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President's Trophy Is A Product Of A Weak Division


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#1 Bobby_Lu1ngo

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 08:03 AM

What do you guys think?

In my opinion the canucks only came away with the presidents trophy this year because our division was so weak and we were able to take so many points from our division members.

Looking at the regular season standings it would be easy to say that the pacific division is a weak division but I think its the opposite, it may be one of the strongest division which is why the points are divided so evenly as they are playing each other for a majority of the year.

The Atlantic division is probably the strongest with 4 teams over 100 points and 3 teams still in the hunt for the cup.

The northwest division is weak with only the canucks as a legitimate cup contender but the presidents trophy gave the canucks loftier expectations. We faced a team that has been playing much harder games within their division all year and it's no surprise that they came in to the series guns a blazing while we continued to coast thinking we'd get victories like we have all year within the division. If the canucks were in any other division i doubt they would have been the top seeded team in all reality.

I just watch the way the canucks have played all year compared to these teams left in the playoffs and it's obvious there was a lack of tenacity and hunger to go out and get wins.

It's too bad because I think that the re-aligment of the conferences may have been the best thing for the canucks out of anything right now.
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#2 Real deal - Stan Smyl

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 08:12 AM

Tough pill for you Calgary and Edmonton fans, but true. More pushovers out west than in the east, makes for an easier ride to the prezcup.

#3 SukhKular

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 08:15 AM

The Avalanche dominated outside the NorthWest but couldn't win a divisional game to save their lives. Weird.
I'm saying Aladeen a lot because http://forum.canucks...dpost__10922428

I bet when Schneider turns 38, he will have broken all of Luongo's records.


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#4 TheCammer

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 08:29 AM

You can make the same case about pretty much every President's trophy winner. You have to win the games they schedule and we did a better job of that than anyone for the past two years. I don't understand why people feel it necessary to downplay the significance of the accomplishment.
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#5 Deamon852

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 08:29 AM

The Avalanche dominated outside the NorthWest but couldn't win a divisional game to save their lives. Weird.


I wouldn't exactly call 33-21-4 "Dominating"

#6 uber_pwnzor

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 08:35 AM

Another thread about this?

#7 Oregon Canucky

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 08:39 AM

I dont have the numbers but i thought our record was a bit better out of our division this year...

Seemed like we only played "up to the opponent's level" which lead to some strange (ugly) losses...
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#8 topbananas

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 08:40 AM

It took you until May 2012 to figure this out?
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#9 Kassian's Tooth

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 08:46 AM



#10 D-Money

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 08:51 AM

I wouldn't exactly call 33-21-4 "Dominating"


Maybe not, but that's a 99-point pace - better than Phoenix, San Jose, LA, Florida, Washington, or Ottawa.

Strange how in such a weak division, they couldn't at the very least keep up that pace.
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#11 zduck14

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 08:53 AM

If the Presidents trophy is only a product of a weak division, how do you explain New York finishing just 1 point behind Vancouver?

#12 goalie13

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 08:54 AM

It took you until May 2012 to figure this out?


No kidding. I thought this was one of the predictions going into the season. The Canucks were expected to have a fairly easy regular season based on the divisional games. The only surprising part was how Minnesota had some people fooled for the first couple of months.

And I don't think anyone had lofty expectations because of the President's Trophy. That was last year. This year was different. I know most people picked the Canucks to beat the Kings, but how many honestly thought they were likely to win the Cup this year? I know I didn't. I picked the Preds.
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#13 realnucksfan2010

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 09:02 AM

Good post, the OP pretty much nailed it, because we are in a weak div right now it has unfortunately caused our team to become lazy. It is good that they went out first round, maybe it will serve as a wake up call to the team and force them to refocus.
This is the best team Van has ever had, and there are huge expectations, hopefully they can live up to them,

#14 MadMonk

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 09:08 AM

I dont have the numbers but i thought our record was a bit better out of our division this year...


VS NW: 18-5-1 for 77% of possible points
vs rest of west: 22-11-7 for 64% of possible points
vs east: 11-6-1 for 64% of points

#15 RXnucks975

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 09:14 AM

Ha that's a fun fact about the Av; I know that we kicked their butts a ton this year. The Wild looked like they might be the real deal, but injuries killed them they don't have any depth. oh well it'll only get better if the move the jets into our division

#16 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 09:16 AM

The President's Trophy is more like a weak consolation prize. Nobody cares about it anymore. Cheers.


