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The Maple Leafs might not be so desperate for Luongo after all

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#121 MJDDawg

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 09:13 PM

How are your proposals more credible than his? It's a consensus or an educated guess more than anything.

I hate the leafs, but for Burke to give anything significant to Van for a contract like that would be brain dead! Losing that contract would be a huge win for Vancouver, but it ain't happening.

Luongo will not be traded for this reason.

This saga will not end this summer.


Refer to my post on page 2 of this thread. Richards and Carter's contract are worse than Lui's, and they both got moved (Carter twice in the same year) for what I would say were significant assets & picks.

And if you did actually look at Lui's contract, you'd know that his cap hit is very reasonable, there are two trade windows (one at Lui's option and one at the teams option), and that the bulk of the money will be paid by about year 8...just about 5 years from now. Lui would likely call it a day and retire by this point, meaning the rest of the contract come off the teams cap.

So when one of the top goalies in the league, who carries a very manageable cap hit of $5.3 Million and who will likely only play for another 5 years or so anyways is available, I have a hard time believing that Burke, or any other GM (hi Stevie and Dale) that can solve their goaltending concerns in one fell swoop with this deal, wouldn't roll the dice and sweeten the pot a little.

Edited by MJDDawg, 20 June 2012 - 09:15 PM.

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#122 Noheart

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 09:16 PM

In other words you don't really know how the contract is structured, when the salary drops off, what the buyout is, or that it was designed as a cap circumvention... but you have stated an opinion that it is an awful contract - unmovable - makes Luongo worthless and the saga will never end?


You stated a pretty strong criticism and devaluation of Luongo - based on his contract - if you can't look at it there's not much point discussing it, and I can't consider your opinion informed or take it seriously.

If you are a Canucks fan, you should look at it - you won't feel so bad.
.


If it was a good contract there would be more or = intrest in Luongo as there is for Nash.
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#123 Gollumpus

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 09:27 PM

If it was a good contract there would be more or = intrest in Luongo as there is for Nash.


I've read a report (Hockey News? I forget where I saw it.) that Toronto has given up on Nash, because he would cost them too much in assets and in cap hit.

In the same report it is indicated that the Leafs were looking at Luongo because they need a goalie more than they need Nash, and that while Luongo has what appears to be a pretty big cap hit, he is also far more affordable than Nash.

regards,
G.
Following the Canucks since before Don Cherry played here.

#124 oldnews

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 09:28 PM

If it was a good contract there would be more or = intrest in Luongo as there is for Nash.


You don't know how much interest there is in either.

p.s. feel free to look at the contract and think for yourself - otherwise your dismissals of people and devaluation of Luongo are simply uninformed - propping up the name of an 'expert' or media source (in this case ironically homer Leafs sources) isn't a substitute.

Edited by oldnews, 20 June 2012 - 09:31 PM.


#125 Noheart

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 09:33 PM

Refer to my post on page 2 of this thread. Richards and Carter's contract are worse than Lui's, and they both got moved (Carter twice in the same year) for what I would say were significant assets & picks.

And if you did actually look at Lui's contract, you'd know that his cap hit is very reasonable, there are two trade windows (one at Lui's option and one at the teams option), and that the bulk of the money will be paid by about year 8...just about 5 years from now. Lui would likely call it a day and retire by this point, meaning the rest of the contract come off the teams cap.

So when one of the top goalies in the league, who carries a very manageable cap hit of $5.3 Million and who will likely only play for another 5 years or so anyways is available, I have a hard time believing that Burke, or any other GM (hi Stevie and Dale) that can solve their goaltending concerns in one fell swoop with this deal, wouldn't roll the dice and sweeten the pot a little.


I hope you are all right, I just take in and express what I am seeing from various sources.

Luongo is not as valuable as Carter and Richards or Nash

If he had 1/2 the value teams in the league would try to make room for him. not just Toronto and Fla

If he is good enough to fetch 2 young prospects and a roster player like people on here are saying there would be a full out bidding war for him.

