nuckfanfromafrica Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 I’ve been really impressed with the moves, Alvin & co, have made so far this offseason - they've shown restraint by not overpaying on dollars & term in free Agency. The moves have been calculated, forward looking and aimed at not cap strapping the team in the near future. I hope they remain discipline and stay the course. Chasing sexy acquisitions like, Brett Pesce & co, appear enticing however is shortsighted. Reasons been: Recency bias: team structure and environment can at times over inflate the effectiveness of that same player on a different team. Comes with a high degree of risk that may become a huge anchor. Ex Messier acquisitions like this at this time will require giving up huge assets (1ST round pick(s), Top tier prospects). Assets that will be on attractive entry level contracts to balance out higher ticket items. The contract and/or extension eats up a huge portion of the team salary cap without necessarily putting the team over the top. This hampers the ability of the team to build a strong supporting cast. Pettersson, Hronek, Kuzmenko etc will require big extensions shortly. Cap space management will be key to maintaining a quality team moving forward. Generally competitive teams are built around elite Goaltending or tandem, elite Center, Elite Dman, and quality complementary depth that are above average in their respective roles. All these recent Championship teams (Vegas, Colorado, Tampa, LA) had that. Quality depth requires strong internal prospect development program. Teams lacking this, require cap flexibility to acquire the necessary depth to contend. Teams that struggle to get over the hump tend to be teams that are heavily committed to just a few big ticket items and not enough cap to ice above average quality complimentary pieces. Ex Toronto, Edmonton etc. The stated objective of this Management were: Drafting well and developing prospects Getting heavier and bigger Revamping D having quality depth both on team and in the farm clearing cap space and continuing to be efficient with cap management moving forward That said some prudent moves IMHO will be: 1. Target David Savard (6’1” 234lbs RD) via trade: On a reasonably contract for another 2yrs and in line with our recent Dman signings. Scouting Report: A prototypical defensive defenseman, he is reliable in a shutdown role but will not contribute much offense. Moves the puck well and is a rugged, fearless shot blocker who will get in front of anything. He was never fast and figures to lose a little bit of speed now that he is on the far side of 30, but remains capable of playing 20-plus minutes per game. He fills that complementary role alongside an elite puckmoving defenseman like Hughes at a fraction of the cost without a significant drop in productivity. Adds the stated goal of added toughness, 5v5 & special teams defense. The added savings from slightly similar production can be used to balance out the rest of the line number with everyone falling in line. Trade bait Anthony Beauvillier, Jack Rathbone & 2024 4th (Min). MTL acquires a younger puck mover that can develop with their young core along with a serviceable forward that they can flip at the deadline. In addition to the complementary intangibles that Savard adds to the team, Vancouver also clears cap space that is required to activate Tanner off LIR and opens up roster space for a young entry level prospects 2. Sign a Veteran Versatile Right shot Center/Winger on a 1yr deal Target: Oskar Sundqvist (Swede) C/RW 6’3” 220 Scouting Report The towering Swedish forward has great size and he knows how to use it to play a consistent physical game. Is fearless despite a couple of major injuries during his NHL career, and is more than willing to sacrifice his body in order to win. Is not a gifted offensive player but can produce enough points to be useful in a bottom-six forward role. Can play either wing or center Roster Composition Feature key prospects (Hoglander, Podkolzin, Raty) in prominent roles. Roll 4 balance lines. A rugged line that can inject energy and forecheck Line of the future to build chemistry and repetition A rugged line that can inject energy and forecheck Keep Myers (on a contract year) Special Teams Penalty kill options at Tail end: Pettersson & Miller. Suggested additions: 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 Roster moves seem fine, but you're taking two forwards who couldn't make the team last year and placing them on the first line. Rebuilding teams do that. Kuzmenko and Mikheyev have earned the right to play in the top six. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Lasso Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 Well thought out, solid targets, and like that you don’t trade away futures, and give the kids a chance to play. