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Religion cannot be proven by worldly sciences


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#1441 Pouria

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 01:05 AM

I still use this saying today. Anybody who makes a blanket statement about groups of people are like a mirror. Generally they're the exact same as the image in front of them they're trying to belittle. People will always be people. Some of them believe in the matrix and some of them see the matrix; but neither of those two are exclusive to any group/religion/race/belief/muffins.

Making absolute statements about a group and then having the gall to call them stubborn and then make an absolute statement that they will never change. Congrats...that's quite the feat.

You're all dumb... everyone arguing in these types of threads...including me....right now....but I couldn't resist the sweet fruit that was your silly post. Why do I get the feeling that just like Scooby Doo if we pulled your mask off you'd be the old guy running the amusement park. (read: some other poster hiding behind a new account...perhaps that's not news though and I'm just not in the know)


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#1442 EmployeeoftheMonth

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 01:27 AM

The hypocrisy. It's palpable.

You condemn people for making blanket statements.

Then you make a blanket statement.


We don't definitively know the answer to these questions, that makes it pointless to discuss?

No. It's not. Discussions are good. This particular one has been largely civil. If you don't like it, don't participate.

Congrats you won the cookie.

Wait actually I pretty clearly laid out the hypocrisy didn't I? Give me my god damn cookie back.

Don't believe I ever used the word pointless though...discussions are good...I agree but would you say the post I was responding to was at all open to much good discussion?

It's ok kid...you just didn't get it. It's hard to read inflection though even if it's hinted at so who could blame you.

By the way your syllables are waaaayyyyy off for a haiku. You went 8 - 11 - 8 but it's totally supposed to be 5 - 7 -5

Edited by EmployeeoftheMonth, 25 September 2012 - 01:45 AM.

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#1443 EmployeeoftheMonth

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 01:31 AM

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Yeah I liked that part too.
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#1444 Bitter Melon

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 01:55 AM

Congrats you won the cookie.

Wait actually I pretty clearly laid out the hypocrisy didn't I? Give me my god damn cookie back.

Don't believe I ever used the word pointless though...discussions are good...I agree but would you say the post I was responding to was at all open to much good discussion?

It's ok kid...you just didn't get it. It's hard to read inflection though even if it's hinted at so who could blame you.

By the way your syllables are waaaayyyyy off for a haiku. You went 8 - 11 - 8 but it's totally supposed to be 5 - 7 -5


When someone says "You're all idiots" for arguing in a thread, it's a fairly safe bet to assume they think it's pointless.

By the way your grammar is way off. Ellipsis should be used for when parts of speech are suddenly cut out. Not for adding time between posts. Unless you want people to read your posts in a dying man's voice. But who am I to tell you, you are the master of inflection.

I think you should head off to bed now. You've got a big day at school tomorrow.

Edited by CAPSLOCK, 25 September 2012 - 01:56 AM.

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#1445 EmployeeoftheMonth

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 02:29 AM

When someone says "You're all idiots" for arguing in a thread, it's a fairly safe bet to assume they think it's pointless.

By the way your grammar is way off. Ellipsis should be used for when parts of speech are suddenly cut out. Not for adding time between posts. Unless you want people to read your posts in a dying man's voice. But who am I to tell you, you are the master of inflection.

I think you should head off to bed now. You've got a big day at school tomorrow.



Good call FIRETRUCK.

You still didn't get it huh? Trying to snipe back will only make it worse you know.

Also...those aren't ellipsis...their intention is simple for a break in speech. So which is it am I an old man or am I off to school tomorrow? Yes you certainly are one to be telling people what good discussion is and is not now aren't you. Yuo you piss and moan about people making comments about you because they disagree with you opinion and then here you are doing that same thing. Hypocrisy indeed.


Let me ask you something to get you steered in the right direction. Did you get what I was saying about blanket statements in regards to the once great poster Biexalents post? It wasn't hard to get really so I'm sure you did. Did you noticed the part where I included myself in that "you're all idiots" blanket statement? It seems in your struggle to make a point you missed that part. Perhaps best just to let it go.

Edited by EmployeeoftheMonth, 25 September 2012 - 02:34 AM.

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#1446 Kryten

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 05:50 AM

To be fair EOTM acknowledged himself when he made his original post, he didn't really have a choice because he is an addict and that post by Biexellent was like a line of blow calling his name.

That being said I obviously disagree with EOTM, or else I wouldn't be one of the idiots. To many the discussion seems futile much like discussions between the political left or right, both sides swinging for the fences, having no regard for what the other is saying. It seems that way but isn't. This discussion is really for the silent ones, the lurkers who are either really interested in these discussions or are literally having a crisis of faith and need these discussions to understand what it is they are feeling and are looking for justification (like what I'm doing right now) to make a decision that will affect their lives forever. It's the undecideds. I know this because I was one. I read every book I could about religion (Ovid's metamorphoses, The Divine Comedy, Paradise Lost, the Bible, Beyond Good and Evil, Thus Spoke Zarathustra, The Satanic Bible, Necronomicon; for example) but what truly swayed my decision was a discussion like in this thread.

