[Discussion] Long term D plans

[UKNuck96]

So we all know the Canucks need to upgrade on the back end and need some more size and ability to clear the crease.

 

Two schools of thought do we 

 

A) bring in a proven defender who would command a higher cap hit but get what we expect 

 

B ) go for younger options who may already be cost controlled and can grow with the team 

 

benefit of a is you know what you are getting and can pick up some via free agency meaning it doesn’t cost assets 

 

downside is that it eats up more cap space and may mean we need to replace in a few years when the core is in its window

 

for b benefits is cost control and potentially can net us someone who could have far greater value going forward and should hit their prime in our window meaning we don’t need to replace them

 

downside for b is that a player may not reach that ceiling, costs assets to acquire and isn’t necessarily what we need right now even if they grow into it.

 

for me based on where we are at I would like to look more at option B.

 

look at players like ( but not restricted to P.Myers, Logan Stanley, Cernak, Dobson, Provorov as an example)

 

what would your approach be and who would look to get 

[IBatch]

You have to pay to play.   Each trade hurts to the degree of what your getting back.   If you want Dobson it's going to hurt.   Cernak too although i'm always concerned when trading a player from a great team that has no sample size somewhere else. 

 

Dobson would cost us a big ransom.  No way they'd trade for Podz for example, and if they did that means we just lost a 30 goal all around guy as it wouldn't be until after this season is done.   

 

This year i think we need to see what we have in the pipe and give Schmidt another go around before freaking out too much.     It's for sure risky from a playoff standpoint but it's time to sink of swim with this group, we don't have much choice cap wise anyways.   

 

Id consider trading QHs to improve our D and other areas.   There isn't any shiny new toys on the  UFA front that get me that excited with the exception of Hamilton  who we simply don't have the space for unless LE retires. 

 

Cernak is even more of a pipe dream then Hamilton - why would TB even consider that at all?    Cap controlled etc.   Would have to have an equal piece back and sorry that's not Rathbone and if it was it would mean he's a keeper right ?  Unless so is OJ. 

 

 No to Savard, no to Montour no thx.    We are not in a position to compete with these guys services.   Yes to Hamonic.   Bring him back but not for much more then 2.    2.25 x 2 would be it.   

 

Who can predict the season.    Right now we just need to keep taking our medicine.   Let the cap shed.    

Edited July 17, 2021 by IBatch

[UKNuck96]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

You have to pay to play.   Each trade hurts to the degree of what your getting back.   If you want Dobson it's going to hurt.   Cernak too although i'm always concerned when trading a player from a great team that has no sample size somewhere else. 

 

Dobson would cost us a big ransom.  No way they'd trade for Podz for example, and if they did that means we just lost a 30 goal all around guy as it wouldn't be until after this season is done.   

 

This year i think we need to see what we have in the pipe and give Schmidt another go around before freaking out too much.     It's for sure risky from a playoff standpoint but it's time to sink of swim with this group, we don't have much choice cap wise anyways.   

 

Id consider trading QHs to improve our D and other areas.   There isn't any shiny new toys on the  UFA front that get me that excited with the exception of Hamilton  who we simply don't have the space for unless LE retires. 

 

Cernak is even more of a pipe dream then Hamilton - why would TB even consider that at all?    Cap controlled etc.   Would have to have an equal piece back and sorry that's not Rathbone and if it was it would mean he's a keeper right ?  Unless so is OJ. 

 

 No to Savard, no to Montour no thx.    We are not in a position to compete with these guys services.   Yes to Hamonic.   Bring him back but not for much more then 2.    2.25 x 2 would be it.   

 

Who can predict the season.    Right now we just need to keep taking our medicine.   Let the cap shed.    

Yeah Dobson is a pipe dream but it’s more of a do we go with that approach vs the free agency, tried and tested approach, I would be focusing more on the groups below, young D men that maybe could be a project but could turn out well.

 

PMyers would be my go to example - talk around the flyers fans is that he could be brought out because it actually nets them cap credits and they expected him to be a stud this year and he didn’t deliver.

 

he is 23 I believe so will be streaky but he has shown the potential, if the flyers are willing to move him I think that’s the type of d men we should be sniffing around, cap wise wouldn’t hurt us, gives us size and RHD and tbh can still develop and even if he doesn’t get much better it’s not a downgrade

[IBatch]

24 minutes ago, UKNuck96 said:

Yeah Dobson is a pipe dream but it’s more of a do we go with that approach vs the free agency, tried and tested approach, I would be focusing more on the groups below, young D men that maybe could be a project but could turn out well.

