[GDT] Canucks At Rangers: Desjardins vs Vigneault Edition | Nov 8 | 4PM | SN Pacific |

[alfstonker]

26 minutes ago, Ronning4center said:

I agree with you for most players but that's not jakes game.  He's a transitional player.  He's used to 18+ minutes a night where he can get lots of opportunities to carry the puck with speed.  7 minutes of grinding just isn't his game.  Also Eriksson and Baer aren't exactly lighting it up with all the ice time they get.  This is how you ruin young players....erode their confidence and make a former scorer feel useless until he gives up.....awful awful coaching.  What has Sven done to EARN his time?  Honestly???

 

I'm sorry to have to keep repeating this but it has little to do with "lighting it up" We are talking about EFFORT. We can't afford to carry Jake for 18 mins a night and I seriously question whether he has the stamina based on what I've seen lately.

Are you telling me he was getting 18mins a night last season when he was playing well, because I don't remember it that way, maybe you can give us some proof.

[riffraff]

4 minutes ago, alfstonker said:

 

I'm sorry to have to keep repeating this but it has little to do with "lighting it up" We are talking about EFFORT. We can't afford to carry Jake for 18 mins a night and I seriously question whether he has the stamina based on what I've seen lately.

Are you telling me he was getting 18mins a night last season when he was playing well, because I don't remember it that way, maybe you can give us some proof.

 

Eriksons effort or lack there of in his own zone along with sedins is appalling.  Check out jakes corsi stats and defensive numbers vs LE's who even with the eye test as been directly responsible for goals against within his terrible board play effort.

 

there are legit double standards in play.

 

again; not saying jakes effort is up to snuff.

[alfstonker]

23 minutes ago, 'NucK™ said:

I know right! Assumed Tryamkin was out for Stecher.

It's funny that it takes a professional coach 9 straight loses to make changes to the lineup, that many of us were screaming for 3 games into the losing streak,. 

 

I'd assume most people in the GAME day thread are probably planning to watch the game?

 

Genuinely wondering, how is watching some media people talking for 5 hours about which polls have closed "more fun" than watching a hockey game? Why not just refresh the electoral votes page every hours the polls close? Same info gathered in 59m50s less time  

 

Don't flatter yourself bud. The rate the cdc scattergun spits out mostly idiotic suggestions it is no wonder we have a "hit" now and again. 8 games ago we were not in the same position we are now (Stecher wasn't here and Tryamkin wasn't fit.) Go figure and give your crystal ball routine a night off.

[Where'd Luongo?]

I'd like to see Virtanen on the RW with Sutter and Granlund. I'll settle for Bo and Baer. Give him a 16min night. If he doesn't produce or at the very least get 3-5 GOOD shots, then send him to Utica. I can see that there are many people, most of whom are the people that have good arguments, that agree with giving Virt a chance with enough minutes to do something.

 

The other group of you are arguing that unless he scores a goal in his 20 second shift, he should be benched. Why do you think coaches put the good players into the offensive zone for faceoffs? Why do coaches put good players on the ice for 20 minutes a game? Why do coaches encourage good players to use their individual skill set to their advantage? I'll tell you why, because that's how you get a player MOMENTUM and CONFIDENCE.

[alfstonker]

5 minutes ago, riffraff said:

 

Eriksons effort or lack there of in his own zone along with sedins is appalling.  Check out jakes corsi stats and defensive numbers vs LE's who even with the eye test as been directly responsible for goals against within his terrible board play effort.

 

there are legit double standards in play.

 

again; not saying jakes effort is up to snuff.

 

You have a point however we can hardly bench a player we have just signed for $6m/ before he has had time to settle into a new team and new line mates. Actually I have sympathy for Loui although I said at the time I didn't want him here.

['NucK™]

9 minutes ago, alfstonker said:

 

Don't flatter yourself bud. The rate the cdc scattergun spits out mostly idiotic suggestions it is no wonder we have a "hit" now and again. 8 games ago we were not in the same position we are now (Stecher wasn't here and Trymkin wasn't fit.) Go figure and give your crystal ball routine a night off.

I guess if you want to make that point after saying "don't flatter yourself bud" you'll have to go find some of my "idiotic suggestions" won't you? Otherwise please don't lump my suggestions with every suggestion made on CDC..

