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#1 shadowgoon

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 09:41 PM

Provided the Canucks and Panthers have a deal in principle and are just waiting on timing for it to go through, with the deal centering around Matthias, Ellerby and a pick for Luongo+X, this is what I would be comfortable with sending Chicago's way.

This deals from a position of strength, and assumes the Edler contract extension negotiations don't go according to plan (IE his agent demanding he make more than the allotted 4.6 max currently awarded to Bieksa and Garrison as per the internal salary structure).

To Chicago:

Alex Edler
Jordan Shroeder
1st Round pick 2013

To Vancouver:

Patrick Sharp
Niklas Hjalmarsson


Why each team does this:

Vancouver gets a playmaking winger to play with Booth and Kesler (once healthy) and a far less offensive but equally defensively adept defenceman at the expense of a difficult to negotiate potential Norris candidate defenceman on the last year of a contract. The key here is that Hjalmarsson is not just a throw in, he's a big body capable of handling the bigger forwards in the league while maintaining defensive responsibility. Paired with Garrison who is another very solid defender with offensive upside, it gives the Canucks essentially 2 shut down pairings, maintaining offensive capability on each pairing.

Chicago does this as they have a glut of young burgeoning offensive talent on their roster who will all be vying for roster spots. They shore up their defensive core and should have ample time to negotiate a new deal with Edler before he's anywhere near heading into July 1st as a UFA. Chicago also adds to their stable of young talent with Schroeder nearly NHL ready, if he's not already there and add what should amount to a late 1st round pick in a deep draft.

This is how the Canuck's roster would shape up after the trade (including the Luongo deal)



FORWARDS

Daniel Sedin ($6.100m) / Henrik Sedin ($6.100m) / Alexandre Burrows ($2.000m)
David Booth ($4.250m) / Ryan Kesler ($5.000m) / Patrick Sharp ($5.900m)
Chris Higgins ($1.900m) / Shawn Matthias ($0.852m) / Jannik Hansen ($1.350m)
Maxim Lapierre ($1.000m) / Manny Malhotra ($2.500m) / Zack Kassian ($0.870m)
Mason Raymond ($2.275m) /

DEFENSEMEN

Kevin Bieksa ($4.600m) / Dan Hamhuis ($4.500m)
Niklas Hjalmarsson ($3.500m) / Jason Garrison ($4.600m)
Keith Ballard ($4.200m) / Chris Tanev ($0.900m)
Andrew Alberts ($1.225m)

GOALTENDERS
Cory Schneider ($4.000m)
Dan Ellis ($1.200m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $68,821,625; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $1,378,375

Edited by Shadowgoon, 19 August 2012 - 09:50 PM.

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#2 Pears

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 09:43 PM

Sharp isn't a playmaker? And I don't want to trade Edler to a rival like Chicago.

Edited by Steven Stamkos' Mullet, 19 August 2012 - 09:43 PM.

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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#3 CanucksFanMike

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 09:44 PM

We should't downgrade on defence... I really like how our top six looks right now

Sharp would fit in well on the second line but Kassian should get a shot and Higgy seems to play well on the AMEX line, not to mention mase should be given a chance to bounce back with a few games early on in the year on the 2nd so that he doesn't just sit in the press box.
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#4 Jägermeister

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 09:45 PM

(Not Realistic)
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#5 Mayray2112

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 09:46 PM

Chicago's doesn't really need Edler with Keith and Seabrook as 1st D pairing and they aren't going anywhere anytime soon

Edit: also Edler is a UFA next year

Edited by Mayray2112, 19 August 2012 - 09:51 PM.

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#6 elvis15

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 10:00 PM

I wouldn't go for that, although if we don't think we can give Edler more than $4.6M, we might as well trade him right now, since there's no way he makes less than that on his next contract. It might be a couple of years with more money on the extension if we're worried about consistency, but even longer term he makes $5M+ after factoring in the discount.

