Mafia: Flavourless (Sign-Ups: Closed - Still taking subs)

[falcon45ca]

Wait, what?

 

I thought the game was over.

 

Let's all take a breath and step back.

 

Off to DPS, great game Aladeen, much thanks for hosting, thank you very very much BW for taking the helm (#1, make it so!) after Al was unable, and thank you my TP brethren...though we may disagree at times, we are forever united in cause.

 

 

To all the Scum (you know who you are)...

Spoiler

 

[Dr.Strangelove]

[JohnLocke]

4 hours ago, Zfetch said:

 

 

It's our special love triangle.

 

 

Edit: also after reading the last few pages of the thread, my break from mafia probably won't be ending anytime soon 

[AV.]

7 hours ago, Time Lord said:

You weren't hated and I wasn't worshipped. Any other amount of likeableness is actually no factor in determining if a person cheated. 

In this game it was made clear that you lose your last words if you get invited into the DPS. if you had waited 7 hours in that game before being invited into the DPS you wouldn't have been berated for it. Btw my 7 hour wait wasn't strategic, it was just that I wasn't on CDC for the 7 am nightfall which shouldn't be a huge surprise tbh.

 

I'm 100% sure BW would have called me out if I had upvoted some posts. 

I never said you were worshipped or me hated.  I'm saying, or intended to say, that because the accusation is on you, people were so quick to assume that you would never do something like this before knowing the whole story.  And what I speculate now is that if it were me the accusations were on, I don't think I'd receive a similar backing.  And this is because of how quickly everyone has banded together to say I'm worthy of a perma-ban, when I never sabotaged the game, said numerous times I wasn't serious about any comments or actually ruining the game, and already pointed out other examples of players doing worse than me in past games but not be berated like I have been.  You guys can argue that this process would be fair for any players, and while that may be true on paper, my character is absolutely being put into consideration.  However, you guys will continually say that it isn't.

 

Its debatable but I'd lean more towards saying you're right.  Look at the DPS and look at our interaction.  It's clear he was in denial and said everything to discredit my claim.  Then you came and confirmed my story (well the parts you believe to be factually true) and his tone changes to him thinking that I'm only doing this to remove attention from myself, which isn't at all true since I've already taken the blame and using this story as a method of support for my actions.  If that's how he truly felt, he would have just said what he's saying now immediately.

 

Going to add this here:  If you're going to play "you know from RGMG, why would you assume I'm a cheater" card, I'm going to play it right back and say that you know I'm not a cheater but you do know I can take a joke farther than it should be.  The fact that I told you this and you haven't once said anything to have my back and let the rest of these morons know the truth, to me, means that you want me banned here and may, in the very slight sense, have had motive to cheat against me.

[AV.]

Next game I play, I'll be taking as much time as possible to offer my last words, in the scenario I'm lynched.

 

While you guys can all say that this is all good since I'm not in the DPS, I'm willing to bet that in the scenario that I hypothetically nailed all members of the opposing faction, there would as much crying and calls for bans on me as there were this game.

[Kazmanian Devil]

There's like 1 or 2 people asking for you to be permabanned. Chill.

 

FTR I don't think this ban-worthy at all. Do it twice and I might care.

[Dral]

There's only ever been 1 person who's been caught out right cheating in this game... everyone else either just pushes the boundaries and limits of the game or have at best circumstantial evidence against them...

 

FTR - plusing posts when you are dead IS against the rules - I asked about it when I first started way back and was told it was ok, and started doing what AV did... we subsequently changed the rules after that...

 

As far as last words go... Aladeen fracked me over in a game I hosted by waiting on his last words until I told him how the game was going down (was the game with 3 mafia teams and no TP)... after that, hosts have been very vigilant about last words and "DPS" type scenarios... and to be fair, we have a rivalry going about who can pump the most info out of the host when we're hosting... not sure who does more pumping...

 

 

 

As for all this cheating accusations - seriously, you guys sadden me.