Most people on here think he is a top 5 Goalie, that leaves 25 other teams that could upgrade by snapping up Luongo.

2 teams maybe 3 are mildly interested.

I just wish people would stop setting them selves up for dissapointment.

Its really annoying.
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#126 oldnews

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 09:47 PM

I hope you are all right, I just take in and express what I am seeing from various sources.

Luongo is not as valuable as Carter and Richards or Nash

If he had 1/2 the value teams in the league would try to make room for him. not just Toronto and Fla

If he is good enough to fetch 2 young prospects and a roster player like people on here are saying there would be a full out bidding war for him.

Most people on here think he is a top 5 Goalie, that leaves 25 other teams that could upgrade by snapping up Luongo.

2 teams maybe 3 are mildly interested.

I just wish people would stop setting them selves up for dissapointment.

Its really annoying.


Again - bold know-it-all statements, but are you informed or talking through your hat/sources?
What are your sources on the highlighted stuff?

#127 uber_pwnzor

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 09:56 PM

What do you expect him to say? "We desperately need Luongo. If I don't get a good goalie I'm fired."


You beat me to it.

#128 Noheart

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 10:01 PM

Again - bold know-it-all statements, but are you informed or talking through your hat/sources?
What are your sources on the highlighted stuff?


Do you beleve in god?

I want quotes from the bible that made you believe!!

Come on man. Im not going to google around the internet to find quotes from everyone that says Luongo will only fetch capspace.

Think what you want

I hope you are correct.
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#129 oldnews

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 10:12 PM

Do you beleve in god?

I want quotes from the bible that made you believe!!

Come on man. Im not going to google around the internet to find quotes from everyone that says Luongo will only fetch capspace.

Think what you want

I hope you are correct.


It was a rhetorical point.

"I just take in and express what I am seeing from various sources."

What you seem to have missed is the fact that virtually the entire hockey world is saying that the Leafs are desperate for a veteran goaltender, actually more specifically Luongo - and yet you have hung up on the Luongo is unmovable thing, which is completely uninformed. Even Leafs homers are stating that Luongo to Toronto is inevitable. Read the post above yours. Burke is the only person in the hockey world denying it (and no one buys that posturing/bargaining pitch) - even his assistant has publicly stated that they need a veteran. I hope they are wrong - I don't want to see Luongo in Toronto - but regardless, his value is far from a salary dump, considering his salary is a relative bargain by any comparable terms - your claim that no one will take him, that the saga will never end, is dramatic but....ironic, considering you are annoyed by other people's expectations, but your own are so negative, and off the mark.

Edited by oldnews, 20 June 2012 - 10:16 PM.


#130 Noheart

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 10:29 PM

It was a rhetorical point.

"I just take in and express what I am seeing from various sources."

What you seem to have missed is the fact that virtually the entire hockey world is saying that the Leafs are desperate for a veteran goaltender, actually more specifically Luongo - and yet you have hung up on the Luongo is unmovable thing, which is completely uninformed. Even Leafs homers are stating that Luongo to Toronto is inevitable. Read the post above yours. Burke is the only person in the hockey world denying it (and no one buys that posturing/bargaining pitch) - even his assistant has publicly stated that they need a veteran. I hope they are wrong - I don't want to see Luongo in Toronto - but regardless, his value is far from a salary dump, considering his salary is a relative bargain by any comparable terms - your claim that no one will take him, that the saga will never end, is dramatic but....ironic, considering you are annoyed by other people's expectations, but your own are so negative, and off the mark.


Edited by Noheart, 20 June 2012 - 10:31 PM.

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#131 Noheart

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 10:31 PM


http://www.sportsnet...hl_draft_notes/

mark spector
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#132 Gollumpus

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 10:32 PM

I hope you are all right, I just take in and express what I am seeing from various sources.

