10pavelbure96 Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 Voting steamer Nominating harold snepsts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 31 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said: Era is something I would consider though it would be below captaincies and playoff success, etc. One thing I would consider perhaps most of all is whether, regardless of era, a player was ever the best (or most important) player on the team (or nearly so). In Morrison's case, he was generally competing with Andrew Cassels for a distant 3rd place in team scoring. Sometimes the 4/5 spot. He once topped out at tying for 2nd with a Todd Bertuzzi that missed a significant portion of the season. Gunning for 3rd to 5th in team scoring is still impressive, but it's an achievement that makes me think more of Murray Craven or Martin Gelinas or Darcy Rota or Geoff Courtnall... And all four of those guys went to a Cup final. Guys like Boudrias, Skriko, Pederson, Kurtenbach, Ronning...all led the team in scoring and/or were team MVP, or in Ronning's case, topped out at a healthy 2nd in team scoring (85 points) to Hall of Famer Pavel Bure, and was a bona fide playoff hero. Anyway, I'm not trying to tear down Brendan Morrison. As said, I like him as a person and a player. But since you're (intelligently) bringing in statistics and factors to consider...these are the things I consider myself in such matters. Well said. For those that forgot the two things that bothered most fans during the WCE era was mediocre goaltending from Cloutier as #1, and using a competent two-way SECOND line center instead of trading or signing a proper first line center in BMO. Even trading Mogilny for him was disappointing but understandable (given we lacked centers). Imagine what Naslund and Bertuzzi could have managed with a top ten center instead of a top 30-40 guy. Morrison nominations at this point are very pre-mature, same with KB3 ones - where is Lidster and Lumme? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Biestra Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, IBatch said: edit: I like your lists but there are a few standouts that I'd have quite a bit higher: in order Ohlund, Kesler, Lumme, Bertuzzi, Jovo, KB3... Ohlund and Kesler should be i the top 7-15. Lumme top 15-20, KB3 25ish....just my thoughts - but I'm 100% behind on the oldies but goodies not getting proper representation. No way should KB3 or Morrison be getting nominations at this point unless you we're only going back as far as the WCE years - it's ridiculous really. Yeah, I can feel you on all of those. I'm lamenting how defensemen and goalies don't get their due, and then your list of guys I underrate is almost exclusively defensemen. I feel like these guys all should be higher myself...but then I actually make the list and I find guys dropping down further than I thought they should just because that's where the numbers put them. Anyway, I'd love to move those guys up... But I don't know who to unseat really in order to do it. As far as our (rather ordinary) history of defensemen goes, I have Snepsts and Lidster as our 1-2 for all-time "great Canucks." And then your guys are the next ones on the list but I just feel like in our franchise, the forwards have distinguished themselves more, and the top ones also have tended to build up greater longevity. So Ohlund, Bieksa, Lumme, etc. They all kind of made it to 600 or 700 games, all were very serviceable. Edler has kind of done the same thing but for an extra 100-200 games. None really captured the hearts of the fans like Snepsts did. Babych kind of did a little bit. I remember the ads in the newspaper when Ohlund was a rookie, playing the old battle-scarred blueline (Babych) against the new up and comers (Ohlund). As an example, Red Sox fans hate Bill Buckner and Phillies fans were pissed at Mitch Williams for pitching into a home run against the Blue Jays. Canucks fans hate Cloutier's meltdowns. But with Snepsts giving away the puck in overtime of Game 1 in the 1982 Final, they just sigh and feel bad for (and sympathize with) Snepsts. And we've never really had a Norris finalist kind of guy, and certainly not a perennial top six in voting kind of guy. But I do sometimes have to actively remind myself how good Jovanovski was. We've never even had a Ken Daneyko kind of guy that stuck around for 1000+ games as a reliable old warhorse. Closest thing we have is Snepsts. Edited March 25, 2020 by Kevin Biestra 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 34 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said: Yeah, I can feel you on all of those. I'm lamenting how defensemen and goalies don't get their due, and then your list of guys I underrate is almost exclusively defensemen. I feel like these guys all should be higher myself...but then I actually make the list and I find guys dropping down further than I thought they should just because that's where the numbers put them. Anyway, I'd love to move those guys up... But I don't know who to unseat really in order to do it. As far as our (rather ordinary) history of defensemen goes, I have Snepsts and Lidster as our 1-2 for all-time "great Canucks." And then your guys are the next ones on the list but I just feel like in our franchise, the forwards have distinguished themselves more, and the top ones also have tended to build up greater longevity. So Ohlund, Bieksa, Lumme, etc. They all kind of made it to 600 or 700 games, all were very serviceable. Edler