MeanSeanBean Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 1 hour ago, ba;;isticsports said: It is a bizarre situation He just recently signed a contract Hamonic must have been concerned of whatever issue then Before he signed, and why he is not here shortly after signing it and JB must have known something about it Why did they bother tying up $3 million on this guy until whatever the issue was resolved? He did sign in in July though. In July we were zip zooming through vacinations, and the numbers were doing really well. I don't think anyone really predicted such a sizable part of the population would be so stubborn and selfish and prolong the pandemic for the rest of us. Things were looking much more positive covid wise in July then there are looking right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_Hawk Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 2 hours ago, Kootenay Gold said: We do not know if that is fact though. Whatever the issue, it may have come up after he had already signed. An example of this could be a sudden flare up of whatever ails his child and he needs to be there because of the seriousness of it; who knows? Then opt out. Once again, this is NOT challenging ones priorities; family first. This is the way it should always be. If it were me, I would of held off signing to ensure I was ready to go in September, not accept a deal in the height of free agency, then forced the canucks to go dumpster diving in the 11th hour to fill out the team. He took the $$ when he could. You signed a contract and made a commitment to a team (both in cap space and roster position). Though I agree with Jim and others sentiment that this is a private matter, one cannot be disappointed in his selfishness in hamstringing the team. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 3 hours ago, ba;;isticsports said: It is a bizarre situation He just recently signed a contract Hamonic must have been concerned of whatever issue then Before he signed, and why he is not here shortly after signing it and JB must have known something about it Why did they bother tying up $3 million on this guy until whatever the issue was resolved? Keep in mind that, back when the contract was signed, it would have been before the 4th wave of coronavirus. Things were looking better than they are now. Even if you consider that fact alone and nothing else, it turns out to not be a bizarre situation at all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba6 Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 2 hours ago, shayster007 said: He did sign in in July though. In July we were zip zooming through vacinations, and the numbers were doing really well. I don't think anyone really predicted such a sizable part of the population would be so stubborn and selfish and prolong the pandemic for the rest of us. Things were looking much more positive covid wise in July then there are looking right now. I am sorry I am pro vaccine and all but to say 20% of the population is creating the current pandemic is insanity. 1 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kloubek Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, The Lock said: Keep in mind that, back when the contract was signed, it would have been before the 4th wave of coronavirus. Things were looking better than they are now. Even if you consider that fact alone and nothing else, it turns out to not be a bizarre situation at all. Sort of. The 4th wave was already well on it's way worldwide when the contract was signed. Given that Canada got hit on wave 1, wave 2 and wave 3, I believe there was a historical precedent to assume we'd be hit with wave 4. I know around that time I had already heard warnings from doctors that we would likely see the 4th wave - even though we were a little delayed in it ramping up compared to many other countries. Personally, I knew for certain were going to spike up again. It was already likely, but here in Alberta our esteemed Premier decided to remove every single restriction. To this mind-blowing degree: If you were diagnosed with Covid, there was no longer a requirement to isolate. Yes, you read this right. The government made a conscious decision to allow covid-positive individuals to mix and mingle with others. They could have just let that single restriction stand, but nope... they DECIDED it wasn't necessary. If there was any question as to whether Alberta would see a 4th wave, our Premier ensured it. And if it was to be rampant here, one would guess it was just a matter of time before it spread outward to neighboring provinces. So... yeah, in my own mind, it's still pretty bizarre. 43 minutes ago, bubba6 said: I am sorry I am pro vaccine and all but to say 20% of the population is creating the current pandemic is insanity. They certainly didn't "create" it, no. But they are the main drivers for keeping it going to the degree we see. It's currently not completely known how much less vaxxed people transmit the disease (I even read a debunked theory that they spread it MORE which is what I feel perhaps Hamonic is concerned about), but it's generally accepted to be a significant reduction. But let's just ignore that for a second because it's the second half of this that's most important. The chances of GETTING Covid if unvaxxed are approximately 13-14 times more than that of a vaxxed person. And further to that, we can see that 90% of those in hospital and the vast majority of those in ICU are unvaxxed, so it affects them far worse as well. Even if we reduce it to simple math based on outcome data, 80% of the population are vaxxed and 90% of the hospitalizations are unvaxxed people. That's 45X more likely to be hospitalized if you are unvaxxed. So really, from both ends, it's pretty clear what an enormous difference vaccines make. So, no... that 20% didn't "create" the pandemic for certain. But I don't see how anyone can deny that they are largely responsible for the collapsing health care system, deaths, and the level of restrictions we continue to endure. Sure, one could blame the government - but the fact is that it would all be a non-issue if there wasn't a steady stream of infected people converging on our hospitals. Edited October 5, 2021 by kloubek 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFAN Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 shayster007 is incorrect on the pandemic issue. The huge majority of covid cases ( at least over 90% from 20% of the population ) involve those individuals who are not fully vaccinated. The ICU's are over 90% occupied with covid patients that are not fully vaccinated. Furthermore, the risk of further mutations or variants are greatly increased by those who remain susceptible to the coronavirus. It is those variants that will pose our population the greatest risk in the future. Those individuals who are not vaccinated are a mortal risk to themselves, their families, those health care workers toiling under extreme stress in hospital settings, and to society at large. It may not be insanity, but it is certainly selfish stupidity. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 1 minute ago, kloubek said: Sort of. The 4th wave was already well on it's way worldwide when the contract was signed. Given that Canada got hit on wave 1, wave 2 and wave 3, I believe there was a historical precedent to assume we'd be hit with wave 4. I know around that time I had already heard warnings from doctors that we would likely see the 4th wave - even though we were a little delayed in it ramping up compared to many other countries. Personally, I knew for certain were going to spike up again. It was already likely, but here in Alberta our esteemed Premier decided to remove every single restriction. To this mind-blowing degree: If you were diagnosed with Covid, there was no longer a requirement to isolate. Yes, you read this right. The government made a conscious decision to allow covid-positive individuals to mix and mingle with others. They could have just let that single restriction stand, but nope... they DECIDED it wasn't necessary. If there was any question as to whether Alberta would see a 4th wave, our Premier ensured it. And if it was to be rampant here, one would guess it was just a matter of time before it spread outward to neighboring provinces. So... yeah, in my own mind, it's still pretty bizarre. Perhaps then it depends on where you live how you view things? I recall here in BC restrictions only somewhat starting to get lifted at the beginning of July. It seemed like we were getting out of the clear to me at that point and I honestly did not expect the 4th wave to be this bad; therefore, based on my own experience and what I expected, it doesn't seem that bizarre to me if Hamonic thought even remotely like how I thought. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 47 minutes ago, bubba6 said: I am sorry I am pro vaccine and all but to say 20% of the population is creating the current pandemic is insanity. Actually the 15% of adults choosing to not be vaccinated are responsible for the vast majority of infections, high hospitalization numbers, and current restrictive measure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 (edited) 53 minutes ago, bubba6 said: I am sorry I am pro vaccine and all but to say 20% of the population is creating the current pandemic is insanity. It's true though. It may seem like insanity, but that's who the majority are who are getting infected now. There is overwhemling evidence to support all of this as well. Take a look at any area on the continent as of late and take a look at who's getting infected. It's the people who are unvaccinated. 20% of the population is creating the current pandemic. Edited October 5, 2021 by The Lock 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba6 Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 6 minutes ago, The Lock said: It's true though. It may seem like insanity, but that's who the majority are who are getting infected now. There is overwhemling evidence to support all of this as well. Take a look at any area on the continent as of late and take a look at who's getting infected. It's the people who are unvaccinated. 20% of the population is creating the current pandemic. That is not truthful statement. The real numbers do not reflect that and real world experience doesn't either it is more of a 50/50 split. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 6 minutes ago, bubba6 said: That is not truthful statement. The real numbers do not reflect that and real world experience doesn't either it is more of a 50/50 split. Where's the 50/50 split? Most stats I've seen have been from 80% to 96%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba6 Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 21 minutes ago, kloubek said: They certainly didn't "create" it, no. But they are the main drivers for keeping it going to the degree we see. It's currently not completely known how much less vaxxed people transmit the disease (I even read a debunked theory that they spread it MORE which is what I feel perhaps Hamonic is concerned about), but it's generally accepted to be a significant reduction. But let's just ignore that for a second because it's the second half of this that's most important. The chances of GETTING Covid if unvaxxed are approximately 13-14 times more than that of a vaxxed person. And further to that, we can see that 90% of those in hospital and the vast majority of those in ICU are unvaxxed, so it affects them far worse as well. Even if we reduce it to simple math based on outcome data, 80% of the population are vaxxed and 90% of the hospitalizations are unvaxxed people. That's 45X more likely to be hospitalized if you are unvaxxed. So really, from both ends, it's pretty clear what an enormous difference vaccines make. So, no... that 20% didn't "create" the pandemic for certain. But I don't see how anyone can deny that they are largely responsible for the collapsing health care system, deaths, and the level of restrictions we continue to endure. Sure, one could blame the government - but the fact is that it would all be a non-issue if there wasn't a steady stream of infected people converging on our hospitals. I wouldn't say it is debunked as there are several studies still being conducted that have preliminary results that point towards a higher rate of asymptomatic spread due to the ability of the Vaccine to suppress symptoms to a higher threshold of viral load. obviously still under review so preliminary results can mean nothing but it is not to be completely disregarded. I believe in the vaccines but I am also a student of science and there are many holes needing to be filled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba6 Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 2 minutes ago, The Lock said: Where's the 50/50 split? Most stats I've seen have been from 80% to 96%. where are you getting your stats from ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 8 minutes ago, bubba6 said: That is not truthful statement. The real numbers do not reflect that and real world experience doesn't either it is more of a 50/50 split. Oh sorry... 