[Time Lord]

11 hours ago, Alain Vigneault said:

I never said you were worshipped or me hated.  I'm saying, or intended to say, that because the accusation is on you, people were so quick to assume that you would never do something like this before knowing the whole story.  And what I speculate now is that if it were me the accusations were on, I don't think I'd receive a similar backing.  And this is because of how quickly everyone has banded together to say I'm worthy of a perma-ban, when I never sabotaged the game, said numerous times I wasn't serious about any comments or actually ruining the game, and already pointed out other examples of players doing worse than me in past games but not be berated like I have been.  You guys can argue that this process would be fair for any players, and while that may be true on paper, my character is absolutely being put into consideration.  However, you guys will continually say that it isn't.

 

Its debatable but I'd lean more towards saying you're right.  Look at the DPS and look at our interaction.  It's clear he was in denial and said everything to discredit my claim.  Then you came and confirmed my story (well the parts you believe to be factually true) and his tone changes to him thinking that I'm only doing this to remove attention from myself, which isn't at all true since I've already taken the blame and using this story as a method of support for my actions.  If that's how he truly felt, he would have just said what he's saying now immediately.

 

Going to add this here:  If you're going to play "you know from RGMG, why would you assume I'm a cheater" card, I'm going to play it right back and say that you know I'm not a cheater but you do know I can take a joke farther than it should be.  The fact that I told you this and you haven't once said anything to have my back and let the rest of these morons know the truth, to me, means that you want me banned here and may, in the very slight sense, have had motive to cheat against me.

I don't think you're right about this. If someone accused you of cheating with no evidence to support their accusation, and you later showed that the circumstances basically prove that you didn't cheat, no one would have a reason to suspect you.

 

The issue was that you were still breaking the rules even if it was a joke. 

 

Not entirely sure what you mean here but I never once suggested to have you perma-banned. All I've done is defend myself from your accusations. I don't think you should be perma-banned fwiw, but I'm not sure why you'd expect any sympathy from after all of this. 

 

If you still think there was a chance I cheated, then I guess I'm done arguing because I can't defend myself any further than I have.

 

[AV.]

9 minutes ago, Time Lord said:

I don't think you're right about this. If someone accused you of cheating with no evidence to support their accusation, and you later showed that the circumstances basically prove that you didn't cheat, no one would have a reason to suspect you.

 

The issue was that you were still breaking the rules even if it was a joke. 

 

Not entirely sure what you mean here but I never once suggested to have you perma-banned. All I've done is defend myself from your accusations. I don't think you should be perma-banned fwiw, but I'm not sure why you'd expect any sympathy from after all of this. 

 

If you still think there was a chance I cheated, then I guess I'm done arguing because I can't defend myself any further than I have.

 

1.  50/50.  People are throwing out that they "lost respect" for me yet probably have not understood the whole story or initially didn't care to hear it out.  I was seeing a lot of "I don't know the story but it doesn't sound like something TL would do" type of responses.  That absolutely isn't the proper approach when a claim like that is made.

 

2.  Yeah, breaking the rules in same sense that Dr.S posted screenshots this game and nobody said anything.  I get that my actions were done with more "malicious" intent but if that's your response, then it follows that Dr.S should also be getting similar treatment from the rest of the members.  That's where character and this subjective use of context comes into play.  There's issues with that and there's no consistency when it comes to dealing punishment appropriately.

 

3. It's not sympathy.  Its a suggestion to do the right thing and tell your moron mafia buddies to look at the truth and stop this petty crusade on my character.  I'm not a cheater.  if I was, I would have just revealed the whole list.  I did something that's 95% frowned upon.  I was told once to stop, in which I did, and then decided to rile a member I really don't care much for.  Now said member and another rookie who hasn't even been here for a minute feel the need to perma-ban me for that and take one bad instance and make put in the same sentence as other things done that have been way worse.

---

This dragged out for much greater than it should have but my arguments have been more than reasonable.  Certain members feel punishment can be subjective here and its frankly annoying since its not what I've done and its more based on my character and my interactions with those members.

