Roberto Luongo to be inducted into Canucks Ring of Honour

[204CanucksFan]

3 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

Every situation is different.

 

Linden is essentially Mr. Canuck to a lot of people, heart and soul of the franchise.

 

Smyl played most of his career in the 80's when the Canucks didn't have much a history. Not to mention full 10+ year career in Vancouver and captain.

 

Bure was a generational talent that led the league in goals 3 times, once as a Canuck.

 

Sedins... self-explanatory. 

 

I'm not saying Luongo doesn't have a case, but I rather the criteria be more strict, at least going forward.

Just wondering what qualifies for a goalie in your estimation then?

 

I get the point that he played most of his career in Florida but he is still our franchise leader in: Wins, Shutouts, GAA and Save % (min 100 games played) and he's 2nd in Games Played, Shots Against and Saves.

 

Like I said in a previous post, I don't think he deserves to have his number or jersey retired or anything but ROH seems appropriate for all he accomplished as a Canuck.

[204CanucksFan]

5 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

ROH

 

He's played more games as a Canuck than any other inductee, in fact he's fourth all time with 925

 

He holds several Canucks D records

 

I dunno how you don't 

 

 

Jeeze. My bad. Sorry. 

Edited December 1, 2022 by 204CanucksFan
Stupidity

[IBatch]

20 minutes ago, WalkWithElias said:

Bure played here for 7 years , Luongo 8 …. 

Bure was a once in a lifetime, not just a generation player.   We won't see another Bure, the same way we won't see another Lindros, Gretzky, Orr or Mario - simply unique.    Watching him put Russia on his back and scoring 10 goals despite not having much else to work with ... Recently the past 39 games, Horvat is close to scoring at the same rate ... Bure did that for his entire career.   Not the same.   He was a one line terror (didn't matter who they put with his line).    And did it when guys could hit, slash, grab on and hold.   Our current playoff reffing is actually not even on par with that by a long shot, with his era's regular season games.   Bure would get us three or four power plays each game today.   Easy.   

 

Edit:  As for Luongo.   ROH is exactly where he should be.   Bure a tier above.   And anyone who doesn't think Smyl should be there, wasn't around for his era either (absolutely deserves to be a banner).    He was actually a pit bull.    Today or back then, every team in the league would love to have him on their team.  Broduer..  Snepsts ... Gino.   There are guys that haven't been recognized for their role that deserve recognition still as well.   

Edited December 1, 2022 by IBatch

[Provost]

25 minutes ago, Hairy Kneel said:

I didn't like that he maximized our cap penalty by his ltir or retirement decisions. He could have helped us but didn't. For that I say hang his banner above the men's washroom in the walkway. Et tu Lu, et tu. 

There was just a story by Satiar Shaw that Tallon offered the Canucks to take Luongo back and put him on LTIR and save the cap hit.  Benning declined the offer.

 

If that is true it does change a lot of how I feel about how it went down.

[Kevin Biestra]

10 hours ago, Westcoasting said:

Not that this is a bad thing but Lui is the first goalie elected into the hall of fame without a Vezina, or a Stanley cup, or even a first team all star that I can remember, am I missing anyone? So he is going into the ROH as the best goalie we’ve ever had. But he was never actually best in the league any year.

 

9 hours ago, 4petesake said:

I don’t think Eddie Giacomin had any hardware. Nobody else comes to mind - oh, except Tretiak by default.

 

edit: just looked it up and Giacomin did have a Vezina.

 

Giacomin has a Vezina but that was from when the Vezina was basically what the Jennings is now.  There wasn't a Vezina as we know it until around 1982.  Rogie Vachon is in the same boat as Giacomin and the HOF.  I am sure there are a few more that have "old Vezinas" and no 1st team All Stars (being the 1st Team All Star as a goalie was basically the modern Vezina back then and Giacomin had a couple).

 

As for goalies since the modern criteria for the Vezina came into existence...Luongo might be the only one, making it pretty wild that he got in on the first ballot too.  But 1000 games for a goalie is an extraordinarily rare feat.

 

I'm still waiting on Mike Vernon and Tom Barrasso.  If they aren't in, will probably be a while before we see someone else with no Vezina and no Cup inducted.  Although the talk about Cujo never entirely disappears.

 

 

Edited December 1, 2022 by Kevin Biestra

[GB5]

5 minutes ago, Provost said:

There was just a story by Satiar Shaw that Tallon offered the Canucks to take Luongo back and put him on LTIR and save the cap hit.  Benning declined the offer.

 

If that is true it does change a lot of how I feel about how it went down.

I saw the write up on Canucks Army referring to that story.

https://canucksarmy.com/news/report-canucks-rejected-opportunity-reacquire-roberto-luongo-ltir-purposes-panthers-before-retired-2019

 

The CA write up seems highly critical of Benning for not doing this but it doesn't delve into the reasons why the Canucks management chose to not go this route at that time.

I would prefer to now both sides of the story as opposed to simply being critical from the outside looking in before passing judgement.