If you think he's getting moved because he asks for more than $4.6M and we don't want to give it to him, what makes you think Gillis would bring back two players with $5.9M (for 5 more years!) and $3.5M cap hits.
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#7 The Magician

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 10:01 PM

I always thought Hjalmarsson was overpaid
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#8 shadowgoon

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 10:03 PM

Sharp isn't a playmaker? And I don't want to trade Edler to a rival like Chicago.


Sharp may not be your bread and butter play maker, as he does have a shooters mentality. What he is though, is a dangler neither of which Booth or Kesler are, and that in and of itself makes him just as good as a play maker when you combine his ability to pass and rush the puck.

As for downgrading the defense, the defense would be the same if not better than it was with Edler. What you lose from the defense is Edler's near 50 points from the back end, slightly fewer than half of which came on the PP. I would expect Garrison to fill in a lot of that PP point void, also look for Ballard to have a stronger season and should improve offensively.

Beyond Keith and Seabrook who does Chicago have to fill a solid T4 role? Leddy? Ok that's 3 defencemen, Edler makes it 4 which solidifies their core. Edler = Hjalmarsson + Offence.

In essence, the Canucks improve their T6 scoring and average out their defense (from an offensive point of view) but strengthen it at the same time defensively.
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#9 Tom Sestito

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 10:20 PM

Look at it from the top players perspective

Sharp for Edler

Schroeder + 1st for Hjalmarsson

I'd do the deal any day, to be honest. I love what Sharp brings to the table. He's one of the most consistent players you'll find. I think the deal is fair. We're giving more for hjalmarsson, but giving less for sharp.

Just my opinion. I'd love to hear what you think, so reply to my comment.

~Canucks forever
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Thank you VC!

#10 kanucks1

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 10:21 PM

Provided the Canucks and Panthers have a deal in principle and are just waiting on timing for it to go through, with the deal centering around Matthias, Ellerby and a pick for Luongo+X, this is what I would be comfortable with sending Chicago's way.

This deals from a position of strength, and assumes the Edler contract extension negotiations don't go according to plan (IE his agent demanding he make more than the allotted 4.6 max currently awarded to Bieksa and Garrison as per the internal salary structure).

To Chicago:

Alex Edler
Jordan Shroeder
1st Round pick 2013

To Vancouver:

Patrick Sharp
Niklas Hjalmarsson


Why each team does this:

Vancouver gets a playmaking winger to play with Booth and Kesler (once healthy) and a far less offensive but equally defensively adept defenceman at the expense of a difficult to negotiate potential Norris candidate defenceman on the last year of a contract. The key here is that Hjalmarsson is not just a throw in, he's a big body capable of handling the bigger forwards in the league while maintaining defensive responsibility. Paired with Garrison who is another very solid defender with offensive upside, it gives the Canucks essentially 2 shut down pairings, maintaining offensive capability on each pairing.

Chicago does this as they have a glut of young burgeoning offensive talent on their roster who will all be vying for roster spots. They shore up their defensive core and should have ample time to negotiate a new deal with Edler before he's anywhere near heading into July 1st as a UFA. Chicago also adds to their stable of young talent with Schroeder nearly NHL ready, if he's not already there and add what should amount to a late 1st round pick in a deep draft.

This is how the Canuck's roster would shape up after the trade (including the Luongo deal)



FORWARDS

Daniel Sedin ($6.100m) / Henrik Sedin ($6.100m) / Alexandre Burrows ($2.000m)
David Booth ($4.250m) / Ryan Kesler ($5.000m) / Patrick Sharp ($5.900m)
Chris Higgins ($1.900m) / Shawn Matthias ($0.852m) / Jannik Hansen ($1.350m)
Maxim Lapierre ($1.000m) / Manny Malhotra ($2.500m) / Zack Kassian ($0.870m)
Mason Raymond ($2.275m) /

DEFENSEMEN

Kevin Bieksa ($4.600m) / Dan Hamhuis ($4.500m)
Niklas Hjalmarsson ($3.500m) / Jason Garrison ($4.600m)
Keith Ballard ($4.200m) / Chris Tanev ($0.900m)
Andrew Alberts ($1.225m)

GOALTENDERS
Cory Schneider ($4.000m)
Dan Ellis ($1.200m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $68,821,625; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $1,378,375


Baddd!!!!