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#17 arcticcanuck

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 09:34 AM

If you take out the divisional games (for all teams) Vancouver would be 3rd in the west behind St. Louis and Detroit. So while they may have done well against their division, they also did well against the other divisions. Vancouver got 37 points from playing the NW division, but Calgary also got 33 points playing that division and look where they finished? Some teams do well against a certain style of play. It's hard to say if they were in a different divison that they wouldn't have won the Presidents trophy. They were 40-16-8 against the west. No one else in the west had a record that good against the west (again you can argue it was divisional games), except Nashville, who also dominated their own divison (which by your argument is a strong division). While I agree that it helped them win games down the stretch when they weren't playing as well as their potential, you can't over look the fact that they also had a good record against the stronger divisions. Canucks are out of the playoffs, which is unfortunate, but winning the season doesn't guaruntee anything when it comes to play offs. If you enter the playoffs hot, or had a good end to the season (like the Kings), or made some changes near the end that made your team better (like the Kings), your position doesn't necessarily reflect your ability. St. Louis is also down 2-0 to the Kings and they were really close to winning the president's trophy as well (in a strong division).

I say be proud of the accomplishments of the Canucks. There is no sense dissecting it and claiming they only did as well as they did due to their schedule (which is the toughest schedule travel wise in the league, but no one seems to be bringing that up and to me it was obvious that they were tired at the end of the season which was probably partly due to their schedule) and look forward to the potential for next season. They didn't win the Stanley Cup this year, doesn't mean they wont make a good run next year.

#18 SukhKular

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 09:40 AM

I wouldn't exactly call 33-21-4 "Dominating"


Maybe that was the wrong word. But still strange.

VS NW: 8-14-2 = Approx 38%
VS Rest of NHL: 33-21-4 = 60%

A drop of 22% efficiency against the "worst division in the NHL"

It was only a few years ago that the Northwest was the best division in the NHL.
I'm saying Aladeen a lot because http://forum.canucks...dpost__10922428

I bet when Schneider turns 38, he will have broken all of Luongo's records.


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#19 JamesB

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 09:57 AM

It is true that the playing in the Northwest Division probably allowed the Canucks to get 5 or 6 more points than they would have gotten playing in, say, the Pacific Division or the Central Division given they play 6 games against other division teams but only 4 against other Conference teams.

If the Canucks had swapped Divisions with, say, Chicago, Detroit, Nashville or St. Louis they probably would have swapped places in the overall standings as well. Take away 2 games each with Edmonton, Calgary, Colorado and Minnesota and replace them with two extra games against Nashville, Chicago, St. Louis and Detroit and life would be tougher.

Not to mention the fact that the Canucks had more than their share of good luck and good bounces down the stretch -- and then did not get the bounces in the playoffs.

This point has been made before, but it is true. No way the Canucks were the best regular season team this year. Top 5 maybe, but not the best.

This is one reason I cannot really understand all the talk about how great AV is for winning another President's Cup. I think the Canucks underperformed this year relative to the available talent and, in particular, were not ready for the playoffs -- basically throwing away the first two games and certainly not rising to the occasion. AV has to take responsibility for that.

#20 NuckFanLivingInCalgary:(

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 09:57 AM

Good post, the OP pretty much nailed it, because we are in a weak div right now it has unfortunately caused our team to become lazy. It is good that they went out first round, maybe it will serve as a wake up call to the team and force them to refocus.
This is the best team Van has ever had, and there are huge expectations, hopefully they can live up to them,


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#21 Hank33

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 10:08 AM

wow this is the first time i've heard this :bored: And anyways we won the presidents trophy two years in a row, so why are we trying to diminish this great accomplishment?

#22 CanucksSayEh

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 10:11 AM

Divisional games are always tough regardless of bottom feeder presence. Even the dominant Pittsburgh Steelers have a hard time with the Browns.

#23 Hotdawg

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 10:12 AM

That's a myth. There is no such thing as a weak division, or even a weak team.
The league is more balanced now than ever before.