Luongo is not as valuable as Carter and Richards or Nash

If he had 1/2 the value teams in the league would try to make room for him. not just Toronto and Fla

If he is good enough to fetch 2 young prospects and a roster player like people on here are saying there would be a full out bidding war for him.

Most people on here think he is a top 5 Goalie, that leaves 25 other teams that could upgrade by snapping up Luongo.


Just curious: are Carter and Richards more valuable than Quick? If not, is it just because the Kings won the Cup this season? And in the same vein, is Rinne as valuable an asset as Weber? They make the same amount of money.

The suggestion that more teams would want to make room for Luongo, and aren't, is a bit misleading.

1.) Luongo is only required to provide a list of five teams, so any comment complaining that more teams haven't stepped up is kind of self-serving.

2.) We don't know how many teams beyond those on Luongo's list have actually expressed an interest in Luongo (if any). Frankly, all that is needed for a bidding war is two other teams, and this doesn't mean that either are willing to openly say what they are willing to pay.

3.) Even if we accept your point that 25 other teams should want to snap up Luongo, it doesn't follow that they are in a position to go after Luongo. Maybe they already have a goalie with whom they are quite happy, even if he isn't as good as Luongo. Perhaps they can't afford Luongo's cap hit, not because it is too high, but rather because they have already spent up to their cap ceiling on other players, or that they have a self-imposed cap ceiling.

Of the teams who do know they have a shot at Luongo, why would they advertize what they want to give up to their competitors? Sadly they are not all gathered in one public space and an auctioneer where we can evaluate the trade offers as they come in.

regards,
G.
Following the Canucks since before Don Cherry played here.

#133 oldnews

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 10:45 PM

http://www.sportsnet...hl_draft_notes/

mark spector


That is hilarious. Mark Spector is your source. Spector is pretty much known as the biggest Canucks troll in the country. I like some of his articles, they have entertainment value, but he's a columnist/opinion writer - not a source. He is an Oilers fan / rival.

Sources outside Vancouver have listed Toronto, Columbus, Chicago, and Florida as interested - what Spector has wrong is the idea that the market has shrunk for the Canucks - the only team off the market is Tampa, who stated all along they wanted a young goaltender (Schneider). On the other hand, the available veteran goaltenders market that has shrunk away entirely - to Luongo only. Anyone who thinks that strengthens Toronto's bargaining position is deluded.

#134 AnInconvenienceBrah

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 10:47 PM

if Burke is seriously ok with Reimer and Scrivens as his goalies for next season then he's one dumb frack cause that's a downgrade on his last year goaltending duo and it was one of the leagues worst. I call BS on this and it's Burke just trying to not look desperate as there's no way a NHL GM could feel ok with that goaltending duo and have a job. Luongo is now the only option for Toronto and if need be Canucks look at moving Schneider to anyone but Toronto and give a nice jab.

#135 Canucks_fo_life

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 10:53 PM

*BREAKING NHL NEWS**Source: Leafs & Canucks are this close 2 completing deal (Med Reports Left) that would send Luongo to Leafs 98% Done WOW!

http://twitter.com/#!/incarceratedbob
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This is OUR year

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#136 Noheart

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 10:54 PM

That is hilarious. Mark Spector is your source. Spector is pretty much known as the biggest Canucks troll in the country. I like some of his articles, they have entertainment value, but he's a columnist/opinion writer - not a source. He is an Oilers fan / rival.

Sources outside Vancouver have listed Toronto, Columbus, Chicago, and Florida as interested - what Spector has wrong is the idea that the market has shrunk for the Canucks - the only team off the market is Tampa, who stated all along they wanted a young goaltender (Schneider). On the other hand, the available veteran goaltenders market that has shrunk away entirely - to Luongo only. Anyone who thinks that strengthens Toronto's bargaining position is deluded.


old news > spector and dreger

Im convinced, I cant wait for toronto's or florida's entire farm.
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#137 Gollumpus

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 12:33 AM

General FYI:

Just had a look at a thread on the Leafs forum regarding Burke's comments of sticking with his current goalies.

http://fans.maplelea...s-if-the-price/

Pretty much all of the posters there are suggesting that the Leafs will finish out of the playoffs (again), and that Burke will be fired if he doesn't acquire a better goalie. This doesn't necessarily mean that they want Luongo, but I didn't see anything which suggests that they want anyone other than Luongo.

