keep drafting D for a coupla' yrs.

Recipe for success right here.