has kind of done the same thing but for an extra 100-200 games. None really captured the hearts of the fans like Snepsts did. Babych kind of did a little bit. I remember the ads in the newspaper when Ohlund was a rookie, playing the old battle-scarred blueline (Babych) against the new up and comers (Ohlund). As an example, Red Sox fans hate Bill Buckner and Phillies fans were pissed at Mitch Williams for pitching into a home run against the Blue Jays. Canucks fans hate Cloutier's meltdowns. But with Snepsts giving away the puck in overtime of Game 1 in the 1982 Final, they just sigh and feel bad for (and sympathize with) Snepsts. And we've never really had a Norris finalist kind of guy, and certainly not a perennial top six in voting kind of guy. But I do sometimes have to actively remind myself how good Jovanovski was. We've never even had a Ken Daneyko kind of guy that stuck around for 1000+ games as a reliable old warhorse. Closest thing we have is Snepsts. I loved Babych - listening to the announcers calling him the leagues strongest player was fun - and how one handed he onto anyone he wanted was also fun to watch... his reverse hit on Probert was just the best (launched him over his head).... THN ranks Snepsts 11 of our top 50....I highly doubt the CDC will. Daneyko is a perfect comparison. Tough as nails. Over 2000 PMs for us in a hard era physically. Also played in three different decades (barely but did). Ohlund IMO should be ahead of Edler - and is probably close to Snepsts in this regard although he was a better defenseman so should go even higher (top ten). Enough younger fans were around so think he might. Lumme and Lidster after these two - then Jovo (if he played his entire career here he'd be the first defenseman off the board)...then maybe Babych. Diduck and Murzyn should also make the top 50 cut. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Biestra Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 (edited) 30 minutes ago, IBatch said: I loved Babych - listening to the announcers calling him the leagues strongest player was fun - and how one handed he onto anyone he wanted was also fun to watch... his reverse hit on Probert was just the best (launched him over his head).... THN ranks Snepsts 11 of our top 50....I highly doubt the CDC will. Daneyko is a perfect comparison. Tough as nails. Over 2000 PMs for us in a hard era physically. Also played in three different decades (barely but did). Ohlund IMO should be ahead of Edler - and is probably close to Snepsts in this regard although he was a better defenseman so should go even higher (top ten). Enough younger fans were around so think he might. Lumme and Lidster after these two - then Jovo (if he played his entire career here he'd be the first defenseman off the board)...then maybe Babych. Diduck and Murzyn should also make the top 50 cut. Well, I have the top defensemen appearing lower in my list (none in the top ten and starting maybe around the early teens) but I guess perhaps I make up for it by including a few more of them in my top 50... e.g. Dennis Kearns, Paul Reinhart, Kevin McCarthy, Sami Salo, Garth Butcher. There were definitely some quality D-men I wanted to get into the top 50 (and thought I would) but the numbers game was just too much... Diduck, Murzyn, Tallon, Lanz, Halward. Maybe even that scurvy dog Jeff Brown. Edited March 25, 2020 by Kevin Biestra 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-AJ- Posted March 25, 2020 Author Share Posted March 25, 2020 2 hours ago, Kevin Biestra said: Smyl: 5'8" Kyte: 6'5" Rick Rypien who could score. What a guy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Biestra Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, -AJ- said: Smyl: 5'8" Kyte: 6'5" Rick Rypien who could score. What a guy. It was like Trevor Linden in Cliff Ronning's body with Tiger Williams' short fuse. Speaking of which, "Rick Rypien who could score" pretty much describes 35-goal-season, 4,000-penalty-minutes Tiger Williams almost perfectly. 241 career goals, more than Henrik Sedin... Edited March 25, 2020 by Kevin Biestra 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Biestra Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 47 minutes ago, -AJ- said: Smyl: 5'8" Kyte: 6'5" Rick Rypien who could score. What a guy. Kyte was a pretty impressive guy himself. The only deaf player I know of that made it to the NHL. A fine achievement if you can't even hear the coaches or your teammates. I bet he was like me, taking some extra long shifts while his coaches yelled. "Get off the ice Biestra!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyCuddles Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 Voting Luongo Nominating BMo, guy is underrated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Biestra Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 (edited) 1 minute ago, N7Nucks said: Voting Luongo Nominating BMo, guy is underrated Edited March 25, 2020 by Kevin Biestra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyCuddles Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 33 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said: I’m ready for the old folks to roast me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apollo Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 Voted Steamer even though I never saw him play. His dedication to our orginization alone makes him a better "Canuck" in my books. Nominating: BMO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts