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In The Case Where Luongo Stays


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#1 Ugli Fruit

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 07:54 PM

What happens then? It's unlikely that we pick up Suter or Weber, and it would mean that Schneider is dealt.

I see one or more of the following happening:

- Media scrutiny is at an all-time high (if even possible), which probably will set off an even more bipolar love-hate relationship between fans and Luongo

- Schneider dealt for Bottom - 6 forward and bottom pairing D or a Top-4 D

- Luongo leads team to Cup (No reason he can't, he took us to the Semis in 06-07 with half the team we have now)

It kinda seems a pointless thread... Maybe it is. But I'm wondering what would happen, since everyone seems to think now that Luongo is on his way out. What if he stays and the management decides to actually pick the goalie that's proven, seems to have improved his attitude and has better playoff stats than CS over more games? Does this team win with the current core? Does it even matter who's in net?

I don't think we've discussed it much (I haven't been on CDC much lately so maybe I'm badly wrong), but I think this is worth a talk. Imagine the controversy. The guy who offers to waive the NTC if asked for a younger goalie virtually demanding a starter job stays in favor of the latter. I for one think that would be a better situation.

Thoughts?

Formerly known as LordofBrussels

There we have it folks, we have literally blamed everyone for everything at this point


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#2 Get real canuck fans

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 08:00 PM

What happens then? It's unlikely that we pick up Suter or Weber, and it would mean that Schneider is dealt.

I see one or more of the following happening:

- Media scrutiny is at an all-time high (if even possible), which probably will set off an even more bipolar love-hate relationship between fans and Luongo

- Schneider dealt for Bottom - 6 forward and bottom pairing D or a Top-4 D

- Luongo leads team to Cup (No reason he can't, he took us to the Semis in 06-07 with half the team we have now)

It kinda seems a pointless thread... Maybe it is. But I'm wondering what would happen, since everyone seems to think now that Luongo is on his way out. What if he stays and the management decides to actually pick the goalie that's proven, seems to have improved his attitude and has better playoff stats than CS over more games? Does this team win with the current core? Does it even matter who's in net?

I don't think we've discussed it much (I haven't been on CDC much lately so maybe I'm badly wrong), but I think this is worth a talk. Imagine the controversy. The guy who offers to waive the NTC if asked for a younger goalie virtually demanding a starter job stays in favor of the latter. I for one think that would be a better situation.

Thoughts?


What better stats does Lu have over Cory?
Canucks only went to 2nd round in 06-07.

#3 Ugli Fruit

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 08:02 PM

What better stats does Lu have over Cory?
Canucks only went to 2nd round in 06-07.


1. I wrote Semis

2. Look at my sig

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#4 VANFAN101

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 08:04 PM

What better stats does Lu have over Cory?
Canucks only went to 2nd round in 06-07.


2nd round is the same as the (western confernece) semis'.....

#5 Underachieving Hero of CDC

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 08:04 PM

I'm wondering what those playoff stats are based on. nhl.com says Schneider has a career playoff sv% of .940 and a GAA of 1.91. Luongo's for comparison, are .916 sv% and 2.53 GAA.

#6 Get real canuck fans

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 08:10 PM

1. I wrote Semis

2. Look at my sig

\

then why did you just pick 06-07,,,did the same in 08-09 and 09-10,,love Lu lovers who cant admit to the truth or their mistakes.

#7 Ugli Fruit

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 08:10 PM

I'm wondering what those playoff stats are based on. nhl.com says Schneider has a career playoff sv% of .940 and a GAA of 1.91. Luongo's for comparison, are .916 sv% and 2.53 GAA.


Oop, looks like I was badly wrong on Schneider's stats, :lol: I apologize, my mistake.

For Luongo's stats, Wikipedia says otherwise. It seems 2.50 and .917 sv% is accurate.

And yes, Wikipedia is trustworthy, I pity the fool who claims it can be edited by anybody anywhere without so much as a pointed finger and a stern expression.

\

then why did you just pick 06-07,,,did the same in 08-09 and 09-10,,love Lu lovers who cant admit to the truth or their mistakes.


Ok, sure... He took the team to 3 Semis with a half-ass team and then 2 others not much better that were partly injured and couldn't defend for their lives. Sure Luongo didn't exactly shut the door night in and night out against the Hawks, but the guy couldn't even see past the crease with Byfugly in front of him.

Edited by LordofBrussels, 08 May 2012 - 08:12 PM.

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#8 Gino Odjick

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 08:13 PM

It kinda seems a pointless thread... Maybe it is.



#9 Lockhart

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 08:13 PM

Regardless of who is a better goalie, Schneiders trade value is higher. I would love to get something sweet in return for Schneider and keep Lu.

#10 Underachieving Hero of CDC

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 08:17 PM

Oop, looks like I was badly wrong on Schneider's stats, :lol: I apologize, my mistake.

For Luongo's stats, Wikipedia says otherwise. It seems 2.50 and .917 sv% is accurate.