Keep swinging for the fences folks.
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#1447 Heretic

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 07:53 AM

Yes it does, you are incorrect, again.

Galileo was considered a HERETIC.

Told ya.

Dragon's did not exist :rolleyes: , sorry to burst your bubble dic, er, Heretic.


The Bible does not mention Galileo. The Bible does not mention dickhead (as a slang word in reference to how someone is acting).

You told me nothing except prove that things exist even though they are not mentioned in the Bible.
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McCoy: We were speculating. Is God really out there?
Kirk: Maybe he's not out there, Bones. Maybe he's right here. [points to his heart]

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#1448 Remy

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 08:22 AM

When someone says "You're all idiots" for arguing in a thread, it's a fairly safe bet to assume they think it's pointless.

By the way your grammar is way off. Ellipsis should be used for when parts of speech are suddenly cut out. Not for adding time between posts. Unless you want people to read your posts in a dying man's voice. But who am I to tell you, you are the master of inflection.

I think you should head off to bed now. You've got a big day at school tomorrow.


The first sentence of your second paragraph is a hanging clause but you're missing the comma. Sorry, couldn't resist.
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#1449 EmployeeoftheMonth

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 08:26 AM

To be fair EOTM acknowledged himself when he made his original post, he didn't really have a choice because he is an addict and that post by Biexellent was like a line of blow calling his name.

That being said I obviously disagree with EOTM, or else I wouldn't be one of the idiots. To many the discussion seems futile much like discussions between the political left or right, both sides swinging for the fences, having no regard for what the other is saying. It seems that way but isn't. This discussion is really for the silent ones, the lurkers who are either really interested in these discussions or are literally having a crisis of faith and need these discussions to understand what it is they are feeling and are looking for justification (like what I'm doing right now) to make a decision that will affect their lives forever. It's the undecideds. I know this because I was one. I read every book I could about religion (Ovid's metamorphoses, The Divine Comedy, Paradise Lost, the Bible, Beyond Good and Evil, Thus Spoke Zarathustra, The Satanic Bible, Necronomicon; for example) but what truly swayed my decision was a discussion like in this thread.

Keep swinging for the fences folks.

To be fair EOTM acknowledged himself when he made his original post, he didn't really have a choice because he is an addict and that post by Biexellent was like a line of blow calling his name.

That being said I obviously disagree with EOTM, or else I wouldn't be one of the idiots. To many the discussion seems futile much like discussions between the political left or right, both sides swinging for the fences, having no regard for what the other is saying. It seems that way but isn't. This discussion is really for the silent ones, the lurkers who are either really interested in these discussions or are literally having a crisis of faith and need these discussions to understand what it is they are feeling and are looking for justification (like what I'm doing right now) to make a decision that will affect their lives forever. It's the undecideds. I know this because I was one. I read every book I could about religion (Ovid's metamorphoses, The Divine Comedy, Paradise Lost, the Bible, Beyond Good and Evil, Thus Spoke Zarathustra, The Satanic Bible, Necronomicon; for example) but what truly swayed my decision was a discussion like in this thread.

Keep swinging for the fences folks.



I think it seems that way because partially it is but I also never said the discussion is futile...just that we're all idiots for having it. I may not have been a big part of this little thread but I was at least a moderate part of the old behemoth that was the god thread. Circular arguments being made over and over and over again for thousands of pages filled with good discussion, incredible insights incredible ignorance (from all angles) and very little movement. But very little movement means some and that where what you're talking about comes in with your personal story.

The discussion is silly in that nothing will ever get resolved and the reality is there is no "knowing" which is why we're all idiots, (I said we that time so as not to confuse ;) ) but futile would mean there is no purpose which I don't believe is the case on the whole. Some conversations that go on are...like the one I had last night...but that's bound to happen from time to time.
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#1450 Gumballthechewy

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 08:32 AM

Why is every post in this thread bolded?

-edit-

Ok they where, that was wired....

Edited by Gumballthechewy, 25 September 2012 - 08:32 AM.

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Don't take anything I say seriously! EVER!


#1451 Nevlach

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 08:38 AM

Why is every post in this thread bolded?

-edit-

Ok they where, that was wired....

It's a miracle!
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#1452 Sharpshooter

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 09:01 AM

I think it seems that way because partially it is but I also never said the discussion is futile...just that we're all idiots for having it. I may not have been a big part of this little thread but I was at least a moderate part of the old behemoth that was the god thread. Circular arguments being made over and over and over again for thousands of pages filled with good discussion, incredible insights incredible ignorance (from all angles) and very little movement. But very little movement means some and that where what you're talking about comes in with your personal story.

The discussion is silly in that nothing will ever get resolved and the reality is there is no "knowing" which is why we're all idiots, (I said we that time so as not to confuse ;) ) but futile would mean there is no purpose which I don't believe is the case on the whole. Some conversations that go on are...like the one I had last night...but that's bound to happen from time to time.



You got a purty maouth.
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#1453 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 09:18 AM

Insert 'hillarious' animated gif here?

It's starting to become quite obvious why the previous God thread was locked, isn't it? Antitheism is a major source of destructive negativity. I suggest you find religion to calm yourself and gain inner peace. Try atheism.
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#1454 Sharpshooter

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 09:22 AM

Insert 'hillarious' animated gif here?

It's starting to become quite obvious why the previous God thread was locked, isn't it? Antitheism is a major source of destructive negativity. I suggest you find religion to calm yourself and gain inner peace. Try atheism.


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Edited by Sharpshooter, 25 September 2012 - 09:23 AM.

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#1455 EmployeeoftheMonth

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 09:48 AM

You got a purty maouth.

squeal like a pig boy.
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#1456 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 09:49 AM

"Memegenerator activate!" lol

They don't pray to a deity in many religions, but atheism as a religion would be giving the your 'off button' a belief system, so it has equal status to your channels. Such as, “Nothing exists besides natural phenomena. Thought is merely a function of that natural phenomena. Death is complete, and irreversible. We have faith solely in humankind, nature, and the facts of science.” It's a 'faith' based on blah, blah, blah, but it's still a faith. Therefore it qualifies as a religion. You'd be amazed as to how many religions based on miscellaneous crap are started. I don't see how atheism, already being a relative social power, cannot take off as organized religion. Like i said, Scientology started with far less to work with.

However, while certian atheist activists would be alright with gaining official religion status, i don't think antitheists will like atheism as a religion, on account that they reject religion entirely and atheism as a religion is hypocrisy.

I'm of the opinion that everyone is a 'hypocrite' anyway. For example, i started a 'Jesus was just a man' thread but am arguing with antitheists in this thread. (Time for an 'I'm a Hypocrite!' meme generation?) It makes little sense unless you don't see it as hypocrisy, but as simply not conforming to either belief system. Point being that these 'let's make a religion out of atheism' atheists probably don't view themselves as hypocrites, but as having an open mind.
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#1457 Nevlach

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 10:08 AM

I guess it depends on your definition of a religious organization...

Make a stance on the existence of god - check

Have groups and organizations - check

Try to convert others to hold the same view - check

Think their view is the correct one and everyone else's is wrong - check

Make fun of others for their foolish beliefs - check

Yeah I would say atheism is starting to look more and more like a religion of its own....
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#1458 Sharpshooter

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 10:19 AM

I guess it depends on your definition of a religious organization...

Make a stance on the existence of god - check

Have groups and organizations - check

Try to convert others to hold the same view - check

Think their view is the correct one and everyone else's is wrong - check

Make fun of others for their foolish beliefs - check

Yeah I would say atheism is starting to look more and more like a religion of its own....


Let me start with the first one, now pay attention....

"There is no credible evidence currently to suggest that there is a god"

Is that a rigid stance? Nope, it's a conclusion based on observation of the evidence thus far, but, if you want to recalibrate what the definition of religion is in order to make a point that has nothing to do with the topic of the thread, then by all means, don't let me or logic get in the way.


Poke hole in someone's logic off the mark.....check.

Edited by Sharpshooter, 25 September 2012 - 10:20 AM.

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#1459 Nevlach

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 10:26 AM

Let me start with the first one, now pay attention....

"There is no credible evidence currently to suggest that there is a god"

Is that a rigid stance? Nope, it's a conclusion based on observation of the evidence thus far, but, if you want to recalibrate what the definition of religion is in order to make a point that has nothing to do with the topic of the thread, then by all means, don't let me or logic get in the way.


Poke hole in someone's logic off the mark.....check.

So you started with the first one...and then ended with the first one. Even if I gave you the first one, which I don't, the argument can still be made that atheism resembles a religious organization pretty darn close.

Buddhists don't typically believe in a God either...or sorry "lack a belief in a god" but yet they're still a religion.

If you want to pretend that lacking a belief in god automatically exempts atheism from potentially someday being classified as it's own religion then by all means go ahead. It doesn't change the fact that it does resemble a religious organization or that there are groups of atheists who not only lack a belief but also do not believe. We can't make the mistake of generalizing all atheists as simply people who lack belief, though doubtless there are many.

Just because you don't like the similarities doesn't mean you can just throw em out the window.

edit
Notice I never said atheism was a religion - similar to how deism or theism is not a religion - but atheism is certainly starting to resemble a religious organization based on how (I would say anyway) the majority of atheists carry themselves.