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuckfanfromafrica Posted July 3, 2023 Author Share Posted July 3, 2023 Just now, Bob.Loblaw said: you're taking two forwards who couldn't make the team last year and placing them on the first line. Rebuilding teams do that. Kuzmenko and Mikheyev have earned the right to play in the top six. Agreed. Kuzmenko and Mikheyev have earned their respective spots. The line composition are based more on having balance through out the line up. Both insulating a big young centerman in Raty. Mikheyev providing veteran defensive presence and forecheck. Kuzmenko adding scoring punch. Pettersson has the pedigree of carrying a line. Much improved Pods & Hogs. Both had a down sophmore year. They have the making of a future dominant line if given the time to mature together. The team needs an infusion of youth in more prominent roles. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Goose Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 Raty has proven anything yet, and he definitely hasnt beaten my boy Aman out of a roster spot. Big fat L for that one 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuckfanfromafrica Posted July 3, 2023 Author Share Posted July 3, 2023 Just now, Angry Goose said: Raty has proven anything yet, and he definitely hasnt beaten my boy Aman out of a roster spot. Big fat L for that one Aman is a good prospect and a good call up prospect. He had a good surprising rookie year. An acquisition of Blueger & Oskar makes him a bit redundant. Aaty has a higher ceiling offensively and playmaking. Adjusted stats indicates Aaty is the superior player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownUndaCanuck Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 Yeah I really like Sundqvist, I think he's got all the right tools, he just didn't have the best defensive game in Detroit for some reason. Big body, relatively young, put up some points, was a menace to play against at times so could go one of two ways - Tocchet could structure his defensive game, or he could just end up in the dog-house most nights for defensive mistakes. I wanted to take a flyer on him though. As for Savard, I get the interest but with just signing Cole, we don't need another relatively old, big body on defence. I think Cole will fill that role of top-4 RD - he can play quite comfortably on the right side and will surely slot in with Hughes, but because he is a lefty, can play on the left top pairing on the PK so I think Allvin has thought a lot about this. Having a versatile defensive defenceman is so key for us right now. Hughes - Cole Soucy - Hronek Hirose - Myers But then PK: Cole - Myers Soucy - Hronek Will end up being a nice share of minutes quite evenly that way, with Hughes and Hronek on the first and 2nd PP respectively. One thing I would say is boy, we'd be on another level with a true 20+ minute defenceman. Soucy averaged 16 minutes last year and is now our 2nd best LD. Cole averaged 19 minutes a night. Realistically Hughes is still our only 20+ minute guy. Myers wouldn't have gotten 20+ minutes on any playoff team, so we're far from saved. Hronek is the only other guy there. Adding one top-4 20+ minute guy would take us to a contender level. That's why I think we should target a guy like Hanifin or Pesce or even Peeke to a lesser degree. Sure, they push Hirose and Rathbone and Irwin into the pressbox or AHL, but I'm cautious of giving Soucy and Cole top-40 20+ minutes when they have barely played them before. We could do well with the combination, but we could easily suck. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Goose Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 33 minutes ago, nuckfanfromafrica said: Aman is a good prospect and a good call up prospect. He had a good surprising rookie year. An acquisition of Blueger & Oskar makes him a bit redundant. Aaty has a higher ceiling offensively and playmaking. Adjusted stats indicates Aaty is the superior player. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTramFan Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 Love the idea of Sundqvist. But I think Savard is well past it now. He did not show well on a stacked TB team in the 2021 playoffs while logging sheltered minutes on a contending team. He has not impressed for the last 2 seasons in Montreal with even strength on-ice GA/60 of 3.4 and short handed on-ice GA/60 of 10.0. These are very similar stats to Myers, who we wouldn't want to put on a top pairing with Hughes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, nuckfanfromafrica said: Agreed. Kuzmenko and Mikheyev have earned their respective spots. The line composition are based more on having balance through out the line up. Both insulating a big young centerman in Raty. Mikheyev providing veteran defensive presence and forecheck. Kuzmenko adding scoring punch. Pettersson has the pedigree of carrying a line. Much improved Pods & Hogs. Both had a down sophmore year. They have the making of a future dominant line if given the time to mature together. The team needs an infusion of youth in more prominent roles. Pettersson is our star player. He's not our development coach. Young Kesler and Sedins didn't develop their games by playing on the first lines. Podkolzin and Hoglander are going to get eaten alive by opposing star players. Look at Beauvillier - he was okay but not good enough to play with Pettersson. You put the 40-goal scorer (Kuzmenko) on the first line where he belongs. You put the prospects where they belong - hopefully on the main team, but the AHL if necessary. 