Youngish Case-Studies For Canucks

[Nuxfanabroad]

Believe it's an important question, & it may meander in a few directions, first requiring a little preamble...

 

See a lot of heated-debate on these boards, about the direction the franchise ought to go. Even about the terms we choose to associate with our current state: retool, rebuild, etc...

 

Let's first all agree on one thing(to cut thru the divisive, distracting BS)..we're young. That's looking fwd a yr or two, when most of our vets are at the end of term. Whether we choose to keep 1 or 2 of them, is virtually a seperate, side-issue.

 

Therefore, what youngish(recent, or current) roster can we learn from? What shouldn't we do? What's concerning are franchises with false rebuilds. For a yr or two you swear they're on the upswing, then glance again(not following them like some fav team), & they're back in the league-cellar.

NYI, Flor, Edm, Col...

 

You could make a case that a lot of these teams went thru similar boom/bust, yo yo-fashion, misleading stints. Of course, they're all unique & different. But is there any common theme, or mistaken-development, which we may seek to avoid? At different times, our boards lamented not landing off-studs like Tavares, Hubie, Barkov, Duchesne, Landy, Hall, RNH, & on & on..yet a lot of these young talents wasted top ELC yrs, mired on uneven, mediocre clubs.

 

What seperates a franchise like say, TBay? Who've sunk to the bottom(landing 2 studs at draft), but have more resurgences(for longer periods) than periods of receding?

 

I'm HOPEFUL now, but I'm assuming JB might be onto this. Believe the biggest difference MIGHT be landing/developing the key pieces on D & in goal, first(before most anything else).

 

 

Would like to hear from any/all on this. Gotta keep in mind lots of variables are at play. Some owners wouldn't spend to the cap, for example. Injuries, FA's, poorly timed trades. So many things can surface to nip a good growth in the bud, as it were.

 

Please suggest what we SHOULD/SHOULDN'T do, at this(& future) stages. If you can cite other franchises to illustrate the point, may prove interesting.

 

CBJ! I'd say today's opponent nicely lends itself as a fine example. Focused on a GREAT young D-core. Might we soon be following their trajectory? :^)

[Caknuckle Puck]

I Agree

[NEON.KNEE]

3 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

 

CBJ! I'd say today's opponent nicely lends itself as a fine example. Focused on a GREAT young D-core. Might we soon be following their trajectory? :^)

I would say that it was CBJ's big powerful young defensive responsible forwards that killed us tonight...Seth Jones and Savard were the only 2 stand outs on defence for me

Murray is the suck

[Nuxfanabroad]

1 minute ago, NEON.KNEE said:

I would say that it was CBJ's big powerful young defensive responsible forwards that killed us tonight...Seth Jones and Savard were the only 2 stand outs on defence for me

Murray is the suck

Yet I'd assume you'd agree they're leaps & bounds ahead(D-core) of them dubious 4 teams I listed?

 

Look at the Cats last yr, pretty good D(they traded away, mostly), & a fine season

[cripplereh]

right way to rebuild is from the net out,we have most pieces but are missing a first line and a second line winger!

 

Bo and hopefully Boeser step up so we need two more pieces and we should turn around!

[Nuxfanabroad]

1 minute ago, cripplereh said:

right way to rebuild is from the net out,we have most pieces but are missing a first line and a second line winger!

 

Bo and hopefully Boeser step up so we need two more pieces and we should turn around!

So instead of the proverbial stealth-tank, it might be a ninja-rebuild?!

[cripplereh]

so having 25 players 25 and younger is a stealth reb uild???I would say we are rebuilding NOW!

[LaBamba]

26 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Believe it's an important question, & it may meander in a few directions, first requiring a little preamble...

 

See a lot of heated-debate on these boards, about the direction the franchise ought to go. Even about the terms we choose to associate with our current state: retool, rebuild, etc...

