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#31 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 03:20 PM

Our top-4 defence is great right now but Ballard-Tanev are not built for the playoffs as we have seen the last 2 seasons.


With all due respect.. this makes absolutley no sense to me.

Ballard and Tanev were our best pair in the playoffs and were miles better than Bieksa and Edler, our most physical defensemen.

Ballard and Tanev, were calm, cool, and reliable and they would just handle one on one situations effectively, I think they are fine.

As for centers, we have 2 centers in the organization who I would call "offensively skilled". Schroeder and Gaunce are way off, Malhotra didn't even score 10 goals last season and Lapierre is not a scorer by any means because his game is too distracting. We have to replace Hodgson's loss because it was a big one, and there are options like Morrison, Wellwood, Arnott and Hecht (my personal favourite, extremely underated) who are much more offensively talented.


I disagree, I don't think Schroeder is far off, he's really skilled, a very dynamic offensive player and he was better by leaps and bounds then he was last year, and not just offensively.

Imo he is more offensively skilled then most of the players you mentioned. We should give him a shot.

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 09 July 2012 - 03:20 PM.

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#32 Bang Bang Boogie

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 03:35 PM

Makes a lot of sense and much though I like Edler I feel he is fairly "soft" on the team, in a push back sense.


I agree. Yeah I know its not his game but you hardly see him sticking up for his teammates. I like to think of Edler as one of the softest "big" players in the league. You see smaller guys knocking him down sometimes. I know he can be physically dominant when he wants to be but he doesn't bring it every night.
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#33 SevenDays

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 03:41 PM

I remember Edler came out throwing big hits one after another back then on the first round against the Blackhawks two years ago. It was after coming off a back surgery too... What happened to that side of his game :sadno:

#34 Red Light Racicot

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 04:12 PM

I think we really need a new coach personally.

#35 Datsyukian

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 05:11 PM

What have you been smoking. Alberts isnt physical? He is easily the most physically punishing defenceman we have, and when he hits people they feel it. You want to talk about playoffs from 2011? He played all of 3 games in the playoffs before inserted into the lineup in the finals, what kind of performance were you expecting.

Tanev will be a pretty good defencemen, but you are comparing apples to oranges. You need depth on the blue line. And Alberts is just that, depth.

Alberts is a very good 7-8 dman, and easily the most physical of any defencemen we have. Alberts takes a beating on these boards, when in fact he is no where near as bad as people make him out to be.

Look at the stats on Alberts..his stats are better than that of Ballard.


Alberts is not better then Tanev. He puts up about 2 hits a game but they aren't anything special. He gets walked around by skilled players. He is just too slow and he lacks a mean streak. Not worth the money!

#36 Canucklehead73

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 06:57 PM

What have you been smoking. Alberts isnt physical? He is easily the most physically punishing defenceman we have, and when he hits people they feel it. You want to talk about playoffs from 2011? He played all of 3 games in the playoffs before inserted into the lineup in the finals, what kind of performance were you expecting.

Tanev will be a pretty good defencemen, but you are comparing apples to oranges. You need depth on the blue line. And Alberts is just that, depth.

Alberts is a very good 7-8 dman, and easily the most physical of any defencemen we have. Alberts takes a beating on these boards, when in fact he is no where near as bad as people make him out to be.

Look at the stats on Alberts..his stats are better than that of Ballard.


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#37 kylecanuck

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 07:00 PM

It's Weber and there is no way he signs for 5.5

I would like to think if Webber was already playing for his home town team when it came to contract negotiations, he would consider signing for a bit less then what he could get playing for another team. Take less to build a better team? 5.5 over the next ten years is going to make him a very rich man regardless.

That is precisely a problem with the Canucks past, present and probably future. The fourth line. You put one guy there that is NHL regular material and never will be and label the other winger as 'plug'. The Canucks staff takes this to heart every year. They don't seem to actually care about the fourth line; they're just benchwarmers. They take up 6 minutes a game to rest better players. Every year instead of actually acquiring quality guys that have had success in that role to play on that line, they promote someone undeserving from the farm or sign some scrub through FA, assemble a line and roll with that all season long. They basically did this during our Cup run, and aside from Lapierre, who played there at times, not one of them managed a single point in 24 games or less.

Tanev/Connaughton doesn't look promising either.

I agree with you he fourth line needs a majore overhaul with some better talent down there. Maybe Raymond will be playing fourth line minutes? Ten min a game for Raymond - Malhotra - trade/FA


Makes a lot of sense and much though I like Edler I feel he is fairly "soft" on the team, in a push back sense.


I see it to, he's a talented defencmen but not he number one we need to win us a cup...
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#38 kylecanuck

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 07:01 PM

Sorry, quoted those wrong, should of put the replys on top of the quotes instead of under.
The children, wont someone please think of the children!!!