[Kevin Biestra]

17 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Bure was a once in a lifetime, not just a generation player.   We won't see another Bure, the same way we won't see another Lindros, Gretzky, Orr or Mario - simply unique.    Watching him put Russia on his back and scoring 10 goals despite not having much else to work with ... Recently the past 39 games, Horvat is close to scoring at the same rate ... Bure did that for his entire career.   Not the same.   He was a one line terror (didn't matter who they put with his line).    And did it when guys could hit, slash, grab on and hold.   Our current playoff reffing is actually not even on par with that by a long shot, with his era's regular season games.   Bure would get us three or four power plays each game today.   Easy.   

 

Edit:  As for Luongo.   ROH is exactly where he should be.   Bure a tier above.   And anyone who doesn't think Smyl should be there, wasn't around for his era either (absolutely deserves to be a banner).    He was actually a pit bull.    Today or back then, every team in the league would love to have him on their team.  Broduer..  Snepsts ... Gino.   There are guys that haven't been recognized for their role that deserve recognition still as well.   

 

In full agreement across the board but happy to give you the good news that Snepsts is already in the ROH.

 

Questioning Smyl in the rafters just probably means someone wasn't following the Canucks at the time and just looked at his stat line.  Sure there will be a few that saw him play that might hold that opinion, but it will be a small proportion.

 

Luongo is a ROH man.  He and McLean should share the same fate with #1, whatever it is, and I would say it's a very strong ROH case.  Almost ROH and a half, which is kind of how I think of Bure.

 

As you say now that Luongo is taken care of, we can move on to unfinished business.

 

For me the slam dunks, as you probably know by now, are Brodeur, Boudrias, Odjick and Williams (and Edler when it's all over).  And I am more than willing to hear the case for Lidster, Ronning, Tanti, Lever, etc.

 

Bo is certainly on his way if he sticks around.

[Kevin Biestra]

1 hour ago, jyu said:

Edler? ROH or jersey retirement?

 

I love Edler and I would have loved to have seen him retire a Canuck. I disliked Benning's decisions to let Edler walk. 

 

But, I doubt his jersey gets retired. Even ROH, I doubt it's going to happen.

 

 

Edler in the ROH is a one hundred percent slam dunk guarantee.  The only way it doesn't happen is if we learn he was a serial killer or serial Cosby the whole time.  It's actually the easiest post-career honor prediction I can make with 100% confidence.

 

If he had reached 1000 games as a Canuck, I would have started to think about the jersey myself.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

33 minutes ago, Hairy Kneel said:

Asterisk*

Don't be obtuse.  Asterix doesn't get in before Obelix!

 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

Just now, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Edler in the ROH is a one hundred percent slam dunk guarantee.  The only way it doesn't happen is if we learn he was a serial killer or serial Cosby the whole time.  It's actually the easiest post-career honor prediction I can make with 100% confidence.

 

If he had reached 1000 games as a Canuck, I would have started to think about the jersey myself.

That wasn't his choice.  That was Jim Benning's choice to tell him to 'hit the bricks'.

[Kevin Biestra]

11 hours ago, lmm said:

maybe its cuz I'm older, but I bet I can easily name 20 goalies better that Luongo

Maybe retiring too many numbers without winning a cup is a curse for both the Sabres and Canucks

they may be out entry cousins, but they are not a franchise the Canucks should be looking to for validation

Plante

Dryden

Worsley

Esposito

Vachon

Cheevers

Parent

B Smith

Fuhr

Durnan

Thompson

Hainsworth

Roy

Hasek

M Brodeur

Tretiak

Dunc Wilson

 

Nice list but you forgot Frank Caprice and Curt Ridley.

[Kevin Biestra]

2 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

That wasn't his choice.  That was Jim Benning's choice to tell him to 'hit the bricks'.

 

Even if that's the case we don't induct or give awards for what could or would have been.  Barry Pederson without the shoulder injuries, Murray Bannerman if he hadn't been traded after 20 minutes of hockey, Rick Vaive if he had enjoyed his 50 goal seasons here, Glen Hanlon if he hadn't been traded away in 1980 or whenever, Troy Gamble without the concussions, Darcy Rota without the career ending injury which wasn't his choice either.  Nor was it the choice of Tony Tanti, Petri Skriko, Doug Lidster, Cliff Ronning or several other Canucks greats to be traded away or cast aside.  If Snepsts hadn't left Vancouver in 1984 or so the same way as Edler he would have had the rest of his games here (over 1000) and been an easy jersey retirement instead of ROH.

 

Also...Edler got good money and term in LA for where he was at in his career.  I don't know that he wasn't offered something to stay here and just took the more lucrative package.

Either way, Edler is a ROH longevity guy.  The only way he ever gets to the rafters for me is with great landmarks of longevity, e.g. the 4th guy to ever get to 1000 games in the uniform, and even then he is still maybe ROH.

 

 

Edited December 1, 2022 by Kevin Biestra

[NewbieCanuckFan]

2 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Even if that's the case we don't induct or give awards for what could or would have been.  Barry Pederson without the shoulder injuries, Murray Bannerman if he hadn't been traded after 20 minutes of hockey, Rick Vaive if he had enjoyed his 50 goal seasons here, Glen Hanlon if he hadn't been traded away in 1980 or whenever.  If Snepsts hadn't left Vancouver in 1984 or so the same way as Edler he would have had the rest of his games here (over 1000) and been an easy jersey retirement instead of ROH.