In this one there also appears to be a lot of positive thought about acquiring luongo:

http://fans.maplelea...04-goaltending/

Additional thoughts in this thread:

http://fans.maplelea...o/page__st__340

regards,
G.

Edited by Gollumpus, 21 June 2012 - 12:39 AM.

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#138 oldnews

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 12:51 AM

old news > spector and dreger

Im convinced, I cant wait for toronto's or florida's entire farm.

ok noheart, moving on...
"Luongo will not be traded"... because of his, er, contract.
Like you said, you said it over and over again, (even if none of your 'sources' confirm it.)
I'm convinced.

Edited by oldnews, 21 June 2012 - 01:08 AM.


#139 samurai

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 01:51 AM

For the OP

As most posters have picked up on, this is a poker game in play at the moment and guys like LeBrun get played. LeBrun obviously knows he is getting used but its part of him keeping his access to GMs - use and be used.

Burke's bluff can be called because he has huge pressure to get this team into the show this year. Worst case scenario for Van we got one of the best tandems in the league.

#140 oldnews

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 02:12 AM

The Leafs forums are interesting Gollumpus.
They are generally pissed that Burke has backtracked and completely unimpressed by the prospect of Reimer and Scrivens - convinced that failing to acquire Luongo = failure.
The proposals there are generally for three pieces - along the lines of Bozak, Franson, pick / Colborne, Franson, 2013 1st / Connolly, Liles, prospect / or parroting Dreger, the salary dump Komisarek and a bag of pucks variety.
Interesting to track the changes in tone...

#141 oldnews

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 02:14 AM

For the OP

As most posters have picked up on, this is a poker game in play at the moment and guys like LeBrun get played. LeBrun obviously knows he is getting used but its part of him keeping his access to GMs - use and be used.

Burke's bluff can be called because he has huge pressure to get this team into the show this year. Worst case scenario for Van we got one of the best tandems in the league.


Exactly - and I think people tend to underestimate both Schneider and Luongo's willingness to coexist, particularly in the short term.

#142 darkpoet

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 02:19 AM

bahaha yeah right. Burke is foaming at the mouth for Luongo. He's just trying not to come off as desperate. He knows Reimer and Scrivens can't cut it in a hockey mad place like Toronto. Luongo is their saviour.


Right, but Burke is a self-righteous asshat and his ego will destroy any deal involving Luongo before it gets wheels.

He'll try every trick he can to burn Gillis because he's still choked Gillis got wise to his sneaky bullshat involving the Sedins before they were re-signed.

If Luongo ends up in Toronto it will be an act of God.

#143 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 07:54 AM

Exactly - and I think people tend to underestimate both Schneider and Luongo's  willingness to coexist, particularly in the short term.



I think this is the thing that guys like Spector, Cox and Dreger are missing. Every time I hear them talk about this issue, they always say that Gillis "has" to move a goaltender. I don't believe this to be the case.

It begs the question: What would be more attractive to the Canucks? Another year with the best goaltending tandem in the league, or another defenseman (Komisarek) who makes too much money and will also not be able to crack the top four in Vancouver.

Now if we're talking about a decent prospect, (Schenn, Gardiner, Colborne,etc.) or a first round pick, then we have a starting point. This at least gives Gillis some value in return, plus it frees up some Cap space that he can use to address team needs in other areas.
Orland Kurtenbach and Dennis Kearns had just been torched 8-1 by the Habs, but they still took time to come out to meet us, some fellow BC boys who were playing hockey in Montreal. THAT"S what being a Canuck is!

