Buddhas Hand Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Merely your own opinion, desires and beliefs speaking in the context of your ideology within the only society and culture you seem to know of, while ignoring history and cultures from around the world, including the West. Today, here and now seems to be all you know and all you care about knowing (which is fine if you want to ignore history and facts). Aishah's father and mother gave their daughter to Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him) in marriage once she reached the age of mentruation/puberty, so what difference does it make what you or I would want for our daughter? Nobody objected to that marriage and everyone around them were happy, especially the parents (as indicated by some of the very Hadith you provided). Furthermore (and obviously), this was not at all an uncommon practice then and there and in fact around much of the world up until the 1900's. As already pointed out (and I can keep repeating myself all day if you like) many may also like to know that up until the 1900's the age of consent in much of the USA was 10 years old and in some cases 7 years old. So was America (and much of the world for that matter) governed by pedophiles back then? Perhaps the grandparents or great grandparents or great great or great great great grandparents of many people around the world are also pedophiles according to your own desires? http://chnm.gmu.edu/...mary-sources/24 We can, however; perhaps agree that times have changed as have cultural paradigms. Here in Canada it wasn't until 2008 that the age of consent was raised from 14 to 16. And here is perhaps a better and more accurate definition: Paedophilia A. The general criteria for Disorders of sexual preference must be met. B. A persistent or a predominant preference for sexual activity with a prepubescent child or children. http://www.who.int/c.../en/GRNBOOK.pdf Aishah was not prepubescent and most of Prophet Muhammad's wives were widows (once again, as I had already mentioned). Ignoring these facts do not make you correct or accurate in reality, regardless of your personal beliefs and iedology. You can profess to your heart's desire that you do not agree with, or whatever, it but to refer to it as 'pedophilia' amounts to nothing more than ignorance and nonsense. Furthermore, what I stated regarding women reverting to Islam is not a claim, it is fact. In the UK, 100,000+ individuals reverted to Islam in the past decade and between 62%-75% of those were estimated to be women, for example. Yvonne Ridley reverted to Islam after being taken captive by the Taliban in Afghanistan. Also: Not only this but we see it with our own eyes here in our community. Do you think that all those women are all oblivious to what you are trying to accomplish here? Do you think they've never heard the likes of 'Islam is a mysoginist religion with injustice between genders and abuses and oppresses women' or anything else in the 'arsenal'? Go try it on them...you just may be surprised at the responses you get. So while you persist in pointing out your own personal beliefs and desires based on your own ideology within the context of your own culture in your own time, I will persist in pointing out facts, with all due respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajusta Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Do you want me to come over and say that to you? Is it a joke? Yes, a tragic one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VICanucksfan5551 Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Is all this is to you? A joke? Easy to be behind a computer and saying that. I'd like to see you say that in public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Evil Twin Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 So what's your point? Should life be viewed as sacred and worth saving? Or is it irrational to put such significance to life? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevlach Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 First of all...we don't have any beliefs...that is the point of atheism....we are without a belief system. Secondly, we don't threaten people emptily with eternal damnation or violence just because people don't agree with us. There is a HUGE difference between us and those "right wing christian nutjobs" you compared us with. Get a clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevlach Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Also I think it's a mix of atheism being on the rise and (as the article says) "that more people are willing to identify as atheists" mostly thanks to the work of people like Harris or Hitchens who have made it more acceptable to say you are an atheist without fear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajusta Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Why is god's genocide so irrelevant to you in your worship of god, yet a part of god's plan in wiping out the Jews attracts such disdain? Human life is just like anything, should be taken in context - was the genocide of the Jews one of the defining events of the 20th century with effects felt to this day? Absolutely. Will it remain a powerful symbol of human suffering and triumph over what we can call "evil"? Of course not. In a thousand years it will be a footnote in history, in 10 it will be forgotten, in 100,000 our species will either be extinct or spread around the galaxy with lives numbering in trillions. Is life worth saving? What an absurd question to ask. My life is important to me, yet is completely irrelevant to billions of people around the planet. Is it worth saving? You tell me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted August 16, 2012 Author Share Posted August 16, 2012 Also I think it's a mix of atheism being on the rise and (as the article says) "that more people are willing to identify as atheists" mostly thanks to the work of people like Harris or Hitchens who have made it more acceptable to say you are an atheist without fear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malaria Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KBx4vvlbZ8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted August 16, 2012 Author Share Posted August 16, 2012 I thought this letter from a Psychology Professor to his students would fit nicely in this thread: Hello, Cross-Cultural students, I am writing to express my views on how some of you have conducted yourself in this university course you are taking with me. It is not uncommon for some-to-many American students, who typically, are first-generation college students, to not fully understand, and maybe not even appreciate the purpose of a university. Some students erroneously believe a university is just an extension of high school, where students are spoon-fed “soft” topics and dilemmas to confront, regurgitate the “right” answers on exams (right answers as deemed by the instructor or a textbook), and then move on to the next course. Not only is this not the purpose of a university (although it may feel like it is in some of your other courses), it clearly is not the purpose of my upper-division course on Cross-Cultural Psychology. The purpose of a university, and my course in particular, is to struggle intellectually with some of life's most difficult topics that may not have one right answer, and try to come to some conclusion about what may be “the better answer” (It typically is not the case that all views are equally valid; some views are more defensible than others). Another purpose of a university, and my course in particular, is to engage in open discussion in order to critically examine beliefs, behaviors, and customs. Finally, another purpose of a university education is to help students who typically are not accustomed to thinking independently or applying a critical analysis to views or beliefs, to start learning how to do so. We are not in class to learn “facts” and simply