1 hour ago, DownUndaCanuck said: Yeah I really like Sundqvist, I think he's got all the right tools, he just didn't have the best defensive game in Detroit for some reason. Big body, relatively young, put up some points, was a menace to play against at times so could go one of two ways - Tocchet could structure his defensive game, or he could just end up in the dog-house most nights for defensive mistakes. I wanted to take a flyer on him though. As for Savard, I get the interest but with just signing Cole, we don't need another relatively old, big body on defence. I think Cole will fill that role of top-4 RD - he can play quite comfortably on the right side and will surely slot in with Hughes, but because he is a lefty, can play on the left top pairing on the PK so I think Allvin has thought a lot about this. Having a versatile defensive defenceman is so key for us right now. 53 minutes ago, BigTramFan said: Love the idea of Sundqvist. But I think Savard is well past it now. He did not show well on a stacked TB team in the 2021 playoffs while logging sheltered minutes on a contending team. He has not impressed for the last 2 seasons in Montreal with even strength on-ice GA/60 of 3.4 and short handed on-ice GA/60 of 10.0. These are very similar stats to Myers, who we wouldn't want to put on a top pairing with Hughes. Sundqvist hasn't been the same because of his ACL injury in 2021. He played a tough physical game and it's worn him down. Same problem with David Savard. That physical brand of hockey hasn't aged him well at all. He's really floundered playing top minutes for the Habs. To be fair he's been asked to do too much on such a trash team. People are expecting CBJ Savard but they're going to get MTL Savard, and that's not a good thing. Edited July 3, 2023 by Bob.Loblaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTramFan Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 1 hour ago, Bob.Loblaw said: Sundqvist hasn't been the same because of his ACL injury in 2021. He played a tough physical game and it's worn him down. Strange that your chart suggests Sundqvist is no good. I'd take a $800k C/RW at 6'3" 220lb that put up 28 pts last season playing 4th line minutes any day. Essentially he's an upgrade on Joshua (better offensively, better defensively). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Goose Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 17 minutes ago, BigTramFan said: Strange that your chart suggests Sundqvist is no good. I'd take a $800k C/RW at 6'3" 220lb that put up 28 pts last season playing 4th line minutes any day. Essentially he's an upgrade on Joshua (better offensively, better defensively). counting stats wise yes, but last year was also AJs first full nhl year. Sundqvist plays a lot like Granlund. And most importantly Joshua has good chemistry w Aman. Id like to see how they look in year 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 49 minutes ago, BigTramFan said: Strange that your chart suggests Sundqvist is no good. I'd take a $800k C/RW at 6'3" 220lb that put up 28 pts last season playing 4th line minutes any day. Essentially he's an upgrade on Joshua (better offensively, better defensively). If there was a bravery stat, he would be 100th percentile. The man will put his body on the line and do whatever it takes to help the team out. Predictably, that hasn't translated over in regards to his longevity. He's very slow now and that's really hurt his on-ice performance. He wasn't deployed defensively at all in Detroit, which might account for his added production. Whoever signs him should expect Detroit Sundqvist and not the more robust STL Sunny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTramFan Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 55 minutes ago, Angry Goose said: counting stats wise yes, but last year was also AJs first full nhl year. Sundqvist plays a lot like Granlund. And most importantly Joshua has good chemistry w Aman. Id like to see how they look in year 2. Who is AJ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownUndaCanuck Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 Yeah I'm pretty sceptical about all these charts and advanced stats, the eye-test tells you he throws his body on the line most nights and plays with a lot of heart a bit like Garland, but then he's often out of