#39 kylecanuck

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 07:08 PM

I think we really need a new coach personally.




I agree, he's just not capable of adapting and changing his game plan. Then panic sets in and he juggles the lines in a desperate attempt to try to look smart. I know he is the winningest coach in Canucks history, was there for the run to game seven and all that but with the talent we had and have any coach in the NHL could of put up the same numbers.. Just saying
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#40 Canuckian93

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 09:03 PM

Let's say we get weber next year in free agency I think the least that he would sign for and that's a long shot is 6.5 but i dont think thats enough if we get him I see us signing him between 7 -7.5 mil range 7 or 8 year deal which I don't see happening cause gillis said that no one gets paid more than the sedins he could sign for 7mil cause of the hometown factor cause lets face it he could easily make 7.5 to 8 mil on the open market the only way I see weber playing here is if he takes a massive discount for like 6 million a year that I would do but the problem is weber wont because he"s worth way more than that and that's why I see him not coming here.
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#41 Neufy161

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 01:26 AM

this would be nice...

Trade: Luongo and Raymond for Weiss and Theodore

(wont ever happen, Weiss is practically untouchable + NMC/NTC on both)(Thomas Kopensky?)
Acquire: Doan (or anyone to play that top 6 role for 3-5 million


Leaves us about 2 mil to play with to grab some defensive depth.

FORWARDS

Daniel Sedin ($6.100m) / Henrik Sedin ($6.100m) / Alexandre Burrows ($2.000m)
David Booth ($4.250m) / Ryan Kesler ($5.000m) / Shane Doan ($4.550m)
Jannik Hansen ($1.350m) / Stephen Weiss ($3.100m) / Chris Higgins ($1.900m)
Maxim Lapierre ($1.000m) / Manny Malhotra ($2.500m) / Zack Kassian ($0.870m)
Aaron Volpatti ($0.600m)


DEFENSEMEN
Alexander Edler ($3.250m) / Jason Garrison ($4.600m)
Dan Hamhuis ($4.500m) / Kevin Bieksa ($4.600m)
Keith Ballard ($4.200m) / Chris Tanev ($0.900m)
Andrew Alberts ($1.225m)


GOALTENDERS
Cory Schneider ($4.000m)
Jose Theodore ($1.500m)

------
SALARY CAP: $70,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $68,095,000; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $2,105,000

Edited by Neufy161, 10 July 2012 - 02:01 AM.

Oh hello Alain Vigneault, I see what you did there... good one.

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#42 Bodee

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 02:14 AM

Let's say we get weber next year in free agency I think the least that he would sign for and that's a long shot is 6.5 but i dont think thats enough if we get him I see us signing him between 7 -7.5 mil range 7 or 8 year deal which I don't see happening cause gillis said that no one gets paid more than the sedins he could sign for 7mil cause of the hometown factor cause lets face it he could easily make 7.5 to 8 mil on the open market the only way I see weber playing here is if he takes a massive discount for like 6 million a year that I would do but the problem is weber wont because he"s worth way more than that and that's why I see him not coming here.


All true.

It seems then that Gillis has two options. One, increase the Sedins salary, I don't know if that can be done but I doubt there would be many arguments. Two and this is a bit harder, find the new Weber and acquire him.

The second option may be cheaper but I am having reservations on our scout's ability to identify our priorities of late. I mean, imo number one on the talents we should look for is obviously ability but number two now is definitely a HARD nasty edge to their game.

Our team is o/a lacking in push back. We are NOT soft in a playing sense, we just don't seem to have the ability to make teams respect us. Oh sure they probably admire the Sedins and our o/a play but in how many dressing rooms do they say "Just bully them, apart from Bieksa, they have no come back"
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#43 Bodee

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 02:32 AM

this would be nice...

Trade: Luongo and Raymond for Weiss and Theodore

(wont ever happen, Weiss is practically untouchable + NMC/NTC on both)(Thomas Kopensky?)
Acquire: Doan (or anyone to play that top 6 role for 3-5 million


Leaves us about 2 mil to play with to grab some defensive depth.

FORWARDS

Daniel Sedin ($6.100m) / Henrik Sedin ($6.100m) / Alexandre Burrows ($2.000m)
David Booth ($4.250m) / Ryan Kesler ($5.000m) / Shane Doan ($4.550m)
Jannik Hansen ($1.350m) / Stephen Weiss ($3.100m) / Chris Higgins ($1.900m)
Maxim Lapierre ($1.000m) / Manny Malhotra ($2.500m) / Zack Kassian ($0.870m)
Aaron Volpatti ($0.600m)


DEFENSEMEN
Alexander Edler ($3.250m) / Jason Garrison ($4.600m)
Dan Hamhuis ($4.500m) / Kevin Bieksa ($4.600m)
Keith Ballard ($4.200m) / Chris Tanev ($0.900m)
Andrew Alberts ($1.225m)


GOALTENDERS
Cory Schneider ($4.000m)
Jose Theodore ($1.500m)

------
SALARY CAP: $70,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $68,095,000; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $2,105,000


I like that line up but would offer the following wrinkles.