77% in BC.... but not a 50/50 split. I call your lie.... https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/covid-19-update-sept8-1.6167993 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanSeanBean Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 1 hour ago, bubba6 said: I am sorry I am pro vaccine and all but to say 20% of the population is creating the current pandemic is insanity. Entirely, whole heartedly, disagree with you. It's not Insanity, it's fact. The overwhelming majority of new cases of covid are unvaccinated people. If those people who were physically able, had smartened up and got the vaccine we would be in a completely different situation right now. Not only are the willingly unvaccinated people prolonging the pandemic for those of us who have taken every precaution to protect those around us, they are actively endangering those in our society who are physically unable to get the vaccine. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NHL97OneTimer Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 (edited) 16 minutes ago, bubba6 said: That is not truthful statement. The real numbers do not reflect that and real world experience doesn't either it is more of a 50/50 split. I am a healthcare worker with access to internal numbers of our health authority. I can tell you that 100% deaths in critical care over a recent 6 week timeframe were in unvaccinated people. 80% critical care cases are unvaccinated. Overall cases in our health authority (including non-hospitalized) are about 53% unvaccinated, but another 13% are unvaccinated < 12 yrs and 15% have received one dose. 24% hospitalized cases are 2-dose vaccinated (not including critical care). Vaccination rates are 70% (2-dose). However, another 10% are under 12 and 6% have had one dose. So overall objective numbers from in our health authority (which is on trend with other parts of the province) support the fact that 14-20% of vaccine-hesitant people are leading to 80% of critical care cases and 100% deaths recently. Our ICUs are full and this will affect the level of care that non-COVID cases will receive. So yes, unvaccinated people are creating a major problem in this province. Can't force them to take it, but this provides the understanding of why we should have vaccine passports. But hey, if people don't know or care about this now, will they ever? One last point - this 20% critical care rate in double-vaccinated cases is a good reminder why masks, social distancing and hand sanitizing is still in play and important despite being vaccinated. Edited October 5, 2021 by NHL97OneTimer 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kloubek Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 Just now, The Lock said: Oh sorry... 77% in BC.... but not a 50/50 split. I call your lie.... https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/covid-19-update-sept8-1.6167993 Someone getting infected isn't the only part of "keeping this going" as well. There are two elements to this - keeping the spread going is one element. The other is how bad the results are once someone gets the virus. If we could all fight it off and not go to hospital (like most vaccinated people can), then we wouldn't see the deaths. We wouldn't see the overflowing hospitals and we certainly wouldn't see the full ICUs. I would imagine under that circumstance, the government would in turn have no restrictions, elective surgeries could continue, and our life would be almost back to normal. My point being is that we can't just look at infections and leave it at that. There is more to this that needs to be considered, because it is those considerations that are truly affecting our way of life and not the actual infections themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanSeanBean Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 32 minutes ago, EFAN said: shayster007 is incorrect on the pandemic issue. The huge majority of covid cases ( at least over 90% from 20% of the population ) involve those individuals who are not fully vaccinated. The ICU's are over 90% occupied with covid patients that are not fully vaccinated. Furthermore, the risk of further mutations or variants are greatly increased by those who remain susceptible to the coronavirus. It is those variants that will pose our population the greatest risk in the future. Those individuals who are not vaccinated are a mortal risk to themselves, their families, those health care workers toiling under extreme stress in hospital settings, and to society at large. It may not be insanity, but it is certainly selfish stupidity. How am I incorrect? I'm pretty sure you either misread my post or are quoting the wrong person. I'm a healthcare worker and you just echoed everything I constantly say around here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 Just now, kloubek said: Someone getting infected isn't the only part of "keeping this going" as well. There are two elements to this - keeping the spread going is one element. The other is how bad the results are once someone gets the virus. If we could all fight it off and not go to hospital (like most vaccinated people can), then we wouldn't see the deaths. We wouldn't see the overflowing hospitals and we certainly wouldn't see the full ICUs. I would imagine under that circumstance, the government would in turn have no restrictions, elective surgeries could continue, and our life would be almost back to normal. My point being is that we can't just look at infections and leave it at that. There is more to this that needs to be considered, because it is those considerations that are truly affecting our way of life and not the actual infections themselves. Of course. It's just that infections are the easiest stat at this point to come up with. It's certainly going to be far worse under the hood, especially for the unvaccinated. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballisticsports. Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 2 hours ago, The Lock said: Keep in mind that, back when the contract was signed, it would have been before the 4th wave of coronavirus. Things were looking better than they are now. Even if you consider that fact alone and nothing else, it turns out to not be a bizarre situation at all. Well maybe they could apply for a contract annulment and rescind the agreement seeing as a single game wasn't consummated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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