[Signing] Sabres re-sign Kyle Okposo

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, Timråfan said:

It’s been said by people who actually seemed to know how he was used in Boston and Dallas and neither Green or WW used him like that.

One thing also was that he had a lot of pressure on himhere that he didn’t had earlier and that also took it’s toll especially since his own goal that came at the worst moment.

Similar like when DiPietro played against the Sharks and Green hang him out to dry.

We played a very offensive game against ghe Sharks when we should have helped DiPietro more.

Green wasn't nearly as bad as people make him out to be.   For some ridiculous reason, they had some strange fallacy that during the worst part of our cycle, we should have won more games.   JB took away all his best PKers.   He had the choice of working on that and finding the best bottom six guys and the 12-13th man, or using the pre-season to get the massive roster change sorted out.   He went with the PKers.   Didn't help much lol.  Chiasson was the best choice it turned out, we lost Gadj which pissed me off.      

 

LE was a good PKer ... so was Roussel and Beagle.   Our PK sucked and still does.   But you don't pay 6 million for that Timra.    And Green gave LE the best guys he had at the time in the top six for to bulk of his time with us, including PP time until we had better options.   Same with WD.   Even 20/20 would have been ok.   But LE couldn't do it.   Green can't play for him.   And well, he lost his job because Brock and EP and even Horvat weren't that good his final season.   Every single year, Green went through a phase where he got the team back on track (and should be credited for Brocks rookie year, EPs too to a degree, and for sure Pearson's resurgence).   And was even doing that just before he got the boot (won the last 2 of 3).   Of our forwards only Miller and Garland showed up ready to play his last season.  

 

And was constantly trying to get JV going as well.   Showed up every camp out of shape.   We had massive issues with this - thankfully Tochett is here now and hopefully they will listen to him.   Even the announcers were saying at the time Bruce had his bump, all these defensive structured lessons Green was trying to instil, don't just go away with a coaching change.   Bruce loosened them up and blew all the steam out of the room "just go out and play and have fun" etc - at the right time.   It worked.   Until he had to deal with the same stupid things Green had to do his entire time with us.   A group of guys who come into camp not ready to play.    Aside from just a few.    Miller joined the ranks this time ... and how did that go for him?  And experienced coach with a better roster then Green rarely  had to work with.... Not well.  

 

Why people think Green should have a better record is a head scratcher.   He did get a perfect storm, and won and played in more playoff games than any coach we've had aside from Quin, Nielson and AV, one year exactly each.   Fourth most in our whole history lol.   

 

Tochett is friends with Green and called him a "good coach".   You don't get to the NHL, if you aren't a "good coach".   And he did put his time in as well.   Two different levels.    Which people don't seem to get.   Two other teams wanted him at the time as well.    Not sure why people are expecting a great record, when the roster is full of holes.   His roster, for the most part was way below average.   Personally feel he coached above the par level of the results of the roster.   It's also why we didn't ever bottom out completely.   That and, JB brought in Miller and Myers and tried to cheat the rebuild curve.   It worked.  We got cheated from best odds of a first overall.   The lotto did too really.   Before Myers?  Well Stetcher was probably the best of a group of guys like Sbisa, Hutton, Del Zotto and Guddy.    Yikes.   

 

As for "how LE was used in Boston".   I liked him in Dallas.  Was a great player.   Boston was ok but not as productive too.   Never expected a 30 goal year to year two way guy, but given his age, and his pedigree, definitely expected 2-3 years of 25/25, and with the Sedins still decent, and a good Worlds with them, was hoping for more.   What we got?  Nothing like that.    Wasn't the coach.   He had 3 different coaches during his contract.   

Edited May 29, 2023 by IBatch

[Timråfan]

3 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Green wasn't nearly as bad as people make him out to be.   For some ridiculous reason, they had some strange fallacy that during the worst part of our cycle, we should have won more games.   JB took away all his best PKers.   He had the choice of working on that and finding the best bottom six guys and the 12-13th man, or using the pre-season to get the massive roster change sorted out.   He went with the PKers.   Didn't help much lol.  Chiasson was the best choice it turned out, we lost Gadj which pissed me off.      