Edited by Nevlach, 25 September 2012 - 10:30 AM.

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#1460 J.R.

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 10:48 AM

So a lack of belief in god due to a complete and utter lack of evidence and a desire to combat ignorance that affects our daily lives and governance is now considered a religion...? :blink:
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#1461 Nevlach

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 10:55 AM

So a lack of belief in god due to a complete and utter lack of evidence and a desire to combat ignorance that affects our daily lives and governance is now considered a religion...? :blink:

Hmm who said that?

It wasn't I...and if you thought it was maybe you should re-read what I wrote?

Edited by Nevlach, 25 September 2012 - 10:55 AM.

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#1462 J.R.

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 11:08 AM

You and TML keep going on about Atheism is a religion. I'm an Atheist and that's my view on the situation. Somehow to you two my view then equals a religion.

Or are you taking back the (ignorant and plain wrong) blanket statement that Atheism is a religion?
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#1463 Nevlach

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 11:16 AM

You and TML keep going on about Atheism is a religion. I'm an Atheist and that's my view on the situation. Somehow to you two my view then equals a religion.

Or are you taking back the (ignorant and plain wrong) blanket statement that Atheism is a religion?

What are you talking about? I said atheism is a religion like deism and theism is a religion (thus, it's not a religion). But I did say the similarities between atheist organizations and religious organizations are very high.

I never said atheism is a religion, nor do I hold that belief! But you have to admit there are some pretty strong similarities between the two organizations.

Edited by Nevlach, 25 September 2012 - 11:23 AM.

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#1464 Sharpshooter

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 11:48 AM

What are you talking about? I said atheism is a religion like deism and theism is a religion (thus, it's not a religion). But I did say the similarities between atheist organizations and religious organizations are very high.

I never said atheism is a religion, nor do I hold that belief! But you have to admit there are some pretty strong similarities between the two organizations.


Actually, no, I nor JR don't have to 'admit' that there are 'some pretty strong similarities' between the Christian religion, for instance, and non-belief.

If Atheism is 'like a religion', then baldness is 'like a hairstyle'...as both are absent of the primary component of their respective and supposed definitions.
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#1465 J.R.

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 11:53 AM

What are you talking about? I said atheism is a religion like deism and theism is a religion (thus, it's not a religion). But I did say the similarities between atheist organizations and religious organizations are very high.

I never said atheism is a religion, nor do I hold that belief! But you have to admit there are some pretty strong similarities between the two organizations.


I can not state this clear enough...

ATHEISM IS NOT AN ORGANIZATION!
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#1466 Nevlach

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 11:56 AM

Actually, no, I nor JR don't have to 'admit' that there are 'some pretty strong similarities' between the Christian religion, for instance, and non-belief.

If Atheism is 'like a religion', then baldness is 'like a hairstyle'...as both are absent of the primary component of their respective and supposed definitions.

I fail to see how the dissimilarities between atheism itself and Christianity itself negate the fact that atheists and atheistic organizations seem to be pretty similar to religious organizations and the people therein.

Is baldness a haristyle? No obviously not (similar to why I said atheism is not a religion above). But is it similar to a haristyle? Sure; both deal with hair, appearances, the head, perhaps even impacting one's outlook - as in "I feel self conscious and anxious about my bald head" or "I think my bald head is awesome."

Many atheistic organizations carry themselves very similarly to how certain religious organizations carry themselves. And often atheists are just about as passionate in their unbelief as the religious are in their beliefs.
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#1467 Nevlach

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 11:58 AM

I can not state this clear enough...

ATHEISM IS NOT AN ORGANIZATION!

Oh tell that to the American Atheist Association...they missed the memo.

Notice if you will I said atheism is similar to theism and deism - NONE of those are religions.

Just because atheism, theism, and deism are not organizations does not mean groups of people who share those views cannot make organizations based on their common views. Case and point - the American Atheist Association, or the Skeptic Society etc etc etc.

Edited by Nevlach, 25 September 2012 - 12:00 PM.

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#1468 J.R.

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 11:59 AM

So there are wing-nuts of all stripes is your point....? How does this add to the conversation about religion and the provability of it/god(s)?
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#1469 J.R.

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 12:00 PM

Oh tell that to the American Atheist Association...they missed the memo.

Notice if you will I said atheism is similar to theism and deism - NONE of those are religions.


The American Atheist Association may very well be an "organization". Atheism is not.

Edited by J.R., 25 September 2012 - 12:01 PM.

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#1470 Nevlach

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 12:03 PM

The American Atheist Association may very well be an "organization". Atheism is not.

Yes I do believe that is what I said :P

And I don't know - when I came on here people were comparing religion with atheism - so I chimed in by saying the organizations are similar but atheism is not a religion...100 posts later here we are ;)
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