 

And I never said we'd have won any more games.. just thought it was funny that WD is making the changes now that, I for one, was hoping for 6 games ago. Was just a comment - you're the one bringing up my supposed "crystal ball routine"

[alfstonker]

3 minutes ago, Where'd Luongo? said:

I'd like to see Virtanen on the RW with Sutter and Granlund. Give him a 16min night. If he doesn't produce or at the very least get 3-5 GOOD shots, then send him to Utica. I can see that there are many people, most of whom are the people that have good arguments, that agree with giving Virt a chance with enough minutes to do something.

 

The other group of you are arguing that unless he scores a goal in his 20 second shift, he should be benched. Why do you think coaches put the good players into the offensive zone for faceoffs? Why do coaches put good players on the ice for 20 minutes a game? Why do coaches encourage good players to use their individual skill set to their advantage? I'll tell you why, because that's how you get a player MOMENTUM and CONFIDENCE.

 

No we aren't. Where does anyone say that? Stop twisting the argument. What many of us want to see is movement, effort, hits (not love taps) and competing (and winning) on the boards.

[riffraff]

2 minutes ago, alfstonker said:

 

You have a point however we can hardly bench a player we have just signed for $6m/ before he has had time to settle into a new team and new line mates. Actually I have sympathy for Loui although I said at the time I didn't want him here.

Agreed and agreed.  A few games back he was taken off the first line which was the most that could be done and the right decision.  Although, and despite the Hansen injury I would suggest reuniting with the sedins and let them figure it out.  Nothing to lose.

[alfstonker]

1 minute ago, 'NucK™ said:

I guess if you want to make that point after saying "don't flatter yourself bud" you'll have to go find some of my "idiotic suggestions" won't you? Otherwise please don't lump my suggestions with every suggestion made on CDC..

 

I said "mostly" you may be the exception however you seem to be seriously putting yourself up as some kind of expert when firstly we have no proof and secondly, as I said, you don't even have the grace to acknowledge that circumstances might have changed in that time.

 

But hey let's all act smart after the fact and have a go at the coach. Fill your boots.

[Warhippy]

2 hours ago, Mackcanuck said:

Dan MurphyVerified account‏@sportsnetmurph

Stecher in for Larsen. Markstrom starts. #canucks

and

Dan MurphyVerified account ‏@sportsnetmurph  2m2 minutes ago

WD says Virtanen hasn't done enough with the minutes he's been given. Has to make most of opportunity when it comes. Like Tryamkin. #canucks

Well, THAt is interesting.

 

What is he supposed to do again on the 4th line with amazing linemates like...Dorsett again?

[Where'd Luongo?]

6 minutes ago, alfstonker said:

 

No we aren't. Where does anyone say that? Stop twisting the argument. What many of us want to see is movement, effort, hits (not love taps) and competing (and winning) on the boards.

I want that too, and it can happen but he has to be given the opportunity to play HIS game. Something that he isn't being encouraged to do because it's "risky".

[alfstonker]

4 minutes ago, riffraff said:

Agreed and agreed.  A few games back he was taken off the first line which was the most that could be done and the right decision.  Although, and despite the Hansen injury I would suggest reuniting with the sedins and let them figure it out.  Nothing to lose.

 

Agreed. After all either someone thought he would replicate his International Sedin partnership effectiveness (although I never quite saw that) or we have made a pretty huge mistake.

[alfstonker]

1 minute ago, Where'd Luongo? said:

I want that too, and it can happen but he has to be given the opportunity to play HIS game. Something that he isn't being encouraged to do because it's "risky".

 

And I say again "You have no proof that is the case" I think it has been the opposite, go listen to what Willie said in an interview last week. Willie wants him to play like he did in the 2nd half of last season.

[Where'd Luongo?]

Just now, alfstonker said:

 

And I say again "You have no proof that is the case" I think it has been the opposite, go listen to what Willie said in an interview last week. Willie wants him to play like he did in the 2nd half of last season.

I do have proof that's the case. Willie, the Sedins and others have said plus you can visually see that the style of game we play this year is completely different. It is a much more defensive structure of play. There's your proof.

[alfstonker]

3 minutes ago, Where'd Luongo? said:

I do have proof that's the case. Willie, the Sedins and others have said plus you can visually see that the style of game we play this year is completely different. It is a much more defensive structure of play. There's your proof.

 

I see plenty of chances created and missed with this "defensive structure" so that's no excuse for not working. You act like we are spending the whole game defending.

The fact is you don't set your systems to suit one rookie player.

[Ronning4center]

30 minutes ago, alfstonker said:

 

I'm sorry to have to keep repeating this but it has little to do with "lighting it up" We are talking about EFFORT. We can't afford to carry Jake for 18 mins a night and I seriously question whether he has the stamina based on what I've seen lately.