Booth for Clowe
Edler for Sbisa to give this.

FORWARDS
Daniel Sedin ($6.100m) / Henrik Sedin ($6.100m) / Alexandre Burrows ($2.000m)
Ryane Clowe ($3.625m) / Ryan Kesler ($5.000m) / Shane Doan ($4.550m)
Jannik Hansen ($1.350m) / Stephen Weiss ($3.100m) / Chris Higgins ($1.900m)
Maxim Lapierre ($1.000m) / Manny Malhotra ($2.500m) / Zack Kassian ($0.870m)
Aaron Volpatti ($0.600m)


DEFENSEMEN
Dan Hamhuis ($4.500m) / Jason Garrison ($4.600m)
Keith Ballard ($4.200m) / Kevin Bieksa ($4.600m)
Luca Sbisa ($2.175m) / Chris Tanev ($0.900m)
Andrew Alberts ($1.225m)


GOALTENDERS
Cory Schneider ($4.000m)
Jose Theodore ($1.500m)


SALARY CAP: $70,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $66,395,000; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $3.805,000

Clowe (6'-2" @ 225 lbs) a points scoring tough guy who is on the ice when it matters. The 2nd line would rumble and leave an option for exchanging Burr and Doan when the Twins needed some protection.

In D I am taking a chance with Ballard/ Bieksa however I am also convinced Ballard could swap with Hamhuis. Sbisa is a two way animal and I think he would work his way up the line with Tanev in time. 22 years old and drafted 19th overall he is a tough customer who puts up points........24 last year with the Ducks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wn-jMqMYVE4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yebJFsa-LDc

Here he is at 20 yrs old sticking up for Parros...........man, I would love to get this guy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLyy6uyyXF0

Edited by Bodee, 10 July 2012 - 02:56 AM.

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#44 Ryan Murray

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 06:32 AM

I predict we miss the playoffs by 2 points. I just am not feeling it this year with our defense, along with our Cinderella captain and poor playoff heart.
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#45 Canucksbiggestfan

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 10:38 AM

To start off with I would pursuing Shane Doan hard, if the Canucks succeed in signing him then they should acquire key pieces in the Luongo trade.

Van: Roberto Luongo

Fla: Marcel Goc, Jose Theodore, Quentin Howden, 2013 1st or 2nd Round Pick

The Doan contract should be for 3 years @ 14 million. With a NTC for the first year.

We could go out and sign Peter Mueller to a 1 year deal at 1 million, he could fill in for Kesler.

Re-sign Weise for 750k.

Sign Kurtis Foster to 1 year deal worth 1.35 million.
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#46 DaMacNamedDre

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 11:03 AM

if we go into this season without toughening up the roster i will find a new team to cheer for.

sick of the kumbaya Canucks that don't fight for each other.
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Posted ImageBodee, on 18 April 2012 - 11:07 AM, said:

I haven't been a supporter of the Canucks for long. Mainly because firstly I know nothing about NHL and secondly ESPN America only started showing NHL 3 years ago.

http://forum.canucks.com/topic/328055-whats-wrong-with-me
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#47 CanuckFan1981

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 01:53 PM

Alberts needs to be moved to a desperate team for a 7th round pick or something, he is a huge pylon. Tanev has proven he can play, take a look at his plus/minus (regular season and playoffs). Then look at Alberts, not as good with the puck, slower, not very physical. Sat out this years playoffs and was a -8 in the run to the finals. The speedy forwards on Chicago and Boston made him look stupid. Don't see how you could sit out Tanev for that guy!

Also, he has a cap hit of 1,225,000

Move Alberts to make cap room!


So we are not tough enough and we also need to get rid of one of the toughest players on our team (Rome, Alberts) because they are not good enough offesively.??? Highly illogical captain...

#48 CanuckFan1981

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 02:04 PM

if we go into this season without toughening up the roster i will find a new team to cheer for.

sick of the kumbaya Canucks that don't fight for each other.


You will not be missed. We have thousands more fans just like you. You can cheer for any old "truculant" team you want, and maybe they will squeek into the playoffs. Best of Luck.

