canuck2288 Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 4 minutes ago, theo5789 said: I didn't say the dump and chase was the best system for us. You were suggesting we weren't playing disciplined hockey while the gripe before was too disciplined hockey and not enough freedom for the players. There's contradiction from what is wanted from the coaching staff, but the only thing agreed upon is that it's all on the coaches and the players rarely take blame unless their name is Eriksson. The team tried possession entries and couldn't connect passes or bobbled the puck which led to turnovers. Dump and chase is the safe play when you can't get going with the puck. There's no single system that should be deployed and it's naive to those that thinking the coaching staff only has one system in play. What I notice under both Green and Willie is a vanilla one size fits all approach I don’t feel that works as every line has a different skill set and a good coach lays out a strategy that matches the skill set that’s where players get stifled because the coach tries to treat a player like EP the same as Schaller have you seen a different o system for EP vs the 4th line? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck2288 Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 5 minutes ago, theo5789 said: They're doing their way and we are doing it ours. Both teams are on the same bubble right now. Edmonton isn't outdoing us. We have a more well rounded team and they can't ride their stars forever. We do need to tighten things up defensively, but it's not like our coaches are telling the team to forget defense. Edmonton has a negative goal differential despite having two of the biggest offensive stars in the game. I guess without Tippett, they'd be in the bottom of the league once again. So good on Tippett for getting them right to where we are? You forget he has literally 2 of the worst goalie in the league to work with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucker 67 Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Just now, theo5789 said: Good thing if we don't make the playoffs this year, we have another year to tweak and have a crack at it before giving up our 1st. This is true, and I'm hoping before then they've dealt with Eriksson and Baertschi, and Juolevi, Tryamkin and Hoglander are on the team. A healthy Ferland is also an important piece. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Goose Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, canuck2288 said: What I notice under both Green and Willie is a vanilla one size fits all approach I don’t feel that works as every line has a different skill set and a good coach lays out a strategy that matches the skill set that’s where players get stifled because the coach tries to treat a player like EP the same as Schaller have you seen a different o system for EP vs the 4th line? More BS. Absolutely clueless. If there is one thing I firmly believe TG doesn't do is over coach/micro manage his players and stifle their strengths. He's a former longtime player. He GETS the differences in players. This is the most absurd and clueless statement you've said no lately. You have zero clue of what's going on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 12 minutes ago, canuck2288 said: I do appreciate the discussion and I also appreciate the non attacking nature responses from many on here Including yourself that is how you have a proper debate the only truly “young” guys we haff vs e on our team are Hughes, Gaud and EP and they are all amongst our most responsible full ice players. I don’t buy the young team argument Jake, Bo, Miller, beagle, Pearson, schaller, Edler, Myers, Benn, stetcher, roussell, are nowhere near even sophomore players We are bottom 10 in average age. Our core is that young group. Jake and Bo I would include in that group. Bo is a 24 year old captain, and Jake is still showing the inconsistencies of a young player, but is getting better. Those vets are the players that we have brought into insulate our youth, but our youth is who we are playing a ton of minutes to drive our team. Even Miller at 26 is considered the vet of our top line. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 15 minutes ago, canuck2288 said: I don’t base that on the standings as of today with over half a year left I base it on our play as of today and our system vs our competition. Based upon that I don’t think we will make it And that's why you're going to react the way you are because you're ignoring the bigger picture. A season has ups and downs and right now our team is indeed inconsistent (IMO due to youth, but I know you disagree). We have won games we didn't deserve and have lost games that we have deserved. These things even out generally over time. The standings are a reflection of the overall picture. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 (edited) 30 minutes ago, canuck2288 said: What I notice under both Green and Willie is a vanilla one size fits all approach I don’t feel that works as every line has a different skill set and a good coach lays out a strategy that matches the skill set that’s where players get stifled because the coach tries to treat a player like EP the same as Schaller have you seen a different o system for EP vs the 4th line? I don't see that at all. I've seen plenty of times when Miller/EP/Bo try to carry the puck only to get stopped at the blueline (they've also been successful at times). Dump and chase is done by every line/player in the league, it happens, it's the safe play. The creative players are allowed to have the creative freedom and hopefully they don't make the mistake or execute poorly. Case in point, Hughes' pass up the middle where he thought he could get it through. Green isn't telling him to do that. Hughes is given the freedom to do it, but it backfired in a big way cause it didn't work. Miller likes to try the chip around the player play and at times it works and is effective and I remember a time it got picked off from an EN goal against. The coaches can draw up any play, but at the end of the day, the players have to execute it for it to work. Or if they don't see the play developing (the defense has it covered), then it's on the players to adjust to in real time. The coaches can't call out to the players to alter the entry at that point. Sometimes when the team lacks the confidence, the puck doesn't go the way they want. Edited January 11, 2020 by theo5789 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 19 minutes ago, canuck2288 said: You forget he has literally 2 of the worst goalie in the league to work with And yet Trotz's defensive systems have made their goalies Vezina candidates. If there was a good defensive system, then it makes the goalies look good. If the goalies are still looking like the worst goalies in the league, then maybe it's not just on the goalies. If Tippett didn't have McDavid and Draisaitl carrying that team, his system would be doing nothing for them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck2288 Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 19 minutes ago, SILLY GOOSE said: More BS. Absolutely clueless. If there is one thing I firmly believe TG doesn't do is over coach/micro manage his players and stifle their strengths. He's a former longtime player. He GETS the differences in players. This is the most absurd and clueless statement you've said no lately. You have zero clue of what's going on. Says the guy who has never personally played in a competitive hockey game who lacks credibility? you can’t give one example of how he alters his game plan per line yet you just follow along like