 

Also...Edler got good money and term in LA for where he was at in his career.  I don't know that he wasn't offered something to stay here and just took the more lucrative package.

Either way, Edler is a ROH longevity guy.  The only way he ever gets to the rafters for me is with great landmarks of longevity, e.g. the 4th guy to ever get to 1000 games in the uniform, and even then he is still maybe ROH.

Snepsts passing to Mike Bossy (right in the slot) disqualifies him imho.

 

(I'm kidding obviously )

[NewbieCanuckFan]

7 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Nice list but you forgot Frank Caprice and Curt Ridley.

Troy Gamble was held back because of politics.

[Kevin Biestra]

14 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Troy Gamble was held back because of politics.

 

People don't remember or if they weren't around for it don't even know, but Troy Gamble did to Kirk McLean exactly what Schneider did to Luongo.  In 1991, Gamble unseated McLean as the starter and had a better season than him.  Despite McLean having been a Vezina finalist in 1989 and almost beating Calgary in 1989, the city largely turned on McLean and wanted him traded away to make room for Gamble.  McLean did the opposite of Luongo...didn't ask for a trade or say his contract sucks or any of that...just worked hard in the offseason.  Then in the next three years he was a 2nd team All Star, Vezina finalist, 2x division champion as starter and Stanley Cup finalists setting multiple NHL records for goalies on that playoff run.

 

Sometimes you just have to take a bad year or a decision you don't like with a bit of grace and things sort themselves out.

 

If you want a goalie who really got kicked around by management like a tomato can, look no further than Marc Andre Fleury in both Pittsburgh and Vegas, where he was discarded for "the next guy" more than once and was always better than the next guy in the long run.  Luongo wasn't a victim at the end of his time in Vancouver.  He just got outplayed by another goalie and then he compounded the issues with his choices rather than minimizing them.

 

Edited December 1, 2022 by Kevin Biestra

[Kevin Biestra]

18 hours ago, King Heffy said:

I think they got it right here.  Still want Gino and Juice in the ROH too.

 

Gino belongs there for sure (and by implication Tiger Williams with him I would say).  Bieksa...I am not really against it but he is in a class of defensemen with Lidster, Kearns, Lumme, etc.  He doesn't really separate himself from them and I would have had Lidster above him at a minimum.  But I am not exactly saying "hell no" to Bieksa.

 

But Gino is a great call.  That kind of player doesn't exist anymore and should be honored as part of our history.  And while Tiger was that kind of player too, he was also an NHL all star, scored 35 goals in a season for the Canucks and scored more goals than Henrik Sedin in his career.

[-Vintage Canuck-]

 

[Kevin Biestra]

17 hours ago, grandmaster said:

He stole more games than I can remember, statistically led the Canucks in virtually every goalie record, back stopped us to a Final, was the number one goalie for the Canucks winning the Presidents trophy, won 2 gold medals in the Olympics, one of which was here in Vancouver (where he was the number one).
 

He is the HHOF for crying out loud. 
 

The guy needs his number retired.

 

What a disgrace. 

 

I don't think it's a disgrace.

 

Most of what you said...  Stole games, led the Canucks in every or virtually every goalie record, back stopped us to a Final...applies to two other goalies.  McLean is in the ROH and Brodeur doesn't even have that.

 

But the Canucks have two clear sets of lineages in team records.

 

Forwards:  Smyl --> Linden --> Sedins.

Goalies:  Brodeur --> McLean --> Luongo.

 

Holding team records...people forget.  People don't know that Brodeur was the runaway record holder before McLean and on this forum they shrug off Smyl's totals and records.  These guys were also once the greatest of all time for the Canucks.

 

Yeah Lu is a standalone with the President's Trophy and the Olympics.  But of the three goalies I mentioned...I would also have to say he was the standalone in meltdowns and the one I least trusted to win a big game.  By far.  You never knew if you were getting Ken Dryden Luongo or Dan Cloutier Luongo.  It certainly made things interesting...but he was a strange animal with his mental game.  He would either be a god or he would get the Yips.  Definitely the best goalie I have ever seen with a mental meltdown problem, but also the most mentally fragile great goalie I have ever seen.

 

 

Edited December 1, 2022 by Kevin Biestra

[Kevin Biestra]

16 hours ago, Smashian Kassian said:

Disagree, the Canucks wanted him gone, he didn't jump off the ship.

 

Not really so much.  It was Luongo who didn't want to be here when Schneider started in the playoffs instead of him in the first round.  It was never the same for Lu after that.  The relationship kept going but from that point forward he was like the wife who had been cheated on and was kind of grudgingly making it work.  Then Lu was shocked and not particularly happy when the Canucks traded away Schneider and recommitted to him.  Lu had moved on mentally already.  Granted, he kept showing up to work and good on him for that but he didn't want to be in Vancouver anymore.  The Torts Heritage Classic thing was just the last straw for him.

[-Vintage Canuck-]