 

Let's first all agree on one thing(to cut thru the divisive, distracting BS)..we're young. That's looking fwd a yr or two, when most of our vets are at the end of term. Whether we choose to keep 1 or 2 of them, is virtually a seperate, side-issue.

 

Therefore, what youngish(recent, or current) roster can we learn from? What shouldn't we do? What's concerning are franchises with false rebuilds. For a yr or two you swear they're on the upswing, then glance again(not following them like some fav team), & they're back in the league-cellar.

NYI, Flor, Edm, Col...

 

You could make a case that a lot of these teams went thru similar boom/bust, yo yo-fashion, misleading stints. Of course, they're all unique & different. But is there any common theme, or mistaken-development, which we may seek to avoid? At different times, our boards lamented not landing off-studs like Tavares, Hubie, Barkov, Duchesne, Landy, Hall, RNH, & on & on..yet a lot of these young talents wasted top ELC yrs, mired on uneven, mediocre clubs.

 

What seperates a franchise like say, TBay? Who've sunk to the bottom(landing 2 studs at draft), but have more resurgences(for longer periods) than periods of receding?

 

I'm HOPEFUL now, but I'm assuming JB might be onto this. Believe the biggest difference MIGHT be landing/developing the key pieces on D & in goal, first(before most anything else).

 

 

Would like to hear from any/all on this. Gotta keep in mind lots of variables are at play. Some owners wouldn't spend to the cap, for example. Injuries, FA's, poorly timed trades. So many things can surface to nip a good growth in the bud, as it were.

 

Please suggest what we SHOULD/SHOULDN'T do, at this(& future) stages. If you can cite other franchises to illustrate the point, may prove interesting.

 

CBJ! I'd say today's opponent nicely lends itself as a fine example. Focused on a GREAT young D-core. Might we soon be following their trajectory? :^)

 

Draft well past the 1st round. Don't sign LE's

Dont trade picks and prospects until you have lots of picks and prospects. 

Dont hang onto players until they are worthless and walk away for nothing. Always get something. Rinse and Repeat. 

[Nuxfanabroad]

1 minute ago, LaBamba said:

 

Draft well past the 1st round. Don't sign LE's

Dont trade picks and prospects until you have lots of picks and prospects. 

Dont hang onto players until they are worthless and walk away for nothing. Always get something. Rinse and Repeat. 

Okay..would present a team like Nashville, who've basically followed your recipe.(squandered Suter, I guess)

 

What have they accomplished?

[Jam126]

If we somehow get Liljegren it's over.

[LaBamba]

10 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Okay..would present a team like Nashville, who've basically followed your recipe.(squandered Suter, I guess)

 

What have they accomplished?

 

Too mediocre and unable to draft a high impact franchise defining game breaking forwards. 

[Rick Blight]

52 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Believe it's an important question, & it may meander in a few directions, first requiring a little preamble...

 

See a lot of heated-debate on these boards, about the direction the franchise ought to go. Even about the terms we choose to associate with our current state: retool, rebuild, etc...

 

Let's first all agree on one thing(to cut thru the divisive, distracting BS)..we're young. That's looking fwd a yr or two, when most of our vets are at the end of term. Whether we choose to keep 1 or 2 of them, is virtually a seperate, side-issue.

 

Therefore, what youngish(recent, or current) roster can we learn from? What shouldn't we do? What's concerning are franchises with false rebuilds. For a yr or two you swear they're on the upswing, then glance again(not following them like some fav team), & they're back in the league-cellar.

NYI, Flor, Edm, Col...

 

You could make a case that a lot of these teams went thru similar boom/bust, yo yo-fashion, misleading stints. Of course, they're all unique & different. But is there any common theme, or mistaken-development, which we may seek to avoid? At different times, our boards lamented not landing off-studs like Tavares, Hubie, Barkov, Duchesne, Landy, Hall, RNH, & on & on..yet a lot of these young talents wasted top ELC yrs, mired on uneven, mediocre clubs.

 

What seperates a franchise like say, TBay? Who've sunk to the bottom(landing 2 studs at draft), but have more resurgences(for longer periods) than periods of receding?