regurgitate the facts in a mindless way to items on a test. Critical thinking is a skill that develops over time. Independent thinking does not occur overnight. Critical thinkers are open to having their cherished beliefs challenged, and must learn how to “defend” their views based on evidence or logic, rather than simply “pounding their chest” and merely proclaiming that their views are “valid.” One characteristic of the critical, independent thinker is being able to recognize fantasy versus reality; to recognize the difference between personal beliefs which are nothing more than personal beliefs, versus views that are grounded in evidence, or which have no evidence. Last class meeting and for 15 minutes today, we addressed “religious bigotry.” Several points are worth contemplating: Religion and culture go “hand in hand.” For some cultures, they are so intertwined that it is difficult to know with certainty if a specific belief or custom is “cultural” or “religious” in origin. The student in class tonight who proclaimed that my class was supposed to be about different cultures (and not religion) lacks an understanding about what constitutes “culture.” (of course, I think her real agenda was to stop my comments about religion). Students in my class who openly proclaimed that Christianity is the most valid religion, as some of you did last class, portrayed precisely what religious bigotry is. Bigots—racial bigot or religious bigots—never question their prejudices and bigotry. They are convinced their beliefs are correct. For the Christians in my class who argued the validity of Christianity last week, I suppose I should thank you for demonstrating to the rest of the class what religious arrogance and bigotry looks like. It seems to have not even occurred to you (I'm directing this comment to those students who manifested such bigotry), as I tried to point out in class tonight, how such bigotry is perceived and experienced by the Muslims, the Hindus, the Buddhists, the non-believers, and so on, in class, to have to sit and endure the tyranny of the masses (the dominant group, that is, which in this case, are Christians). The male student who stood up in class and directed the rest of the class to “not participate” by not responding to my challenge, represented the worst of education. For starters, the idea that a person—student or instructor—would instruct other students on how to behave, is pretty arrogant and grossly disrespects the rights of other students who can and want to think for themselves and decide for themselves whether they want to engage in the exchange of ideas or not. Moreover, this “let's just put our fingers in our ears so we will not hear what we disagree with” is appallingly childish and exemplifies “anti-intellectualism.” The purpose of a university is to engage in dialogue, debate, and exchange ideas in order to try and come to some meaningful conclusion about an issue at hand. Not to shut ourselves off from ideas we find threatening. Universities hold a special place in society where scholarly-minded folks can come together and discuss controversial, polemic, and often uncomfortable topics. Universities, including UCF, have special policies in place to protect our (both professors’ and students’) freedom to express ourselves. Neither students nor professors have a right to censor speech that makes us uncomfortable. We're adults. We're at a university. There is no topic that is “off-limits” for us to address in class, if even only remotely related to the course topic. I hope you will digest this message, and just as important, will take it to heart as it may apply to you. Charles Negy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajusta Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 I thought this letter from a Psychology Professor to his students would fit nicely in this thread: Reminds me of a few of my professors back in the day. These were the types of professors that I learned the most from. I couldn't agree with him more and I couldn't applaud him more in the way he corresponded with his students. Viral brilliance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted August 16, 2012 Author Share Posted August 16, 2012 I love the excerpt from this professor. Would love to talk critically on such matters like atheism and religion. Sharpshooter, are you ever going to get back to me on why you believe in such things as you do? What evidence do you have in such theories? What is a credible source to you, and is there any faith to those credible sources? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddhas Hand Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 It doesn't take a Christian to realize what senseless dabber rejecting free worship and the teaching of religion. Canada is founded on these freedoms. Simply, if you don't like freedoms then you can leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Evil Twin Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 How typical - using an argument that assumes the premise that God exists where you don't even accept that premise. Where would we ever go If I tried to explain the suffering on earth when you reject the notion that suffering doesn't even make a difference in this universe? Get that? Obviously your life is important to you. The simplest animals behave in such a way. But, you don't care about the billions of others who live on this earth? Sounds exactly where your beliefs lie. Is this true? Can you confirm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MANGO Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajusta Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 wow....passionate topic To tell you the truth. I don't feel a need to argue the point to much because ...I HAVE FAITH IN MY BELIEFS. And making you believe them, is not something I require to make my FAITH any stronger. Im going out mtbing.......I'll be back........:-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted August 16, 2012 Author Share Posted August 16, 2012 Finally an atheist that understands faith is required for the belief of nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajusta Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Writing in 1982, when the Charter came into force, constitutional scholar Peter Hogg noted that these words, being a preamble, could not really be applied by the courts but in theory could help to determine how other sections of the Charter should be read and applied. In this particular case, however, Hogg expressed doubt as to how much help this preamble could be, noting the term "rule of law" is "notoriously vague" and that the mention of the "supremacy of God" is contrary to section 2 of the Charter, which protects freedom of conscience, which Hogg felt would include a right to atheism.[1] In R. v. Morgentaler (1988), Justice Bertha Wilson defined freedom of conscience as protecting "conscientious beliefs which are not religiously motivated", and balanced the preamble out with the statement that "the values entrenched in the Charter are those which characterize a free and democratic society". wikipedia no matter how hard you try to to advocate that god and state are linked , it seems there are enough sensible people in canada to ensure that this is not the case . and i reiterate your atitude is so very christian , if you do not believe what i believe then you can piss off , christian tolerance right there . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VICanucksfan5551 Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Finally an atheist that understands faith is required for the belief of nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevlach Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. So with regards to a "god" what is extraordinary evidence anyway? That's meant for everyone not just atheists/agnostics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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