 

LE was a good PKer ... so was Roussel and Beagle.   Our PK sucked and still does.   But you don't pay 6 million for that Timra.    And Green gave LE the best guys he had at the time in the top six for to bulk of his time with us, including PP time until we had better options.   Same with WD.   Even 20/20 would have been ok.   But LE couldn't do it.   Green can't play for him.   And well, he lost his job because Brock and EP and even Horvat weren't that good his final season.   Every single year, Green went through a phase where he got the team back on track (and should be credited for Brocks rookie year, EPs too to a degree, and for sure Pearson's resurgence).   And was even doing that just before he got the boot (won the last 2 of 3).   Of our forwards only Miller and Garland showed up ready to play his last season.  

 

And was constantly trying to get JV going as well.   Showed up every camp out of shape.   We had massive issues with this - thankfully Tochett is here now and hopefully they will listen to him.   Even the announcers were saying at the time Bruce had his bump, all these defensive structured lessons Green was trying to instil, don't just go away with a coaching change.   Bruce loosened them up and blew all the steam out of the room "just go out and play and have fun" etc - at the right time.   It worked.   Until he had to deal with the same stupid things Green had to do his entire time with us.   A group of guys who come into camp not ready to play.    Aside from just a few.    Miller joined the ranks this time ... and how did that go for him?  And experienced coach with a better roster then Green rarely  had to work with.... Not well.  

 

Why people think Green should have a better record is a head scratcher.   He did get a perfect storm, and won and played in more playoff games than any coach we've had aside from Quin, Nielson and AV, one year exactly each.   Fourth most in our whole history lol.   

 

Tochett is friends with Green and called him a "good coach".   You don't get to the NHL, if you aren't a "good coach".   And he did put his time in as well.   Two different levels.    Which people don't seem to get.   Two other teams wanted him at the time as well.    Not sure why people are expecting a great record, when the roster is full of holes.   His roster, for the most part was way below average.   Personally feel he coached above the par level of the results of the roster.   It's also why we didn't ever bottom out completely.   That and, JB brought in Miller and Myers and tried to cheat the rebuild curve.   It worked.  We got cheated from best odds of a first overall.   The lotto did too really.   Before Myers?  Well Stetcher was probably the best of a group of guys like Sbisa, Hutton, Del Zotto and Guddy.    Yikes.   

 

As for "how LE was used in Boston".   I liked him in Dallas.  Was a great player.   Boston was ok but not as productive too.   Never expected a 30 goal year to year two way guy, but given his age, and his pedigree, definitely expected 2-3 years of 25/25, and with the Sedins still decent, and a good Worlds with them, was hoping for more.   What we got?  Nothing like that.    Wasn't the coach.   He had 3 different coaches during his contract.   

You still don’t seem to know as much as the one talking about how he was used before, system/strategy.

You haven’t spoken of thise aspect he refered to.

[IBatch]

26 minutes ago, Timråfan said:

You still don’t seem to know as much as the one talking about how he was used before, system/strategy.

You haven’t spoken of thise aspect he refered to.

Explain to me then, how his production was cut in half his first season with us, and more than that thereafter?    He was still getting top line minutes his first season.   First line PP time too.   And if you take the average middle six guy, and gift them first line PP time, most of the time their production goes up significantly.   Seen this all the time.   We saw it with Miller, getting first line minutes.    Stephen Weiss, middle six guy in Detroit, 40ish points established range, goes to Florida, top line minutes 65 plus etc.   Both Vegas and Seattle, other easy recent examples.    Reality is, LE rested on his laurels.    And a lot of his "production" happened when the goalie was pulled - the empty net warrior.  8-11 goals...for six million dollars ... yikes.   Playing mostly in the top six.   It had more to do with less talented players around him than coaching, and mostly to do with him as a player.  He bears the bulk of the reponsibility!   Others, when called out, actually did great.   Both Seguin and Benn did by their owner, and after that their production went right back to their norm, and they even went to the final....food for thought.  He made some stupid comments about his inability to produce having to do with the coach - after years of getting all the minutes others would kill for.   Think about that for a minute.    After for years defending LE to a degree on the CDC, he goes home and complains about his minutes etc!   Good grief, if he had some of the coaches I grew up with, he'd have been benched, or if his contract allowed for it, maybe buried in the minors as a tactic to see if he'd respond.    Nobody in the organization ever publicly called him out either.   NYR, they tied to bury Redden, after being a top 3 guy for years, signing a deal and then floating resting on his laurels etc. 