 

 

[Beluga Whale]

I'm not going to try to create bans or permabans but I don't see myself ever wanting to play another game with AV (or Virt for that matter). After reading through everything from him post-game I don't think he has a shred of regret for what he did and I think his behavior is toxic for Mafia. 

That's all I really want to say on this.

[AV.]

1 minute ago, Beluga Whale said:

I'm not going to try to create bans or permabans but I don't see myself ever wanting to play another game with AV (or Virt for that matter). After reading through everything from him post-game I don't think he has a shred of regret for what he did and I think his behavior is toxic for Mafia. 

That's all I really want to say on this.

No, you're not going to do that.

 

Mafia is your thing and you serve this part of CDC than I ever will or care to.

 

I'll step aside and let you keep playing, if this is the way this situation is going to be.  Sorry that you couldn't find a way to deal with me or accept me as a player.

[Time Lord]

49 minutes ago, Alain Vigneault said:

Dr.S posted screenshots

Yeah

 

Of his own posts LOL

 

The rule is no screenshots of PMs

[AV.]

5 minutes ago, Time Lord said:

Yeah

 

Of his own posts LOL

 

The rule is no screenshots of PMs

Lol true.

[Time Lord]

51 minutes ago, Alain Vigneault said:

1.  50/50.  People are throwing out that they "lost respect" for me yet probably have not understood the whole story or initially didn't care to hear it out.  I was seeing a lot of "I don't know the story but it doesn't sound like something TL would do" type of responses.  That absolutely isn't the proper approach when a claim like that is made.

 

2.  Yeah, breaking the rules in same sense that Dr.S posted screenshots this game and nobody said anything.  I get that my actions were done with more "malicious" intent but if that's your response, then it follows that Dr.S should also be getting similar treatment from the rest of the members.  That's where character and this subjective use of context comes into play.  There's issues with that and there's no consistency when it comes to dealing punishment appropriately.

 

3. It's not sympathy.  Its a suggestion to do the right thing and tell your moron mafia buddies to look at the truth and stop this petty crusade on my character.  I'm not a cheater.  if I was, I would have just revealed the whole list.  I did something that's 95% frowned upon.  I was told once to stop, in which I did, and then decided to rile a member I really don't care much for.  Now said member and another rookie who hasn't even been here for a minute feel the need to perma-ban me for that and take one bad instance and make put in the same sentence as other things done that have been way worse.

---

This dragged out for much greater than it should have but my arguments have been more than reasonable.  Certain members feel punishment can be subjective here and its frankly annoying since its not what I've done and its more based on my character and my interactions with those members.

 

 

I guess I should respond to the rest as well.

 

1. People are allowed to say that they wouldn't expect me to cheat. If evidence of my cheating was presented and they still believed I didn't, that's when it would become a problem.

 

3. Either way, you trolled and broke a rule and disrespected the host who is well-respected by most of us. You can't expect us to take that well.  

 

---

 

It's based on what you've done and how you've acted about it after as well.

 

 

 

[Dr.Strangelove]

2 minutes ago, Time Lord said:

I guess I should respond to the rest as well.

 

1. People are allowed to say that they wouldn't expect me to cheat. If evidence of my cheating was presented and they still believed I didn't, that's when it would become a problem.

 

3. Either way, you trolled and broke a rule and disrespected the host who is well-respected by most of us. You can't expect us to take that well.  

 

---

 

It's based on what you've done and how you've acted about it after as well.

 

 

 

Bolded for truth

[AV.]

Whatever.  Its done at this point.

 

You basically confirmed what I already knew (with regards to people responding to allegations).  Took a while longer than I hoped it would take for somebody to just say it and admit to it.

 

I'm not sorry I didn't just bend over and say "yeah, you guys are right".  So any point about behaviour after the fact is wrong since it takes a special type of megaphone to get through to the ears many of you have.  Clearly.

[Dral]

You are all little  children who need to be sent to bed without dinner