Killings in Burma

[Sharpshooter]

The numbers I have from Wiki are 15.69 births per 1000 people for Qatar (2008), compared to 19.95 per 1000 for the rest of the world (2009). I'm not sure what a sample size of one would prove even if Qatar did have a higher than average number, though. There are a ton of confounding variables besides just GDP (which I assume you were getting at in picking Qatar), and religion.

[VICanucksfan5551]

Islam has a host of rules that make it unpalatable to leave the religion and to ensure its purity. In its strictest interpretations this means the ultimate price for those who disobey.

[VICanucksfan5551]

My point was there were indeed many factors, though the one I was pointing out was religious and you were pointing out impoverished climate zones. There's enough evidence to support both. In fact, i believe it's fair to say that the poorer a region the more religious people seem to be.

[لني]

S19 and I have butted heads on that issue in the past. As a staunch supporter of freedom of religion and freedom from religion, I strongly oppose all of the interpretations of sharia I've ever seen. Of course, with the diversity of ideals in Islam I mentioned earlier, there are also Muslim secularists who don't support sharia law.

[VICanucksfan5551]

Forget sharia. Its also the social stigmas.

Secularist are a minority in islam.

[DarthNinja]

Leave it to the usual Islamophobe suspects to scoff at Muslims being massacred as a 'cheap attempt at victimhood' against a group that has been often declared as the most persecuted people in Asia and perhaps even the world (and try to derail the thread into another self-proclaimed 'Islam beating'). This of course simply reflects the egotistical hatred and closed-mindedness that such individuals are plagued with while comically claiming to be 'humanists' and taking up the fight for 'humanity'.

An extremist atheist 'questions sources and the source's sources' then goes on to use the Christian Science Monitor as his own source to counter? Interesting...especially given his history of 'love' for Christians and their religion.

Such individuals, unfortunately, are blinded by their own over-inflated egos, hatred, ideology and preachers (while ironically making these precise claims against others).

I suppose since their preachers have brainwashed them into believing that Buddhists are 'peaceful and loving' and 'never violent' this would be the natural course of action. Such a shame.

Forget about the persecution and massacres of Muslims because that's not getting any real 'airtime'...let's instead be 'humanists' and talk about 'Sunni VS. Shiite'.

Genocide Emergency: Western Myanmar, Rakhine State: The Rohingya

Genocide Watch is issuing a Genocide Emergency Alert for the Rohingya of Myanmar

http://www.genocidewatch.org/myanmar.html

[DarthNinja]

^ That AJ artice doesn't seem to be making the case that the persecution is a religious one.

It actually seems to be a much more measured one that the initial offering of tripe in the OP.

Why aren't they out protesting the treatment of the muslim women in Pakistan? Or in Saudi Arabia? Or the way the non-religious are treated in Indonesia??

[DarthNinja]

And save maryam is a pro islam campaign in which donations will come piling in if islam is "threatened".

Maybe it just means christianity is a better religion. I mean thats whats thought and said when someone convert to islam no?

Interesting discussion on the topic. I particularly like the "its for economic reasons argument" as if others such as the bosniaks didnt convert to islam for economic reasons.

www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?334219-Save-Maryam-Millions-of-Indonesians-leaving-Islam

[لني]

Yes Lonny, we're also familiar with your unique and 'enlightened' approach. Though we've yet to hear you really complain about how the Muslim world treats Western business men.

I have family in Indonesia and was there just a few months ago. It is true that Muslims are leaving Islam, however; there are several specific reasons for this:

1. Christian missionaries present an 'Islamified' version of Christianity to Muslims there. Like Muslims, they hold their religious congregations on Fridays instead of Sundays, build churches that look like Mosques and heavily incorporate Islamic terms, ideas and concepts into their propagation, prayers at specific times during the day etc. Essentially, they deceive Muslims into believing that Christianity is merely 'another version' of Islam.

2. They focus for the most part on individuals who are either non-religious or uneducated, often in the poorest areas.

3. They dress like Muslims and some missionaries go so far as to purposely behave lewdly and inappropriately while dressed as Muslims in order to show that 'Muslims are bad' (there were cases of religious Muslims confronting such individuals only to find the disguised 'Muslims' wearing necklaces with crosses).

4. I had the opportunity to speak with former Christian missionary who reverted to Islam; Steve Rockwell, and he told me that the most common tactic in Indonesia was 'if you want the bowl of rice, you must take Jesus with it'.

On the other hand, lectures by former Priests like Yusuf Estes leads to 100's and even 1000+ individuals in their audiences to revert to Islam at once after merely propagating the religion in the purest sense.

[DarthNinja]

Not really sure what my enlightened approach has to do with the previous post nor what business men have to do with it either.

Point 4 is a perfect example of what i was referring to.

Convert to islam do so willingly and out of the shear "beauty" of islam.

Yet those leaving islam or converting to other religions are being tricked away from that beauty.

Like i said islam along with othr religions has used economic "incentives" to convert people.

[Special Ed]

That's the one fundamental problem with religion. Even though most movements preach tolerance of others, it seems like being tolerant of other religions is something still unattainable.

In an age where machines are being flown to and landing on other planets. We still have humans killing each other over beliefs. At the end of the day thinking or believing in anything is ultimately meaningless. It's accomplishments based on those thoughts and beliefs that have true meaning.

What has any religion really accomplished? One end of the spectrum has the most generous and kind people. The other, blood thirsty Neanderthals who would brutalize you and your family. Is the one really worth the other? Why can't people just hold those initial qualities regardless. I often imagine the world without religion. Is religion not the root cause of many wars? Take all the worlds resources put towards fighting and apply it to space exploration. How much further ahead would we be. It's extremely disapointing to think about.