 

Pearson outproduced him ... and he's a career middle six guy, who also was "gifted" top six minutes 5 x 5.   And actually earned his paycheque, yet still folks felt he wasn't doing enough.   The reality still is, he came here and way underperformed his contract.   And for sure that hurt the team.  Coach Green, was absolutely on the money, that the best way to play LE, was on the PK.   His defensive game was still good.    The rest - well it just wasn't there anymore.   For that amount of money you expect some production.    LE was a line driver early in his career in Dallas, why that trade was actually ok at the time.   Look at how well Seguin did though.   Much better,  under the same coach!

 

Also I was one of the few guys that defended LE during his time here, as that he still had value, especially on the PK.   By the end that was it really though.   Didn't do enough to earn much ice time his last season with us. 

Edited May 29, 2023 by IBatch

[Timråfan]

14 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Explain to me then, how his production was cut in half his first season with us, and more than that thereafter?    He was still getting top line minutes his first season.   First line PP time too.   And if you take the average middle six guy, and gift them first line PP time, most of the time their production goes up significantly.   Seen this all the time.   We saw it with Miller, getting first line minutes.    Stephen Weiss, middle six guy in Detroit, 40ish points established range, goes to Florida, top line minutes 65 plus etc.   Both Vegas and Seattle, other easy recent examples.    Reality is, LE rested on his laurels.    And a lot of his "production" happened when the goalie was pulled - the empty net warrior.  8-11 goals...for six million dollars ... yikes.   Playing mostly in the top six.   It had more to do with less talented players around him than coaching, and mostly to do with him as a player.  He bears the bulk of the reponsibility!   Others, when called out, actually did great.   Both Seguin and Benn did by their owner, and after that their production went right back to their norm, and they even went to the final....food for thought.  He made some stupid comments about his inability to produce having to do with the coach - after years of getting all the minutes others would kill for.   Think about that for a minute. 

 

Pearson outproduced him ... and he's a career middle six guy, who also was "gifted" top six minutes 5 x 5.   And actually earned his paycheque, yet still folks felt he wasn't doing enough.   The reality still is, he came here and way underperformed his contract.   And for sure that hurt the team.  Coach Green, was absolutely on the money, that the best way to play LE, was on the PK.   His defensive game was still good.    The rest - well it just wasn't there anymore.   For that amount of money you expect some production.    LE was a line driver early in his career in Dallas, why that trade was actually ok at the time.   Look at how well Seguin did though.   Much better,  under the same coach!

 

Also I was one of the few guys that defended LE during his time here, as that he still had value, especially on the PK.   By the end that was it really though.   Didn't do enough to earn much ice time his last season with us. 

We have to get the other guy back into this discussion about LE. 
Neither of us know enough it seems. 
I can just guess it depends on how the coach want the player to play/rotate and that here LE played a style he wasn’t suited for. 
Only my 2 cents or even one if you like…

[IBatch]

Just now, Timråfan said:

We have to get the other guy back into this discussion about LE. 
Neither of us know enough it seems. 
I can just guess it depends on how the coach want the player to play/rotate and that here LE played a style he wasn’t suited for. 
Only my 2 cents or even one if you like…

Peace Timra.  You and I have a history of defending guys.    And we're the only two that understood how EP was actually "discovered", and where the gratitude and props should be going after JB have the credit to Delorme.   I'm grateful you are a Canuck fan, and even more grateful that you have an inside track on everything Swedish.   Vancouver has to have the best connection do any NHL team to your home country, and I for one think that's a competitive advantage I hope we honour and keep up.   Gradin, Sundstrom, Ohlund, Edler, and of course the Sedins, Naslund and now it looks like EP... wow! 

[higgyfan]

Okposo has been a solid signing for Buffalo.  A great addition for a rebuilding team and a terrific veteran.

leader. Just yesterday I was reading an article about how Okposo and Girgensons were teaching Krebs to

play a physical and more complete game.  Krebs commented that his linemates had convinced him that

he had the ability to add a defensive side to his already terrific offence.  He has also added 'agitator/pest'

to his game. 

[AnthonyG]

On 5/29/2023 at 6:27 AM, IBatch said:

Green wasn't nearly as bad as people make him out to be.   For some ridiculous reason, they had some strange fallacy that during the worst part of our cycle, we should have won more games.   JB took away all his best PKers.   He had the choice of working on that and finding the best bottom six guys and the 12-13th man, or using the pre-season to get the massive roster change sorted out.   He went with the PKers.   Didn't help much lol.  Chiasson was the best choice it turned out, we lost Gadj which pissed me off.      