Are you telling me he was getting 18mins a night last season when he was playing well, because I don't remember it that way, maybe you can give us some proof.

Effort?   Hmm your right.... Question....how many wins has the effort produced?   How many goals does sven have again?  There are lots of players that do very little else other than score.  Thankfully Jake can hit as well.  When he's playing with confidence.   I guess my point was....why keep beating the dead horse....if we're gonna lose anyway at least lets be fun to watch.  All the effort in the world isn't going to fill the seats....goals will

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

42 minutes ago, riffraff said:

 

Eriksons effort or lack there of in his own zone along with sedins is appalling.  Check out jakes corsi stats and defensive numbers vs LE's who even with the eye test as been directly responsible for goals against within his terrible board play effort.

 

there are legit double standards in play.

 

again; not saying jakes effort is up to snuff.

Not really the case anymore.

 

Unfortunately, the strong possession stats Jake was posting early in the season have all but evaporated after a stretch of poor outings (which coincided with him being given more minutes and better opportunities).

 

Virtanen is now a negative CF%RelTM, after being one of our few positive possession players over his first half dozen or so games. His individual events rates remain pretty good but they've also fallen off significantly over his last few games. Worse still, while his iCorsi (individual Corsi) is good, his shots have really dropped, so he's not hitting the net when he generates shot attempts.

 

In terms of physical play, Jake's hits per game and hits per minute TOI have also significantly cooled over the recent stretch. 

 

I wrote a rather long post a while ago on Jake's positive underlying numbers (in another thread). And unfortunately, the last few games have seen Virtanen erase most of those positive stats with his poor overall play.

 

The question I have is whether or not it serves Virtanen well to scratch him and try to "wake him up" or if it's better to support him and help him ride out this phase and hopefully rebound by playing through his struggles.

 

I tend to lean toward the latter approach but I'm not the coach.

 

As for Eriksson, the one area he shouldn't be criticized for is what he's generating in terms of possession stats. Loui leads the team in CF% and CF%RelTM. And he's among the team leaders in generating scoring chances and SCF%. Eriksson has been remarkably unlucky so far this year, with one of the worst individual and team shooting percentages while he's on the ice. That's not to say that Eriksson doesn't deserve criticism. But his underlying numbers suggest the best course appears to be to keep playing him and hope eventually statistical regression will lead to some pucks going in, his shooting percentage (individual and team) returning to a normal rate, and him starting to produce goals.

[mll]

11 minutes ago, Ronning4center said:

Effort?   Hmm your right.... Question....how many wins has the effort produced?   How many goals does sven have again?  There are lots of players that do very little else other than score.  Thankfully Jake can hit as well.  When he's playing with confidence.   I guess my point was....why keep beating the dead horse....if we're gonna lose anyway at least lets be fun to watch.  All the effort in the world isn't going to fill the seats....goals will

 

I don't think your issue should be with Baertschi or Eriksson getting to play - they have the potential to score but are totally snake bitten right now.  They need to find a way to get going.  It's more concerning that Virtanen is being scratched in favour of Skille or Chaput. These are the guys with limited offensive upside.

['NucK™]

8 minutes ago, alfstonker said:

 

I said "mostly" you may be the exception however you seem to be seriously putting yourself up as some kind of expert when firstly we have no proof and secondly, as I said, you don't even have the grace to acknowledge that circumstances might have changed in that time.

 

But hey let's all act smart after the fact and have a go at the coach. Fill your boots.

Thought it was pretty obvious that simply subbing Tryamkin in for Larsen 6 games ago probably wouldn't of made much difference, so in no way was I trying to sound like an expert.

 

It truly was just a comment mate... I find it funny and that's it (and btw Stecher was here playing with Edler 3 games into our losing streak so our d-line would have been the exact same back then as the one WD has finally decided to dress tonight - which again, is very funny to me..)

 

[Where'd Luongo?]

5 minutes ago, alfstonker said:

 

I see plenty of chances created and missed with this "defensive structure" so that's no excuse for not working. You act like we are spending the whole game defending.

We do spend the whole game defending. We play a defensive structured game. Our forwards are coached to not make risky plays, passive forechecking, our forwards are taught to backcheck early so that we can try to stop them in the neutral zone. Willie admitted that last year was a development year, he gave a longer leash and played a less structured game, allowing for players to use their creativity.

 

Willie and Jarvis, as well as Hank, have all stated that the team will be very structured and coaches will be more involved than last year in regards to how each shift will be played.