#144 oldnews

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 09:53 AM

I think this is the thing that guys like Spector, Cox and Dreger are missing. Every time I hear them talk about this issue, they always say that Gillis "has" to move a goaltender. I don't believe this to be the case.

It begs the question: What would be more attractive to the Canucks? Another year with the best goaltending tandem in the league, or another defenseman (Komisarek) who makes too much money and will also not be able to crack the top four in Vancouver.

Now if we're talking about a decent prospect, (Schenn, Gardiner, Colborne,etc.) or a first round pick, then we have a starting point. This at least gives Gillis some value in return, plus it frees up some Cap space that he can use to address team needs in other areas.


I think the common thing among Spector, Cox, Dreger is that they'd all like to see the Leafs fleece the Canucks (for different reasons) - which makes their opinions, which is what we are talking about, lack the credibility of neutral sources.
I agree entirely with your point - why would the Canucks take dead weight in return? If teams want to low ball - the Canucks are entirely able to wait it out - that is not a bluff on the part of Gillis - the Canucks are not losing anytime soon with the roster they have, particularly with that tandem - they are not desperate for an extra roster player - the potential picks and prospects they can wait for - they have enough cap space to work with... and the fanbase for the most part understands one way or the other - opinion is mixed and balanced. On the other hand, Toronto can't afford to sit on their hands. If the season started and they have Reimer and Scrivener between the pipes, their fans are going to be calling for heads - and regardless, teams like Florida are not stupid - they know the value of a guy like Luongo.

Edited by oldnews, 21 June 2012 - 09:54 AM.


#145 oldnews

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 11:12 AM

http://sports.nation...ngo-could-land/

National Post
Five places Luongo could land.

Edited by oldnews, 21 June 2012 - 11:12 AM.


#146 tiredatwork

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 06:56 PM

If Luongo's value is so low, and his ability is so diminished, and his contract is so over-priced, why then would Toronto (or any other team) even consider trying to trade for him? With all of these negatives you and others have suggested, there still seems to be interest in this guy.

So, what can we assume from these various negative comments regarding Luongo? (pick one, or two if you think they both apply):

1.) Burke is a brain dead, mouth breather who doesn't know squat about hockey, in which case you should be mocking Burke for being such a fool.

2.) Burke is trying to make a shrewd move to acquire a guy who could save his team, and to do it for the lowest possible price, and he is getting help from various pundits in the local Toronto media.

regards,
G.


Man, Burke is really running this bluff well. By trading Schenn and keeping his first round pick he's really making it look like he isn't that interested in Lou. Glad we have you here to correct us. You are spot on again. Just like you said about TB, every post you make is more and more accurate.

#147 ripsh0w

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 07:10 PM

Burke stated that he thinks his team is good enough to make the playoffs every year.

How can he seriously tell the Maple Leafs fans that they are good enough with Reimer and whoever the backup is.


Biggest BS'er of a GM, even more than most.

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#148 canucktican

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 11:16 PM

Lol if Toronto starts with Reimer on net they definitely miss the playoffs again

Edited by canucktican, 23 June 2012 - 11:17 PM.


#149 bobopan

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 11:37 PM

I can't help but start to feel a little worried about this whole Luongo saga... Look if you asked me 3 months ago what i would take for Luongo i would of said a team just taking that contract for free would be enough..now i think most fans and myself included are feeling a little greedy hoping we can get someone decent for him. There isn't exactly much of a market for Luongo, its basically Toronto and only toronto..i know Florida is out there in the rumors but it just doesn't make any sense IMO with Markstrom there.

I look at Burke as being very stubborn if he can't get it to go his way and feel the same about MG... This could drag out for a very long time.

#150 Slegr

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 11:43 PM

Personally, I wouldn't like to see Lu go to Toronto. I'd prefer any of the other 28 teams.
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