And yes, Wikipedia is trustworthy, I pity the fool who claims it can be edited by anybody anywhere without so much as a pointed finger and a stern expression.



Ok, sure... He took the team to 3 Semis with a half-ass team and then 2 others not much better that were partly injured and couldn't defend for their lives. Sure Luongo didn't exactly shut the door night in and night out against the Hawks, but the guy couldn't even see past the crease with Byfugly in front of him.

I'm going to try to ask this in the most non A-hole way possible. When you come up with one shining example of stats that FINALLY show that Luongo has some type of edge (any statistical edge at all) over Schneider...and then the stats prove to be completely wrong...doesn't that say something?

#11 Pineapples

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 08:21 PM

I would love to keep Lu. I hope your scenario does happen!

\

then why did you just pick 06-07,,,did the same in 08-09 and 09-10,,love Lu lovers who cant admit to the truth or their mistakes.


What's the difference if he only wrote about 07? Since Lu went to the semis in 09 and 10 that just proves his point even more. And besides, you were the one who said that they only went to the semis in 07. (In your first post anyway)

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#12 komodo1970

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 08:33 PM

Even though it's all moot at this point as Lou has pretty much expressed his desire to leave, I think Lou would have to win the cup next year to save any kind of face with Canuck fans. MG would definately be sticking his own neck out as well. It's just an all round messy situation.

#13 Nino

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 08:33 PM

Regardless of who is a better goalie, Schneiders trade value is higher. I would love to get something sweet in return for Schneider and keep Lu.


If Cory's trade value is higher is he not the better goalie? Is he not the goalie with more potential? Is he not the goalie that has more years of top level play left in him? I find it crazy when Lou fans say we should trade the goalie that will get us more in a trade "Cory". If other teams want him more should we not want him more?

#14 Watermelons

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 09:13 PM

If Cory's trade value is higher is he not the better goalie? Is he not the goalie with more potential? Is he not the goalie that has more years of top level play left in him? I find it crazy when Lou fans say we should trade the goalie that will get us more in a trade "Cory". If other teams want him more should we not want him more?


According to most members on CDC, the length of the contract and the age of the player are worth A LOT more than the skill set of the player.

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#15 Brick Tamland

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 09:14 PM

There is no scenario where Lui stays with the Canucks. He gets dealt this off season to either Tampa, Chicago, Detroit, Toronto or Florida.
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#16 The Sedin's 6th Sense

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 09:19 PM

Awesome thread - a true 'discussion' thread.

And to answer the Q, Idk tbh - time will tell I guess :P

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#17 ButterBean

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 09:19 PM

He'll get dealt. The damage has been done. We chose to go with Schneider in the most important games facing elimination and Luongo will not be able to live with that. It's probably why he said he'd wave his NTC if asked to.

#18 Bob Singh

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 09:23 PM

Luongo>Schneider
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#19 Gollumpus

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 09:24 PM

If Cory's trade value is higher is he not the better goalie? Is he not the goalie with more potential? Is he not the goalie that has more years of top level play left in him? I find it crazy when Lou fans say we should trade the goalie that will get us more in a trade "Cory". If other teams want him more should we not want him more?



Preface: I believe Luongo will be traded. I see him playing with even less heart than his detractors feel he has already been showing if he were to be kept.

I find it sad how things have worked out these last couple of seasons and I wish him well with his new team. This being said: Luongo > Schneider. The points you list are the reasons Schneider is the more sought after asset. They do not make Schneider "better" than Luongo. :)


If I were the GM of another team, I would prefer to acquire Schneider more than I would like to acquire Luongo, and for the very reasons you have given. And I would pay more to get him if I had a choice of which guy for which I could trade. For this reason, trading Schneider makes more sense than trading Luongo.

Going back to the OP, he suggests that Schneider could get a top 4 d-man ( I suggest a top pairing d-man), and I agree with that position. Luongo is very unlikely going to bring back the Hedmans or Larssons of the world. Schneider might not bring back one of those guys either, but the Canucks are a lot closer to that kind of a deal trading him than they are trying to move Luongo. In a deal with TB, where they have two first round picks, trading Luongo might return a package with the Detroit pick (22nd). Trading Schneider might return a package with the 10th overall pick.

The other thing to take into consideration should Schneider be moved, is that the Canucks do have Lack coming up through the system. In this scenario the Canucks could trade Schneider now, restock the cupboards *and* get something for now, move Luongo in another couple of years for additional assets, and then ride Lack (assuming he continues to develop).

regards,
G.

Edited by Gollumpus, 08 May 2012 - 09:26 PM.

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#20 RBCanucks

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 09:35 PM

Let's be clear. Shea Weber is making $7-million this year. He is not worth that much money to the Canucks organization and I highly doubt either he or Suter would be willing to take a discount to play in Vancouver.

Keep dreaming though.

#21 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 09:41 PM

It does seem a pointless thread. If we take on Suter, it becomes even more likely we have to shed the salary cap attributed to Luongo.