1. Never trade stars to Chicago


So you're saying

Edler=Hjalmarsson
and
Schroeder and a first=Sharp?

Canucks Wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy Overpay!


Thx
Pcuzz B)
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#11 shadowgoon

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 10:57 PM

Look at it from the top players perspective

Sharp for Edler

Schroeder + 1st for Hjalmarsson

I'd do the deal any day, to be honest. I love what Sharp brings to the table. He's one of the most consistent players you'll find. I think the deal is fair. We're giving more for hjalmarsson, but giving less for sharp.

Just my opinion. I'd love to hear what you think, so reply to my comment.

~Canucks forever


Thats pretty close to my valuation. Mainly the 1st is to sweeten the pot to compensate for Chicago trading 2 roster players for essentially 1 if Schroeder doesnt make the team out of camp.

On the other hand Chicago would be essentially clearing over 6 mil in cap space which was the other consideration, which would give them about 13 mil in cap space.

Elder + Cap space = Sharp
Shroeder + 1st = Hjalmarsson

I don't mind trading with Chicago really, they aren't much of a rival. We only play them 4 times a year and have met in the playoffs a few times. Much of the so called rivalry in most fans minds is really just coincidence coupled with poor play on the Canucks side (which could have happened against any team).

Edited by Shadowgoon, 19 August 2012 - 10:59 PM.

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#12 BlurTriX

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 12:13 AM

Look at it from the top players perspective

Sharp for Edler

Schroeder + 1st for Hjalmarsson

I'd do the deal any day, to be honest. I love what Sharp brings to the table. He's one of the most consistent players you'll find. I think the deal is fair. We're giving more for hjalmarsson, but giving less for sharp.

Just my opinion. I'd love to hear what you think, so reply to my comment.

~Canucks forever

If we trade anymore of our picks, I can guarantee you our future wont be good.
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#13 Pineapples

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 01:19 AM

I don't mind trading with Chicago really, they aren't much of a rival. We only play them 4 times a year and have met in the playoffs a few times. Much of the so called rivalry in most fans minds is really just coincidence coupled with poor play on the Canucks side (which could have happened against any team).


This is a massive understatement. If they're not much of a rival, who is? No one by your logic. I suppose there is no such thing as a rivalry in hockey at all, is there? Give me a break...
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#14 shadowgoon

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 07:39 AM

This is a massive understatement. If they're not much of a rival, who is? No one by your logic. I suppose there is no such thing as a rivalry in hockey at all, is there? Give me a break...


Rivalries for the most part are for the fans benefit. Sure players may have grudges against certain others, but it's not a loathing of one organization for another, and if it is then that player or players should have their priorities adjusted.

What you are referring to is a players pride to uphold the legacy of one team versus another, and it's that pride that drives the player to perform actions that might not otherwise be performed against players of different team.

Many fans live vicariously through the team in which they cheer, they seemingly share in the emotional ups and downs, and by extension generate feelings of hate toward other teams for no other reason than "they beat my team".

Looking at sport objectively, and specifically with hockey I am a fan of the competition between the Canucks and Team X. I don't delude myself into thinking that it goes beyond that, I can watch a game, be mad at isolated incidents and once the game's over I move on.

To blame another team for our own teams failures and call it a rivalry is mundane, but hey if that's what floats your boat all the power to ya, it takes all different kinds of folk to run the world.

Edited by Shadowgoon, 20 August 2012 - 07:41 AM.

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#15 Darth Kane

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 08:22 AM

Provided the Canucks and Panthers have a deal in principle and are just waiting on timing for it to go through, with the deal centering around Matthias, Ellerby and a pick for Luongo+X, this is what I would be comfortable with sending Chicago's way.