position, reminds me a lot of Hoglander but a bit bigger and scores a bit. There's a reason he hasn't had money thrown at him yet, and more solidified guys like even Bleuger have contracts. I think Puis Suter is in the similar boat, I thought there was a period where these guys on the Red Wings were just dominating, such great depth centers, but maybe it was after the injury that it really slowed down, but then a lot of the Red Wings struggled later on too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTramFan Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 36 minutes ago, Bob.Loblaw said: If there was a bravery stat, he would be 100th percentile. The man will put his body on the line and do whatever it takes to help the team out. Predictably, that hasn't translated over in regards to his longevity. He's very slow now and that's really hurt his on-ice performance. He wasn't deployed defensively at all in Detroit, which might account for his added production. Whoever signs him should expect Detroit Sundqvist and not the more robust STL Sunny. Not sure what you mean "not deployed defensively at all" do you mean on the PK? Because he is not known as a PKer. But he puts up points with limited minutes and isn't a defensive liability. He was deployed on many different lines in DET with roughly 50/50 oZ/Dz starts. Also I thought he looked great in the 1 playoff game he got for Minny. Skated the length of the ice on the rush and made it to the net for the tap in. Not sure why they didn't use him more when E-Ek was injured because he played well in that game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 6 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said: Yeah I really like Sundqvist, I think he's got all the right tools, he just didn't have the best defensive game in Detroit for some reason. Big body, relatively young, put up some points, was a menace to play against at times so could go one of two ways - Tocchet could structure his defensive game, or he could just end up in the dog-house most nights for defensive mistakes. I wanted to take a flyer on him though. As for Savard, I get the interest but with just signing Cole, we don't need another relatively old, big body on defence. I think Cole will fill that role of top-4 RD - he can play quite comfortably on the right side and will surely slot in with Hughes, but because he is a lefty, can play on the left top pairing on the PK so I think Allvin has thought a lot about this. Having a versatile defensive defenceman is so key for us right now. Hughes - Cole Soucy - Hronek Hirose - Myers But then PK: Cole - Myers Soucy - Hronek Will end up being a nice share of minutes quite evenly that way, with Hughes and Hronek on the first and 2nd PP respectively. One thing I would say is boy, we'd be on another level with a true 20+ minute defenceman. Soucy averaged 16 minutes last year and is now our 2nd best LD. Cole averaged 19 minutes a night. Realistically Hughes is still our only 20+ minute guy. Myers wouldn't have gotten 20+ minutes on any playoff team, so we're far from saved. Hronek is the only other guy there. Adding one top-4 20+ minute guy would take us to a contender level. That's why I think we should target a guy like Hanifin or Pesce or even Peeke to a lesser degree. Sure, they push Hirose and Rathbone and Irwin into the pressbox or AHL, but I'm cautious of giving Soucy and Cole top-40 20+ minutes when they have barely played them before. We could do well with the combination, but we could easily suck. Don't mind the line combos, they hopefully figure that out in camp. But we have to get Myers off the first PK unit. That likely becomes Soucy - Cole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownUndaCanuck Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 35 minutes ago, IBatch said: Don't mind the line combos, they hopefully figure that out in camp. But we have to get Myers off the first PK unit. That likely becomes Soucy - Cole. Yeah but I think it depends how good Hronek is at killing penalties and what role he wants to take - offensive, defensive of both. If Soucy and Cole are paired together, it leaves the LD spot wide open. I suppose Hughes can play those 2nd PK minutes but he'll end up logging big minutes then. If Irwin is in the lineup, he can take 2nd unit PK minutes. If Hirose or Rathbone are in at LD yikes, keep them away from the PK. I wouldn't mind Hronek on the top PK over Myers. Cole - Hronek Soucy - Myers Hughes - Cole That's probably the rotation we could go with to keep ice time fairly even. Hronek gets 2nd unit PP time which will be hardly anything anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 8 hours ago, Angry Goose said: Raty has proven anything yet, and he definitely hasnt beaten my boy Aman out of a roster spot. Big fat L for that one Found Nils' agent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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