 

I'm HOPEFUL now, but I'm assuming JB might be onto this. Believe the biggest difference MIGHT be landing/developing the key pieces on D & in goal, first(before most anything else).

 

 

Would like to hear from any/all on this. Gotta keep in mind lots of variables are at play. Some owners wouldn't spend to the cap, for example. Injuries, FA's, poorly timed trades. So many things can surface to nip a good growth in the bud, as it were.

 

Please suggest what we SHOULD/SHOULDN'T do, at this(& future) stages. If you can cite other franchises to illustrate the point, may prove interesting.

 

CBJ! I'd say today's opponent nicely lends itself as a fine example. Focused on a GREAT young D-core. Might we soon be following their trajectory? :^)

I think building from the net out is the way to go to become competitive year after year. However, it will not get you a championship until you can add solid pieces up front. You need to have enough skill up front to have a productive power play at the very least. A good PP and PK can get you a long way into the playoffs. We really need Boeser and Juolevi to step up and be the players that many Canucks fans expect them to be.

The teams like Edmonton and Colorado had regressed because they refused to address their backend and were determined that they could simply outscore the opposition. That may have worked in the 80's but simply won't work in today's NHL. Craig MacTavish used to say that offense is what makes you win and that was him still living in the past.

Teams like Tampa have done well and still have a bright future because they have drafted so well. They had 6 players (I think) at the team Canada Junior camp this year.....that is just phenomenal drafting and can't be overstated for long term success of any team.

I believe we are on the right track but we need another 1 or 2 solid drafts to get us some of the missing pieces and we need some solid leadership from players in the 25 - 28 year old group to bring along our current and future young core.

[Aircool]

1 hour ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

CBJ! I'd say today's opponent nicely lends itself as a fine example. Focused on a GREAT young D-core. Might we soon be following their trajectory? :^)

 

No.. Our defensive situation isn't nearly as pretty as the homers on these boards would have you believe... The only positives are really Tryamkin and Juolevi. That's it.. Edler is older now and Tanev won't be a part of any winning team we have going forward... He will be past prime at that point, or at least overpaid... Stecher is a nice piece, but hardly a cornerstone of a defense. Nor do I expect he ever will be.

 

How to properly rebuild? Collect blue chip prospects, with a couple strong LEGITIMATE 2-way players like Horvat. Get at least 3 LEGITIMATE Top-4 defensemen, including a LEGITIMATE #1... Then finish your rebuild with 1 to 2 franchise quality players... This is how you win cups... it's just not always possible, but you can make it happen eventually, by trading down and avoiding acquiring players at the wrong timeline while acquiring assets... If you really wanted to.

 

If you look at when young teams take off, it's when they cap off rebuilds with that #1 overall pick with superstar talent... Edmonton only took off as a team when they got McDavid, AFTER all those other high picks.. Pittsburgh with Malkin then Crosby... Chicago with Toews then Kane... You need the truly elite talent at the end... Otherwise you turn into Colorado, Islanders, etc....

 

Unless you just get HUGE surprises out of nowhere, like Tampa Bay did.... Exceptions happen... But there is a clear trend, if people are willing to stop the stupidity and admit the obvious, instead of constantly denying the truth because it doesn't suit their narrative about how teams should be built.

 

[Nuxfanabroad]

1 hour ago, LaBamba said:

 

Too mediocre and unable to draft a high impact franchise defining game breaking forwards. 

Yet they acquired THREE who've been(at different times) quite highly regarded, in Neal, RyJo & Forsberg-lite.

[Nuxfanabroad]

1 hour ago, cripplereh said:

so having 25 players 25 and younger is a stealth reb uild???I would say we are rebuilding NOW!

I hope you appreciate, was trying to distinguish(seperate) the concepts of "stealth tank" vs a ninja-rebuild. With the latter preferred, as opposed to the former, limp-wristed option.