This deals from a position of strength, and assumes the Edler contract extension negotiations don't go according to plan (IE his agent demanding he make more than the allotted 4.6 max currently awarded to Bieksa and Garrison as per the internal salary structure).

To Chicago:

Alex Edler
Jordan Shroeder
1st Round pick 2013

To Vancouver:

Patrick Sharp
Niklas Hjalmarsson


Why each team does this:

Vancouver gets a playmaking winger to play with Booth and Kesler (once healthy) and a far less offensive but equally defensively adept defenceman at the expense of a difficult to negotiate potential Norris candidate defenceman on the last year of a contract. The key here is that Hjalmarsson is not just a throw in, he's a big body capable of handling the bigger forwards in the league while maintaining defensive responsibility. Paired with Garrison who is another very solid defender with offensive upside, it gives the Canucks essentially 2 shut down pairings, maintaining offensive capability on each pairing.

Chicago does this as they have a glut of young burgeoning offensive talent on their roster who will all be vying for roster spots. They shore up their defensive core and should have ample time to negotiate a new deal with Edler before he's anywhere near heading into July 1st as a UFA. Chicago also adds to their stable of young talent with Schroeder nearly NHL ready, if he's not already there and add what should amount to a late 1st round pick in a deep draft.

This is how the Canuck's roster would shape up after the trade (including the Luongo deal)



FORWARDS

Daniel Sedin ($6.100m) / Henrik Sedin ($6.100m) / Alexandre Burrows ($2.000m)
David Booth ($4.250m) / Ryan Kesler ($5.000m) / Patrick Sharp ($5.900m)
Chris Higgins ($1.900m) / Shawn Matthias ($0.852m) / Jannik Hansen ($1.350m)
Maxim Lapierre ($1.000m) / Manny Malhotra ($2.500m) / Zack Kassian ($0.870m)
Mason Raymond ($2.275m) /

DEFENSEMEN

Kevin Bieksa ($4.600m) / Dan Hamhuis ($4.500m)
Niklas Hjalmarsson ($3.500m) / Jason Garrison ($4.600m)
Keith Ballard ($4.200m) / Chris Tanev ($0.900m)
Andrew Alberts ($1.225m)

GOALTENDERS
Cory Schneider ($4.000m)
Dan Ellis ($1.200m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $68,821,625; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $1,378,375


I know most of you Canucks fans think this is an overpayment on your part, but I can tell you as a Blackhawks fan I would not do this deal. Sharp is one of the key components to our team and nobody knows if Jordan Shroeder will even play in the NHL. You're asking us to give up a top 6 forward and top 4 defense for a top 4 defense, in the long term the deal may even out a bit but Chicago doesn't been to worry about the long term. We have a boat load of prospects that would be ahead of Shroeder. Also, there's no guarantee we'd have Edler beyond this season when we'd have Hjalmarsson for one more and Sharp for 5.

Edler would be nice to have on any team, but he's not the type of guy we need right now. We need somebody more like Hamhuis for our 2nd pairing.

The only type of trade that would be realistic between Chicago and Vancouver would be minor, with the biggest beging something like Frolik for Raymond.
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#16 shadowgoon

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 09:29 AM

I know most of you Canucks fans think this is an overpayment on your part, but I can tell you as a Blackhawks fan I would not do this deal. Sharp is one of the key components to our team and nobody knows if Jordan Shroeder will even play in the NHL. You're asking us to give up a top 6 forward and top 4 defense for a top 4 defense, in the long term the deal may even out a bit but Chicago doesn't been to worry about the long term. We have a boat load of prospects that would be ahead of Shroeder. Also, there's no guarantee we'd have Edler beyond this season when we'd have Hjalmarsson for one more and Sharp for 5.

Edler would be nice to have on any team, but he's not the type of guy we need right now. We need somebody more like Hamhuis for our 2nd pairing.