 

PMyers would be my go to example - talk around the flyers fans is that he could be brought out because it actually nets them cap credits and they expected him to be a stud this year and he didn’t deliver.

 

he is 23 I believe so will be streaky but he has shown the potential, if the flyers are willing to move him I think that’s the type of d men we should be sniffing around, cap wise wouldn’t hurt us, gives us size and RHD and tbh can still develop and even if he doesn’t get much better it’s not a downgrade

So who would we trade for Provorov (assuming that's who your talking about?) He's going to be 25 this year so yes he fits in with our age range.    Isn't he a LHD, he shoots left anyways?   He's not really that big either.. basically another Schmidt sized guy.  Can see why Flyers fans aren't so sure about him anymore, they went through a big down turn with PMD Norris voted 5'11" Ghost not too long ago (QHs please don't follow that same cycle!).  

 

Parayko in St. Louis seems like an ok target.   Have to be a trade and sign in that situation though and after this off season.   I like Manson in ANA.   Not so easy to trade in your own division though, feel he could be our Willie Mitchell type and loved his Dad.   All three of these guys are in their primes.   Three years between them so for sure Provorov has extra years with him.   

 

I dont really think it matters much cap wise which route we take.   To get the any off these guys not as a free agent is going to cost us young guys that help with the cap plus futures which could help with the cap in picks.    You only find out how things work out with hindsight. 

 

Guess what i'm saying is might as well spend out excess next off-season on something rather then lose a core player to gain a core player.    Keep the group together for now.    This isn't a year to do anything drastic or blow our wad early.   Cap space will still be a massive commodity too when we actually have some.    Flat cap four years ... Maybe the best thing is just to sign Hamonic, say goodbye to Edler and stay the course. 

[FlyLow_]

-Expose Myers, call Seattle and add a reasonable pick if necessary to get rid of him.

-Make a move like the Leddy/Graves deals to bring in a solid defender for a 2nd and a B tier prospect.

-Trade Miller for the long term D piece we need that is more in line with our core group's age.

-There is the option to move up in the draft and grab one of the young D we need as well if necessary.

-Getting Myers money off the books gives us the ability to upgrade the defense at a lower price in the free agent market. We could bring back Hamonic or grab a Larsson, Savard, Martinez  type and a depth piece on the cheap like Oleksiak, Cole, Nemeth, or Ceci.

 

The final part is Nate Schmidt. I am 100% against selling low on him, but I am 100% for moving him. We have Hughes and Rathbone, so we don't need another player like that, but I am confident with an actual NHL calibre defense coach his value will be much higher a couple months into the season. I would move him then for a nice package to fill holes for now, the future and recoup picks.

[Patel Bure]

8 hours ago, UKNuck96 said:

So we all know the Canucks need to upgrade on the back end and need some more size and ability to clear the crease.

 

Two schools of thought do we 

 

A) bring in a proven defender who would command a higher cap hit but get what we expect 

 

B ) go for younger options who may already be cost controlled and can grow with the team 

 

benefit of a is you know what you are getting and can pick up some via free agency meaning it doesn’t cost assets 

 

downside is that it eats up more cap space and may mean we need to replace in a few years when the core is in its window

 

for b benefits is cost control and potentially can net us someone who could have far greater value going forward and should hit their prime in our window meaning we don’t need to replace them

 

downside for b is that a player may not reach that ceiling, costs assets to acquire and isn’t necessarily what we need right now even if they grow into it.

 

for me based on where we are at I would like to look more at option B.

 

look at players like ( but not restricted to P.Myers, Logan Stanley, Cernak, Dobson, Provorov as an example)

 

what would your approach be and who would look to get 

My ideal defense for the next two seasons would be as follows:

 

2021-2022:

 

Hughes-Larsson (sign Larsson)

Rathbone-Schmidt (or Schmidt-Myers)

Juolevi-Myers (or Rathbone-Bowey)

 

Hamonic replaces Schmidt if we are moving on from Schmidt 

 

2022-2023:

 

Lindholm-Schmidt 

Hughes-Larsson

Rathbone-Myers (or Juolevi-Myers)

 

Hamonic replaces Schmidt if we are moving on from Schmidt.