#49 DaMacNamedDre

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 02:54 PM

You will not be missed. We have thousands more fans just like you. You can cheer for any old "truculant" team you want, and maybe they will squeek into the playoffs. Best of Luck.


sounds like you haven't watched the brutality that is the Stanley Cup playoffs.
Boston Bruins/LA Kings won it the last 2 years with rosters full of monsters.
we have none.
Mason Raymond is not the answer.
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Posted ImageBodee, on 18 April 2012 - 11:07 AM, said:

I haven't been a supporter of the Canucks for long. Mainly because firstly I know nothing about NHL and secondly ESPN America only started showing NHL 3 years ago.

http://forum.canucks.com/topic/328055-whats-wrong-with-me
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#50 Bodee

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 02:58 AM

Part of the problem as I see it is we have a top line which despite Burr's best efforts gets bullied in the playoffs. Now Kassin 3 years down the line may be the answer but he is not the answer now. We need to:-

Either bring in a hefty beast, like Clowe (this guy handed Parros his ass in a sling) to replace Daniel (onto 2nd line) or some one like Doan to replace Burr (onto 2nd line) Either of these moves (or similar players) would take the heat off the 1st line..........especially if we could also put someone like Weber on the first line D.



In my view however, that would not be enough. In either one of the above scenarios the other acquisition is still required on the 2nd line for the same reason. So if Daniel is replaced by Clowe then the 2nd line RW has Doan on it. If Burrows is replaced by Doan then the 2nd line LW has Clowe on it.

We need someone on hand on each line........defence and attack who can "push back" so the 3rd would see Higgins and Hansen get Kassian/Bitz/Weise (I'm no fan of Bitz though) and the 4th would see Lapierre and Manny get Volpatti.

Edited by Bodee, 11 July 2012 - 03:21 AM.

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#51 HockeyHobo73

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 04:19 AM

I'm actually fine with our D right now... It would be preferable to acquire another No.5-6 D-man, but that can be addressed later on before the trade deadline... However, if we could add a piece, I'd be all for it... if not, I think our current healthy D are solid...

#52 DollarAndADream

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 04:58 AM

You know, I really hate it when people write half of the title forcing others to look inside.



On a related note, I believe the Canucks needs a veteran defender and 2nd line forward.

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#53 Baggins

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 04:59 AM

Let's say we get weber next year in free agency I think the least that he would sign for and that's a long shot is 6.5 but i dont think thats enough if we get him I see us signing him between 7 -7.5 mil range 7 or 8 year deal which I don't see happening cause gillis said that no one gets paid more than the sedins he could sign for 7mil cause of the hometown factor cause lets face it he could easily make 7.5 to 8 mil on the open market the only way I see weber playing here is if he takes a massive discount for like 6 million a year that I would do but the problem is weber wont because he"s worth way more than that and that's why I see him not coming here.

Try 9 to 10m and possibly more. Last year the analysts were saying he'd get 9m on the open market. The cap has gone up this year and there's no reason to believe it won't again next year. Which means higher salaries. If he signed at $8.5m he'd be giving a pretty good home town discount. He got $7.5m a year ago as an rfa. Anybody expecting $7.5m or less is dreaming.

Edited by Baggins, 11 July 2012 - 05:21 AM.

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#54 nuck nit

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 08:21 AM

Our team is o/a lacking in push back. We are NOT soft in a playing sense, we just don't seem to have the ability to make teams respect us. Oh sure they probably admire the Sedins and our o/a play but in how many dressing rooms do they say "Just bully them, apart from Bieksa, they have no come back"


Don't disagree.Fighting should be reserved for opponents dishing out cheap shots to fellow players and the playoffs when one needs to change momentum or set a tone for the next game.
However,Bxa was like a lost sheep last year down the stretch and Ballard stepped up big time.
Kesler can throw them,Burr will do it,I even remember Hamhuis chucking em.
Big,bad Doan or his equivelant would be a welcome addition,no matter what.
Wife is a Kamloops girl and he is a former Blazer.
Here's hoping.

Edited by nuck nit, 11 July 2012 - 08:22 AM.


#55 Datsyukian

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 01:53 PM

So we are not tough enough and we also need to get rid of one of the toughest players on our team (Rome, Alberts) because they are not good enough offesively.??? Highly illogical captain...


I never mentioned his lack of offence and I liked Rome as a depth guy. Alberts is actually pretty mediocre defensively, IMO and he tends to get "dangled" often because of how slow he is!

He doesn't hit or fight very much so I don't see how you think he is "one of the toughest players on our team".

He also only plays about half the games and carries a cap hit of over a million dollars.

What he is, is an overpaid plug that is slowing down development of our young prospects that play defense by taking up a roster spot.

MOVE HIM MG!!!

Edited by Datsyukian, 15 July 2012 - 01:54 PM.





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