And acquiring Weber, probably requires a 3 way trade giving up our best asset, presumeably Scheider + a serviceable defender (Edler?) and a pic. And then dumping salary next year to retain Weber.

So neither creates a foregone conclusion because of how the realities of acquiring each.

As for keeping Lou? He's second on my list behind Schneider but ahead of virtually any other alternative. I don't see a problem keeping Lou. My observation is his bouts of pouting, which contributed to play off meltdowns, seem finally to have dissapeared. No more refusing to stay on the bench when Corey starts (Chicago game 6 13 months ago), worrying over who's tire's are being pumped... I think Lou matured substantially after dealing with the scrutiny of the SCF loss. He's fine!

As to the core? Well, I believe kesler / twins deserves at least one more crack! I do believe at least one surprising trade will occur involving someone like Burrows or Edler in addition to a goalie being sacrificed. We have at least two major issues outstanding recquiring probably 3 key players. A big D, a puck moving D to upgrade our D & a winger for the Twins. I am one who believes the Twins need a RW who does what Burrows does + adds size to equalize match ups issues. One of these items could come from prospects, one from a goalie trade, but if we're at the cap the last has to come by trade. Something will give...

What happens then? It's unlikely that we pick up Suter or Weber, and it would mean that Schneider is dealt.

I see one or more of the following happening:

- Media scrutiny is at an all-time high (if even possible), which probably will set off an even more bipolar love-hate relationship between fans and Luongo

- Schneider dealt for Bottom - 6 forward and bottom pairing D or a Top-4 D

- Luongo leads team to Cup (No reason he can't, he took us to the Semis in 06-07 with half the team we have now)

It kinda seems a pointless thread... Maybe it is. But I'm wondering what would happen, since everyone seems to think now that Luongo is on his way out. What if he stays and the management decides to actually pick the goalie that's proven, seems to have improved his attitude and has better playoff stats than CS over more games? Does this team win with the current core? Does it even matter who's in net?

I don't think we've discussed it much (I haven't been on CDC much lately so maybe I'm badly wrong), but I think this is worth a talk. Imagine the controversy. The guy who offers to waive the NTC if asked for a younger goalie virtually demanding a starter job stays in favor of the latter. I for one think that would be a better situation.

Thoughts?


Edited by Canuck Surfer, 08 May 2012 - 09:44 PM.


#22 kj29

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 09:59 PM

schneider up for suter pleeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaasseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee :bigblush:

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#23 Canucks_fo_life

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 10:24 PM

If Luongo stays, we have a much better chance at a cup, cause Schneider will bring us back a better return. We dont even know if Schneider can handle 60+ games, and we're screwed if he falls flat on his face, bigtime.
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#24 Special Ed

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 10:28 PM

Makes more sense to me that schneider gets dealt. I would like to get the biggest return for either goalie and also happy keeping eithe. Win-win situation. MG cant screw it up, just sell to the highest bidder.

If you like looking at statistics to determine who's better, you're just a casual fan.

2.41 season GAA isn't very impressive. Let's not get into playoffs and his SV%.

Cory Schneider is the next Patrick Roy.


#25 mj vic

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 10:29 PM

If Cory's trade value is higher is he not the better goalie? Is he not the goalie with more potential? Is he not the goalie that has more years of top level play left in him? I find it crazy when Lou fans say we should trade the goalie that will get us more in a trade "Cory". If other teams want him more should we not want him more?

Not so much that Cory is the better goalie than that Lou's contract makes Cory's trade value higher.

#26 uber_pwnzor

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 10:59 PM


Schneider will not be traded for Weber or Suter. Nashville do not need a goalie. They've got Rinne and Lindmark...

#27 cmpunk

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 01:41 AM

Regardless of who is a better goalie, Schneiders trade value is higher. I would love to get something sweet in return for Schneider and keep Lu.


Thats what many fans don't realize, that we clearly proved this year we need help in other areas, we still lost with Schnieds in net.

Having either Lu or Schnieds in net next year does not really diminish or improve our chances at the cup with one or the other. Meaning they are pretty even.
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#28 n00bxQb

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 02:25 AM

In The Case Where Luongo Stays

I'm sure some fans would have him working the hot dog stand outside the arena ... Maybe at Costco across the street ...

#29 Sugar baby watermelon

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 02:45 AM

I am a huge Luongo fan, and if he stays or goes, I still support him. It seems the fandom/media here is just too much for any person to handle, even Schneids admitted to this. Luongo has been pretty class and not blown up a la Jeff Carter or Mike Richards sans Philly, and has pretty much said the right things going forward. If we go with Schneids I would be just as happy, but if Lou leaves, one chapter ends and another begins, and then we will have the Schneiderman media circus come to town.

#30 DownUndaCanuck

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 03:56 AM

Luongo > Schneider overall.

Schneider will be lucky if he's anywhere near the goalie Luongo is right now, and I don't want to take that risk. 50 regular season games is still unproven to me - he's a kid. Luongo is a professional.
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