Infact the North-west division, has a winning record against all 3 Eastern divisions combined.

NW Division vs 3 Eastern Divisions = 43 wins 33 losses 14 ot. (you call that weak ?)

If the league played all teams equally, you would see the Western teams with more points than the Eastern ones.

#24 Onions

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 10:19 AM

What do you guys think?

In my opinion the canucks only came away with the presidents trophy this year because our division was so weak and we were able to take so many points from our division members.

Looking at the regular season standings it would be easy to say that the pacific division is a weak division but I think its the opposite, it may be one of the strongest division which is why the points are divided so evenly as they are playing each other for a majority of the year.

The Atlantic division is probably the strongest with 4 teams over 100 points and 3 teams still in the hunt for the cup.

The northwest division is weak with only the canucks as a legitimate cup contender but the presidents trophy gave the canucks loftier expectations. We faced a team that has been playing much harder games within their division all year and it's no surprise that they came in to the series guns a blazing while we continued to coast thinking we'd get victories like we have all year within the division. If the canucks were in any other division i doubt they would have been the top seeded team in all reality.

I just watch the way the canucks have played all year compared to these teams left in the playoffs and it's obvious there was a lack of tenacity and hunger to go out and get wins.

It's too bad because I think that the re-aligment of the conferences may have been the best thing for the canucks out of anything right now.


VS CEN
11-6-3
point % 0.625

VS NW
18-5-1
point % 0.771

VS PAC
11-5-4
point % 0.650


Yeah we had a weak division but you don't in the prez cup just with a weak division.
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#25 Shift-4

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 10:21 AM

NW Division vs 3 Eastern Divisions = 43 wins 33 losses 14 ot. (you call that weak ?)



That means the Eastern teams had 47 wins
Hockey is the only sport, the rest are just games.

#26 Hotdawg

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 10:27 AM

That means the Eastern teams had 47 wins


Thanks Einstein, I mentioned points. North-West = 86 points
East = 80 points
Therefore we win !

#27 Shift-4

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 10:29 AM

Thanks Einstein, I mentioned points. North-West = 86 points
East = 80 points
Therefore we win !


You also said winning record which, in fact, they don't have against the East.


edit: and how do you get 86 points?
A record of 43-33-14 = 100 pts

Edited by Shift-4, 03 May 2012 - 10:31 AM.

Hockey is the only sport, the rest are just games.

#28 La Mauviette75

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 10:34 AM

If the Presidents trophy is only a product of a weak division, how do you explain New York finishing just 1 point behind Vancouver?


This discrepancy can be explained by the fact that New York is a better team, which i think is the point of the OP is making.

I don't think anyone's saying NY is lightyears ahead of Vancouver or the opposite. But when you look at the margin, and you see that NY and Vancouver finished with basically the same number of points, and then you look at the opponents they had to play, it's pretty clear who had the harder schedule.


The truth is, when you play in a division with weak teams, you get a much better chance than playing in a division with three otherserious stanley cup contenders. Even the worst team of the atlantic division (islanders) isn't as bad as the oilers. So, judging on new york's record, it's fair to say that they probably would have had at least a couple more points if they played in the weak weak division the canucks do, which you mean they would win the president's trophy.

regardless, no one is really diminishing the accomplishment this award represents, since no one really cares about the award, except for occasionally the team who wins it. Most of the buildings that i've been to only have one banner that lists all their presidents trophies, rather than one for each year, which shows how unimportant it really is.

Edited by La Mauviette75, 03 May 2012 - 10:37 AM.

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#29 TotesMagotes

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 10:45 AM

Guess what? We only played teams in our division 2 more times than the rest of the conference.

Besides, Canucks played better against tougher teams anyways. The argument that we won the P because of a weak division makes no sense.

The Canucks got outplayed by the Flames and Oilers at times during the season, and then on the other hand they would dominate teams like Detroit, Chicago and other good teams....So enough of this dumb argument.

Edited by DirtyHarry, 03 May 2012 - 10:48 AM.

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#30 BenDrinkin

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 10:53 AM

This is pretty much a matter of fact. There's a simple formula for the Presidents trophy winner;

Top team + weakest division = Presidents trophy winner.




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