The only type of trade that would be realistic between Chicago and Vancouver would be minor, with the biggest beging something like Frolik for Raymond.


I'd take Frolik for Raymond.
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#17 Zoolander

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 09:40 AM

Sharp isn't a playmaker, and if this were a realistic proposal, Hossa should be included because CHI is unsure about his health, and we need that dynamic offensive player if he is healthy.

It's a gamble, but if our Doc's say he's okay to play by October or November, we'd have such a stacked top 6.


Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Booth-Kesler-Hossa
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#18 Darth Kane

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 09:40 AM

I'd take Frolik for Raymond.


I'm a fan of Frolik and Raymond, but given our (Blackhawks) roster needs I'd keep Frolik. I was just trying to illustrate the type of trade that could work between our teams. Frolik fills the role of 3rd line defensive forward a bit better than Raymond. Mason's the type of player that should be on the 2nd line but he hasn't been consistently producing there.

Both Frolik and Raymond are in their respective coaches doghouses but I think both are capable of a lot more. Raymond has taken a lot of heat lately, but I hope he bounces back after a long off season of rest and rehabilitation.
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#19 Darth Kane

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 09:45 AM

Sharp isn't a playmaker, and if this were a realistic proposal, Hossa should be included because CHI is unsure about his health, and we need that dynamic offensive player if he is healthy.

It's a gamble, but if our Doc's say he's okay to play by October or November, we'd have such a stacked top 6.


Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Booth-Kesler-Hossa


If you are looking to trade with Chicago then forget about Toews, Kane, Sharp, Hossa, Bolland, Keith, Shaw, Saad and Teravainen - those guys aren't going anywhere. But for the sake of fun if you want to create a proposal then you have to include Kesler and/or Hamhuis. No Ballard, Edler, Luongo, or Raymond.
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#20 Danthecanucksfan

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 09:47 AM

I say stick to your day job.
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#21 Hugemanskost

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 09:55 AM

Hjalmersson is totally overrated and Sharp is on the downside of his career at 30.

Bah!

:towel: :canucks:
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#22 Darth Kane

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 10:02 AM

Hjalmersson is totally overrated and Sharp is on the downside of his career at 30.

Bah!

:towel: :canucks:


Hjalmarsson isn't worth $3.5 million, almost any Hawks fan will tell you that. I'd say Sharp is still in the prime of his career, he's good for 30 goals and he plays on both special teams units. Sharp is the ideal 2nd line centre or winger, although he may be slightly overpaid he's not going anywhere. The Hawks market the heck out of Sharp and he's a big favourite with some of the lady Blackhawks fans in Chicago.
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#23 Bang Bang Boogie

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 10:08 AM

When I see (Realistic) tags on a proposal then I know its unrealistic. That being said, I would love to have Sharp on our team and would consider doing this deal.
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#24 Hugemanskost

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 10:14 AM

Hjalmarsson isn't worth $3.5 million, almost any Hawks fan will tell you that. I'd say Sharp is still in the prime of his career, he's good for 30 goals and he plays on both special teams units. Sharp is the ideal 2nd line centre or winger, although he may be slightly overpaid he's not going anywhere. The Hawks market the heck out of Sharp and he's a big favourite with some of the lady Blackhawks fans in Chicago.


You're right, Darth Kane.

Sharp has been really consistent over the past 5 years, for sure. I'm not sure that he is overpaid. He's a similar player to Kesler who makes $800 000 more. I also don't see him being moved anywhere.

:towel: :canucks:
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#25 Darth Kane

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 10:14 AM

When I see (Realistic) tags on a proposal then I know its unrealistic. That being said, I would love to have Sharp on our team and would consider doing this deal.


Ha ha! I hear you on that.

What would be your realistic offer for Sharp be? Please no Ballard, Edler. Luongo or Malhotra.
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#26 RonMexico

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 10:15 AM

If we trade anymore of our picks, I can guarantee you our future wont be good.