a trooper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 16 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said: This is true, and I'm hoping before then they've dealt with Eriksson and Baertschi, and Juolevi, Tryamkin and Hoglander are on the team. A healthy Ferland is also an important piece. Or we make the playoffs this year and not stress about that 1st. With that said, Eriksson isn't going anywhere anytime soon, so I'm not banking on that. I think Baertschi will be bought out in the offseason if a trade hasn't been made earlier (retaining half his cap in a trade doesn't really make that much of a difference to us than buying him out in the off season, so I think that's why we don't want to go that route). I'm hoping for Tryamkin as well and would like to see how Hoglander does in camp before locking him onto the team. Have to see OJ's progression this year, but I don't think he would be a sure thing at the start of next season, but certainly should have seen some NHL time by next season. A healthy Ferland is indeed a big piece to the puzzle, but I'm not certain we are going to get a full value Ferland back, so it was a good thing that we signed him for cheaper than expected (or what he was looking for on the market based on rumours around this time last year). Just having a big body in Ferland back would be a good 3rd line option even if he cannot play with the aggressiveness as he once could, he actually has some decent offensive ability and can skate well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck2288 Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 20 minutes ago, theo5789 said: We are bottom 10 in average age. Our core is that young group. Jake and Bo I would include in that group. Bo is a 24 year old captain, and Jake is still showing the inconsistencies of a young player, but is getting better. Those vets are the players that we have brought into insulate our youth, but our youth is who we are playing a ton of minutes to drive our team. Even Miller at 26 is considered the vet of our top line. Tanev, Edler all vets really Honestly on the backend it’s only Hughes right now that is truly “young” 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck2288 Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 17 minutes ago, theo5789 said: And that's why you're going to react the way you are because you're ignoring the bigger picture. A season has ups and downs and right now our team is indeed inconsistent (IMO due to youth, but I know you disagree). We have won games we didn't deserve and have lost games that we have deserved. These things even out generally over time. The standings are a reflection of the overall picture. When we lose getting outshot And outplayed and win getting outshot and outplayed its not balancing out how many games have we try outplayed and out shot our opposition this year out of our total played? You are a stats guy but I am guessing it’s not in our favour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 1 minute ago, canuck2288 said: Tanev, Edler all vets really Honestly on the backend it’s only Hughes right now that is truly “young” And they are taking on some of the hardest minutes. We are still relying on Hughes to play top 4 minutes. He's not getting sheltered by any means other than not playing on the PK. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck2288 Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 10 minutes ago, theo5789 said: And yet Trotz's defensive systems have made their goalies Vezina candidates. If there was a good defensive system, then it makes the goalies look good. If the goalies are still looking like the worst goalies in the league, then maybe it's not just on the goalies. If Tippett didn't have McDavid and Draisaitl carrying that team, his system would be doing nothing for them. But if you look at their last 10 games it has not all been McDavid. Drai has gone dry as I think he has hit the wall but other guys picked up the slack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck2288 Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 1 minute ago, theo5789 said: And they are taking on some of the hardest minutes. We are still relying on Hughes to play top 4 minutes. He's not getting sheltered by any means other than not playing on the PK. I kNow but my point earlier is that for a “young” guy Hughes plays like a 10 year veteran puck and hockey iq like I have not seen ever from a Canucks d man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowdyCanuck Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 3 minutes ago, canuck2288 said: Says the guy who has never personally played in a competitive hockey game who lacks credibility? you can’t give one example of how he alters his game plan per line yet you just follow along like a trooper That has nothing to do with this! Some would call that a privilege to play competitive hockey...... also there's some great hockey minds that didn't play the game but loved it anyways. Some pro poster you are by making personal attacks.... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, canuck2288 said: When we lose getting outshot And outplayed and win getting outshot and outplayed its not balancing out how many games have we try outplayed and out shot our opposition this year out of our total played? You are a stats guy but I am guessing it’s not in our favour Don't know how many games, but we are averaging 31 shots per game while averaging 33 shots against per game. We are bottom 5 in shots against per game, so we do need to work on that, but we are far from a perfect team so of course we need to work on things still. Montreal leads with most shots per game. Are they outplaying everyone? Their record doesn't seem to indicate that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck2288 Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 Just now, RowdyCanuck said: That has nothing to do with this! Some would call that a privilege to play competitive hockey...... also there's some great hockey minds that didn't play the game but loved it anyways. Some pro poster you are by making personal attacks.... When some clown accuses another rig no knowing the game while they personally don’t know it personally by playing it I will call it out I will be perfectly respectful to those that are respectful but if you want to be a clown on here then bring it on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck2288 Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 1 minute ago, theo5789 said: Don't know how many games, but we are averaging 31 shots per game while averaging 33 shots against per game. We are bottom 5 in shots against per game, so we do need to work on that, but we are far from a perfect team so of course we need to work on things still. Montreal leads with most shots per game. Are they outplaying everyone? Their record doesn't seem to indicate that. That’s fair point but often when you have no hope you shoot. It’s the outplayed part which is hard to quantify the kings by the way also shoot a lot .... out of lack of alternatives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 7 minutes ago, canuck2288 said: But if you look at their last 10 games it has not all been McDavid. Drai has gone dry as I think he has hit the wall but other guys picked up the slack They've had a couple of games where the secondary scoring has helped. We will see if it can be sustained. At the end of the day, the gameplan is simple, shutdown the two guys and it's a likely win. They are both still the league leaders in points which helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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