 

LE was a good PKer ... so was Roussel and Beagle.   Our PK sucked and still does.   But you don't pay 6 million for that Timra.    And Green gave LE the best guys he had at the time in the top six for to bulk of his time with us, including PP time until we had better options.   Same with WD.   Even 20/20 would have been ok.   But LE couldn't do it.   Green can't play for him.   And well, he lost his job because Brock and EP and even Horvat weren't that good his final season.   Every single year, Green went through a phase where he got the team back on track (and should be credited for Brocks rookie year, EPs too to a degree, and for sure Pearson's resurgence).   And was even doing that just before he got the boot (won the last 2 of 3).   Of our forwards only Miller and Garland showed up ready to play his last season.  

 

And was constantly trying to get JV going as well.   Showed up every camp out of shape.   We had massive issues with this - thankfully Tochett is here now and hopefully they will listen to him.   Even the announcers were saying at the time Bruce had his bump, all these defensive structured lessons Green was trying to instil, don't just go away with a coaching change.   Bruce loosened them up and blew all the steam out of the room "just go out and play and have fun" etc - at the right time.   It worked.   Until he had to deal with the same stupid things Green had to do his entire time with us.   A group of guys who come into camp not ready to play.    Aside from just a few.    Miller joined the ranks this time ... and how did that go for him?  And experienced coach with a better roster then Green rarely  had to work with.... Not well.  

 

Why people think Green should have a better record is a head scratcher.   He did get a perfect storm, and won and played in more playoff games than any coach we've had aside from Quin, Nielson and AV, one year exactly each.   Fourth most in our whole history lol.   

 

Tochett is friends with Green and called him a "good coach".   You don't get to the NHL, if you aren't a "good coach".   And he did put his time in as well.   Two different levels.    Which people don't seem to get.   Two other teams wanted him at the time as well.    Not sure why people are expecting a great record, when the roster is full of holes.   His roster, for the most part was way below average.   Personally feel he coached above the par level of the results of the roster.   It's also why we didn't ever bottom out completely.   That and, JB brought in Miller and Myers and tried to cheat the rebuild curve.   It worked.  We got cheated from best odds of a first overall.   The lotto did too really.   Before Myers?  Well Stetcher was probably the best of a group of guys like Sbisa, Hutton, Del Zotto and Guddy.    Yikes.   

 

As for "how LE was used in Boston".   I liked him in Dallas.  Was a great player.   Boston was ok but not as productive too.   Never expected a 30 goal year to year two way guy, but given his age, and his pedigree, definitely expected 2-3 years of 25/25, and with the Sedins still decent, and a good Worlds with them, was hoping for more.   What we got?  Nothing like that.    Wasn't the coach.   He had 3 different coaches during his contract.   

So I’m gunna hit you back on this a bit more when I get some time in the next day or so. I like what you wrote, I see some things from a different perspective though. 
 

LE was put in a position to fail by Green/WD, but it was a position for the team to have better chance at success over LEs personal success. That’s not a knock on WD or Green or even LE. Looking at his TOI and his top linemates plus his zone starts, it was not a recipe for success.

His first season only 31% of his 5v5 TOI was with the twins…. The year after was less again.

Same with his PP combinations. 40% with the Sedins and Sutter his first season which was his #1 combination and then his next combo dropped to 15% so there was a primary focus of him spending his time with the twins on the PP

2017-18 his #1 PP line combination was Baertschi, Gagner, Vanek at 32% of the time

after that it was a steep drop to Vanek+Goldobin+Gagner 10% of the time. He spent almost no time on the PP with the twins in his 2nd season.

 

The twins #1 PP combination in 2016-17 was Baertschi and Sutter at 27% of the time compared to LE’s 40% with them. Though LE was on their 2nd highest PP line combo at 26%

 

The following season needs not be mentioned as in LEs PP combo’s its self explanatory.

 

Of course injuries DID also affect these numbers. But ultimately they realized LE suited the teams chance at success better defensively than offensively, because leaving the youth to take care of the Dzone hurt us more.

 

Yes you are damn right the roster was GLIT (half glue half sh*t) and Green did his best with what he had, which is why I believe it was just an unfortunate situation for everyone involved and why some guys careers really took a dip. But thats not fair to blame on anyone imo other than the state of the organization that Gillis left us in (understandably going all in for a cup) it was the price we had to pay for *almost* winning a cup. How was Benning to give Green anything better to work with? How was Green to work with what he had? How was that team to produce with what they lacked?