Stop worrying about the future. This team is playing in the now. With the salary cap system, you do not need to be concerned about long term player development as much anymore. It's a hard concept to understand if you have never followed the NFL. The importance will be on 1st and 2nd round picks playing right away and poaching FAs when their contracts are up. There needs to be more emphasis in juniors to create NHL ready players. Not to mention, once teams like the Oilers find they can't re-sign everyone, then other teams will swoop in and take their young players away. I am not saying that this what is GOING to happen, but it is likely to happen if owners get their way more and more with this CBA and future ones.
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#27 Hugemanskost

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 10:23 AM

Stop worrying about the future. This team is playing in the now. With the salary cap system, you do not need to be concerned about long term player development as much anymore. It's a hard concept to understand if you have never followed the NFL. The importance will be on 1st and 2nd round picks playing right away and poaching FAs when their contracts are up. There needs to be more emphasis in juniors to create NHL ready players. Not to mention, once teams like the Oilers find they can't re-sign everyone, then other teams will swoop in and take their young players away. I am not saying that this what is GOING to happen, but it is likely to happen if owners get their way more and more with this CBA and future ones.


The NFL is a much different beast than the NHL. In general, NFL draftees are men in their early twenties. In the NHL, they are mostly still teens who need to develop physically before they are ready for Prime Time. I can't remember the last 2nd rounder to crack an opening day line-up in the NHL. It's rare for a first rounder to make it right away!

:towel: :canucks:
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:towel: :canucks:


#28 Darth Kane

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 10:25 AM

Stop worrying about the future. This team is playing in the now. With the salary cap system, you do not need to be concerned about long term player development as much anymore. It's a hard concept to understand if you have never followed the NFL. The importance will be on 1st and 2nd round picks playing right away and poaching FAs when their contracts are up. There needs to be more emphasis in juniors to create NHL ready players. Not to mention, once teams like the Oilers find they can't re-sign everyone, then other teams will swoop in and take their young players away. I am not saying that this what is GOING to happen, but it is likely to happen if owners get their way more and more with this CBA and future ones.


Poaching other teams FAs is always an option, but it's the more expensive choice. In the salary cap world draft picks are essential to the long term success of a team. I know the Canucks time is now, but Gillis can't completely ignore the future. If you look at the teams who've won the Cup recently they all have a good core that's been drafted then supplemented by trades and FA signings. right now the Canucks have some good home grown talent, but if you look beyond the current roster it doesn't look to promising. There are a few guys that could surprise us all, but you can't rely on that.

Not all your prospects work out, that's why you need as many draft picks as possible to build up the largest pool of possible talent as you can. Under the new CBA there will still be a salary cap and the age to become a UFA will likely increase, this drives up the value of draft picks and especially the players they develop into.

The Canucks time is now but in 5 years this team could be hurting. Gillis should look to replenish the cupboard of prospects in the Luongo trade, even if he has to take back an undesirable salary in the short term.
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#29 shadowgoon

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 10:58 AM

Ha ha! I hear you on that.

What would be your realistic offer for Sharp be? Please no Ballard, Edler. Luongo or Malhotra.


I suppose the offer I postulated was a little backhanded.

Edler + Hansen + Tanev + 2nd for Sharp + Hjalmarsson.

That's 3 roster players and a pick (one a potential Norris candidate, albeit in the last year of a contract. Should have plenty of time to negotiate a deal) for 2 roster players. Edler is an upgrade over Hjalmarsson in nearly all aspects of the game, Tanev is a very good NHL ready young D-man and Hansen I absolutely would hate to give up but is a heart and soul guy who could offensively break out.

This really is about averaging out the Canucks roster and you sometimes need to give up depth and youth to do so. My logic in thinking forward is we have Kassian and Jensen who will soon require larger roles with the team, and we presently have a glut on the 3rd line.

Edited by Shadowgoon, 20 August 2012 - 10:59 AM.

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#30 gwarrior

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 11:03 AM

yeah, lets deal 1 of our top point producing dmen to chicago. pass!!
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