And to think that as a species we regard ourselves as intelligent. Not much more than most animals in my opinion. Anyway back to the mars rover thread I go...

[Buggernut]

Pakistan's extremists whip up frenzy over Burma's Muslims

[TOMapleLaughs]

Hey i heard even more were killed in Iraq and Afghanistan recently.

[taxi]

Here's a question for Supra and Darth:

From wikipedia (so correct me if I'm wrong):

The British census of 1891 reported 58,255 Muslims in Arakan. By 1911, the Muslim population had increased to 178,647.^[30] The waves of migration were primarily due to the requirement of cheap labor from British India to work in the paddy fields. Immigrants from Bengal, mainly from the Chittagong region, "moved en masse into western townships of Arakan". To be sure, Indian immigration to Burma was a nationwide phenomenon, not just restricted to Arakan. Historian Thant Myint-U writes: "At the beginning of the 20th century, Indians were arriving in Burma at the rate of no less than a quarter million per year. The numbers rose steadily until the peak year of 1927, immigration reached 480,000 people, with Rangoon exceeding New York City as the greatest immigration port in the world. This was out of a total population of only 13 million; it was equivalent to the United Kingdom today taking 2 million people a year." By then, in most of the largest cities in Burma, Rangoon (Yangon), Akyab (Sittwe), Bassein (Pathein), Moulmein, the Indian immigrants formed a majority of the population. The Burmese under the British rule felt helpless, and reacted with a "racism that combined feelings of superiority and fear.

[Sharpshooter]

Leave it to the usual Islamophobe suspects to scoff at Muslims being massacred as a 'cheap attempt at victimhood' against a group that has been often declared as the most persecuted people in Asia and perhaps even the world (and try to derail the thread into another self-proclaimed 'Islam beating'). This of course simply reflects the egotistical hatred and closed-mindedness that such individuals are plagued with while comically claiming to be 'humanists' and taking up the fight for 'humanity'.

An extremist atheist 'questions sources and the source's sources' then goes on to use the Christian Science Monitor as his own source to counter? Interesting...especially given his history of 'love' for Christians and their religion.

Such individuals, unfortunately, are blinded by their own over-inflated egos, hatred, ideology and preachers (while ironically making these precise claims against others).

I suppose since their preachers have brainwashed them into believing that Buddhists are 'peaceful and loving' and 'never violent' this would be the natural course of action. Such a shame.

Forget about the persecution and massacres of Muslims because that's not getting any real 'airtime'...let's instead be 'humanists' and talk about 'Sunni VS. Shiite'.

Genocide Emergency: Western Myanmar, Rakhine State: The Rohingya

Genocide Watch is issuing a Genocide Emergency Alert for the Rohingya of Myanmar

http://www.genocidew...rg/myanmar.html

[Buggernut]

Leave it to the usual Islamophobe suspects to scoff at Muslims being massacred as a 'cheap attempt at victimhood' against a group that has been often declared as the most persecuted people in Asia and perhaps even the world (and try to derail the thread into another self-proclaimed 'Islam beating'). This of course simply reflects the egotistical hatred and closed-mindedness that such individuals are plagued with while comically claiming to be 'humanists' and taking up the fight for 'humanity'.

An extremist atheist 'questions sources and the source's sources' then goes on to use the Christian Science Monitor as his own source to counter? Interesting...especially given his history of 'love' for Christians and their religion.

Such individuals, unfortunately, are blinded by their own over-inflated egos, hatred, ideology and preachers (while ironically making these precise claims against others).

I suppose since their preachers have brainwashed them into believing that Buddhists are 'peaceful and loving' and 'never violent' this would be the natural course of action. Such a shame.

Forget about the persecution and massacres of Muslims because that's not getting any real 'airtime'...let's instead be 'humanists' and talk about 'Sunni VS. Shiite'.

Genocide Emergency: Western Myanmar, Rakhine State: The Rohingya

Genocide Watch is issuing a Genocide Emergency Alert for the Rohingya of Myanmar

http://www.genocidew...rg/myanmar.html

[Buggernut]

So speaking out against certain things about Islam and Islamists makes me a islamophobe?? How about a hate-monger? Or a zionist? Yeah, i'm probably a Muslim hating Zionist, right?

What a goof.

And yeah, it is a cheap attempt at victim-hood. I see the raising of funds in Pakistan through the selling of ginned up religious sensationalism as just that; an attempt to play the victim. The outcome is outrage and ultimately money.

I thought an expert conspiracy nutjob such as yourself would have easily connected those obvious dots. Oh, but you're a muslim, so you can't see or say anything against anything muslim, including disingenuous reports from 'unofficial sources', when they're presented.

[Super19]

So sifting through the information you've received so far, what is your stance on the situation in Burma? Is all you really have to say, "but those hypocritical Muslims still pour acid on the face of their woman!". Are you for real man? Out of the 1.6 billion Muslims in the world, you are taking such a small group and wiping us all with the same brush? You're seriously doing that? And to top it off, you're taking this chance to say how bad *small group of* Muslims are by saying it in lieu of a peoples being persecuted? You're way more disgusting than me in the Aurora thread.

[Super19]

So did you feel and express the same outrage about Christians getting attacked by Muslims in a similar manner in places like Nigeria, Sudan, Egypt and Indonesia?

[Buggernut]

So sifting through the information you've received so far, what is your stance on the situation in Burma? Is all you really have to say, "but those hypocritical Muslims still pour acid on the face of their woman!". Are you for real man? Out of the 1.6 billion Muslims in the world, you are taking such a small group and wiping us all with the same brush? You're seriously doing that? And to top it off, you're taking this chance to say how bad *small group of* Muslims are by saying it in lieu of a peoples being persecuted? You're way more disgusting than me in the Aurora thread.