[Nuxfanabroad]

45 minutes ago, Rick Blight said:

I think building from the net out is the way to go to become competitive year after year. However, it will not get you a championship until you can add solid pieces up front. You need to have enough skill up front to have a productive power play at the very least. A good PP and PK can get you a long way into the playoffs. We really need Boeser and Juolevi to step up and be the players that many Canucks fans expect them to be.

The teams like Edmonton and Colorado had regressed because they refused to address their backend and were determined that they could simply outscore the opposition. That may have worked in the 80's but simply won't work in today's NHL. Craig MacTavish used to say that offense is what makes you win and that was him still living in the past.

Teams like Tampa have done well and still have a bright future because they have drafted so well. They had 6 players (I think) at the team Canada Junior camp this year.....that is just phenomenal drafting and can't be overstated for long term success of any team.

I believe we are on the right track but we need another 1 or 2 solid drafts to get us some of the missing pieces and we need some solid leadership from players in the 25 - 28 year old group to bring along our current and future young core.

May be, RB. Just really like that they're proactively addressing the back end, right outa' the gate. Develop a D-man over 3~6 yrs, & a good fwd in perhaps half that timeline.

 

Next 2 yrs are quite key, up front.

 

Do this perfectly, & they could be formidable(& affordable..space to add any FA-needs) in 2 or 3 yrs.

[Oldmanpower]

1 hour ago, LaBamba said:

 

Draft well past the 1st round. Don't sign LE's

Dont trade picks and prospects until you have lots of picks and prospects. 

Dont hang onto players until they are worthless and walk away for nothing. Always get something. Rinse and Repeat. 

I do not want to be called a tanker. I am a draftist. I do not want anymore leftovers from other teams. I hear people on here talking about waivers and expansion drafts and I think really? We have 5 or 6 guys on our roster that should be in the Ahl. Surely 3-6 pts after 25 games isn't our standard is it? There's and old saying In this game that goes like this- If you can't score goals you better go get the puck and give it to the guy who can, If you can't pass it then you better knock the guy on his ass so buddy can pass it. If you cant do that you better know how to fight and if you cant do any of those things what are you? In the minors.

 

We need youth, elite skill, size, and speed and the only way we are gonna get it is with draft picks and lots of them.

[baumerman77]

2 hours ago, cripplereh said:

right way to rebuild is from the net out,we have most pieces but are missing a first line and a second line winger!

 

Bo and hopefully Boeser step up so we need two more pieces and we should turn around!

Why is rebuilding from the net out the right way?

[Nuxfanabroad]

6 minutes ago, Oldmanpower said:

I do not want to be called a tanker. I am a draftist. I do not want anymore leftovers from other teams. I hear people on here talking about waivers and expansion drafts and I think really? We have 5 or 6 guys on our roster that should be in the Ahl. Surely 3-6 pts after 25 games isn't our standard is it? There's and old saying In this game that goes like this- If you can't score goals you better go get the puck and give it to the guy who can, If you can't pass it then you better knock the guy on his ass so buddy can pass it. If you cant do that you better know how to fight and if you cant do any of those things what are you? In the minors.

 

We need youth, elite skill, size, and speed and the only way we are gonna get it is with draft picks and lots of them.

Normally, I'd agree with you..but in the case of Baer & Granny(& perhaps Pedan?), it could easily be argued JB did a hasty,(yet necessary) patch job, to desperately keep a craft afloat. note: I DIDN'T claim sailing swiftly..but we've stayed afloat.

 

We had to compensate for a black hole(at the draft table) that stretched from about 2007~ 2012. I mostly liked Gillis, but for a variety of reasons that period was a drafting-drought.

 

As long as this strategy now gets shelved, Nuck-historians may look back on it as a necessary-evil.

[Jam126]

5 minutes ago, baumerman77 said:

Why is rebuilding from the net out the right way?

Islanders, Penguins from 2010-2015, Oilers, Avalanche, Flyers. Those teams wasted so many years of their young talent up front because they didn't have any D or goaltending.