Kosmo Kramer Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 Man, some of you cast such unbelievably harsh judgement upon GMs and players. " He couldn't manage a McDonald's, manage? He couldn't make my big Mac, he's trash! Pond scum!" Does any GM have a flawless record? Arguably 1 or 2 ever? As if you were named General Manager you could make every right move, nail every draft pick and fleece the other GMs in trades left and right, never mismanaging a single asset? I've read these forums for close to a decade and rarely post, but I couldn't help but finally say it. You take the good with the bad, you win some you lose some. MG Pros - Signed good value contracts to keep the core together, scored erhoff and malhotra and signed Luongo to at the time the league's hottest cap circumvention contract. He also brought in tons of off ice improvements to our franchise. Cons - Poor drafting, bad at trading because he always wanted to win instead of making a hockey trade, mismanaged goalie situation and ultimately lost sight of his own vision on how to build a team (which destroyed us imo) JB Pros - Supposedly good at drafting (time will tell) , Short tenure so far I don't have much pros for him. Had a good trade deadline this past season. Cons - Doesn't seem to get full value on his trades but I'm reserving judgement because most of our old assets had NTC and called the shots on where they went. Overall I liked mostly liked MG and what he did, he did hurt our future but his goal was the cup and we were 1 win away. Benning I can see what he's aiming for and with 3-5 more years of solid drafting and top 5 picks maybe he can be successful too, if we have a chance against mcdavid in the next 15 years anyway. That's my rant... But long story short, Its easy to be an armchair GM, I'm sure the reality is much more difficult. I doubt anyone here has lead a perfect life so far, it seems silly to act like you'd be the perfect GM. P.S. Blaming Linden? He's just a beloved figurehead to try and calm an angry mob through a rebuild, unfortunately most of you would put the legends head on a spike as well. I doubt he calls any shots, he's a PR guy with a big title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianRugby Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 20 hours ago, Hortankin said: Now MG had quite a bit of success as GM here, but the team he had was mostly built by Burke and Nonis. Fast forward a few years we have a GM rebuilding. He's gotten us some really nice young prospects and the future is looking bright. Now any sensible hockey fan can see our window of contention is still shut and won't be open for another year or 2. Really. We're going to be contenders in a year or two? The Leafs & Oilers stage of rebuild is light years ahead of ours and they have some of the most elite young talent in the league and they weren't contenders this year but Vancouver will be? I'd like to hear your rationale on this. 20 hours ago, Hortankin said: JB is a really good GM and the way people bash him for the terrible finishes the last 2 years is just really close minded. Everyone of us knew this was going to be a tough transition and we would have some down years. As others have said, nobody bashes him for terrible finishes. Everyone knew bad finishes were coming except for Benning. That's what people bash him for. 20 hours ago, Hortankin said: If we are not back to the playoffs by 2019-2020 season I say fine let him go, but don't fire him if we have a bad year next year. It's kind of expected So do you believe there will be a new Gillis riding JBs success, or will they let JB show off what he built? Well I believe that Benning is the worst GM the Canucks have ever had, but let's say in a few years I'm proven totally wrong and Vancouver has one of the top 8 or so teams in the league. I would still want a GM like Gillis to come in because he was great at getting the maximum out of a salary cap, which is probably the most important thing for a team that's contending. Benning had a great "capologist" when he got here but then fired him because he values a different type of player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewbieCanuckFan Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 21 hours ago, Hortankin said: McCann for Gudbranson - steal (imo) It was McCann AND a high 2nd round pick for Gubranson (who was just qualified for roughly what a 3rd pairing D gets AND could leave as a UFA after this upcoming season). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hortankin Posted June 23, 2017 Author Share Posted June 23, 2017 1 hour ago, NewbieCanuckFan said: It was McCann AND a high 2nd round pick for Gubranson (who was just qualified for roughly what a 3rd pairing D gets AND could leave as a UFA after this upcoming season). Gudbranson is already top 4 sorry your blind to that fact Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice orca Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 4 minutes ago, Hortankin said: Gudbranson is already top 4 sorry your blind to that fact On the Canucks he is, on other teams a 5 or 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewbieCanuckFan Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 5 minutes ago, Hortankin said: Gudbranson is already top 4 sorry your blind to that fact If he's a legit top 4 guy; then his agent is an idiot for getting him to sign that deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hortankin Posted June 23, 2017 Author Share Posted June 23, 2017 7 minutes ago, ice orca said: On the Canucks he is, on other teams a 5 or 6. OK then if you say so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hortankin Posted June 23, 2017 Author Share Posted June 23, 2017 3 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said: If he's a legit top 4 guy; then his agent is an idiot for getting him to sign that deal. He never had a chance to prove much as a Canuck last year. You do know he was injured right.. it's a 1 year show me deal. If he was a 3rd pairing guy he wouldn't be getting north of $3M on a 1 year bridge deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewbieCanuckFan Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 Just now, Hortankin said: He never had a chance to prove much as a Canuck last year. You do know he was injured right.. it's a 1 year show me deal. If he was a 3rd pairing guy he wouldn't be getting north of $3M on a 1 year bridge deal. Sbisa got a better contract (and unlike Guds - he had no injury excuse for his poor play that season). We'll just have to agree to disagree. $3M is what you give a #5 guy (premium because he's a right side D) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hortankin Posted June 23, 2017 Author Share Posted June 23, 2017 7 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said: Sbisa got a better contract (and unlike Guds - he had no injury excuse for his poor play that season). We'll just have to agree to disagree. Sbisa got locked up at 3.5M. Gudbranson is on a bridge deal. If you don't understand the difference between being locked up and a bridge deal than quite frankly your not worth arguing with. Give me some detailed info that proves your fact that he's a #6 and Sbisa is better than we can talk. Either you don't watch hockey or you shouldn't. I heard baseball is being played maybe you should go watch that for a bit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewbieCanuckFan Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 2 minutes ago, Hortankin said: Sbisa got locked up at 3.5M. Gudbranson is on a bridge deal. If you don't understand the difference between being locked up and a bridge deal than quite frankly your not worth arguing with. Give me some detailed info that proves your fact that he's a #6 and Sbisa is better than we can talk. Either you don't watch hockey or you shouldn't. I heard baseball is being played maybe you should go watch that for a bit edit: nevermind... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hortankin Posted June 23, 2017 Author Share Posted June 23, 2017 3 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said: Necessary to resort to a childish insult? No I'm just tired of some people spreading hate for these good players JB has gotten us. I'll go on a 3 paragraph rant only to see nothing of proof just a dumb comment like... oh he's just a #6, Sbisa is better. My 4 year old could come up with a better argument of McDavid being a bust than you can of Gudbranson being a #6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hortankin Posted June 23, 2017 Author Share Posted June 23, 2017 4 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said: Necessary to resort to a childish insult? I'm just curious on your take on these players Virtanen - Gudbranson - #6 Goldobin - Dahlen - McCann - Sbisa - Baertschi - I'd love to see your analysis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewbieCanuckFan Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 Just now, Hortankin said: I'm just curious on your take on these players Virtanen - not trending good but it's early Gudbranson - #5 (can fill-in #4 spot if required - this upcoming season will tell us one way or the other) Goldobin - don't know enough about him to form an opinion Dahlen - don't know enough about him to form an opinion McCann - prospect (time is running out on him though) Sbisa - #6 Baertschi - 2nd line winger (with upside) I'd love to see your analysis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hortankin Posted June 23, 2017 Author Share Posted June 23, 2017 1 minute ago, NewbieCanuckFan said: Fair enough, I figured you would praise on McCann and Sbisa since they're no longer Canucks but you didn't ake the bait.. I disagree on Gudbranson and Virtanen though. Virtanen is trending very nicely he just didn't have the points to make you go wow. His conditioning and defensive play is a lot better than it was before Utica which makes that a successful year. He'll show his stuff come training camp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewbieCanuckFan Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 Just now, Hortankin said: Fair enough, I figured you would praise on McCann and Sbisa since they're no longer Canucks but you didn't ake the bait.. I disagree on Gudbranson and Virtanen though. Virtanen is trending very nicely he just didn't have the points to make you go wow. His conditioning and defensive play is a lot better than it was before Utica which makes that a successful year. He'll show his stuff come training camp I'll admit I might be harder on Virtanen given where he was picked. Still he's young & I haven't "written him off yet" by any means. Been following this team since 1970 - so I got patience (just no sanity lol). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hortankin Posted June 23, 2017 Author Share Posted June 23, 2017 Just now, NewbieCanuckFan said: I'll admit I might be harder on Virtanen given where he was picked. Still he's young & I haven't "written him off yet" by any means. He's coming.. not everyone is Horvat, some people need to learn it takes hard work to make it. A lot of kids come in cock thinking they are just naturally gifted only to get slapped in the face. That slap in the face has given Jake another gear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfstonker Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 20 hours ago, TimberWolf said: To claim Gillis had minimal effect on changing this team from a loser to a winner is just sour grapes. Yes, I didn't like what he did after we lost all that mojo but he was a very important part of turning this ship around at the beginning Of course Gillis inherited some good players, should he have traded them all? No, he evaluated what kind of team we are and complimented them with an identity that allowed us to have the best team we ever had. This doesn't erase Burke's cool trade to get both Sedin's or the one time Nonis didn't screw up and picked up the phone when Keane gave him a Christmas Present but have that preloaded into the lineup doesn't nullify the major contribution of GMMG as well Give credit where it's due and don't where it's not. When we won two back to back presidents trophies this was Gillis' team and when we spiraled back into a loser it also was. That's your opinion and that's fine but imo it was AV that produced PT wins out of that team. The core was elite but many of Gillis's additions just didn't cut it in the end. Once the other GM's sussed him out he couldn't even come up with anymore decent journeymen and all the time he was turning a blind eye to our lack of young replacements which has seen us in the mess we are in "to-day". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewbieCanuckFan Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 26 minutes ago, alfstonker said: That's your opinion and that's fine but imo it was AV that produced PT wins out of that team. The core was elite but many of Gillis's additions just didn't cut it in the end. Once the other GM's sussed him out he couldn't even come up with anymore decent journeymen and all the time he was turning a blind eye to our lack of young replacements which has seen us in the mess we are in "to-day". The most important thing Gillis did was to resist pressure from "higher up" to gas AV during that prolonged losing streak in Gillis' first year. It's the very reason why AV doesn't hold a grudge against Gillis (even though he was the GM that in the end fired him from the Canucks). Gillis' stuck his neck out for AV when it would've been easy to fire him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6string Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 On 2017-06-22 at 0:29 PM, CanuckGAME said: Gillis didn't ride anyone's success 1st off. Gillis was "so successfull" he found immediate , I mean later hired er.....never hired again! It's no secret many GM's would have love to manage the Canucks from 2010 on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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