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Do you honestly believe we improved enough?


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#1 Bossy

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 12:24 AM

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I don't.

Garrison is another unproven Florida player who probably wont work out like booth. His contract is huge and there is a possibility he could just flop.

We still have both Luongo and Schneider here and we cannot win with that much value (Not even contract numbers, if you transferred the value of each player to another position we'd be in so much better shape. Players don't appear out of thin air, you have to give up value in one position to gain it somewhere else) wasted on a position where only one of them can make a difference in a game. Don't use the "insurance" argument because we all know that's bunk, we have to offload one of them and get stronger up front.

And talking about up front, our bottom 6 hasn't had much work done to it and it needs it. Out top 6 is the exact same as last season where scoring goals was an issue all season long. It's not a slump, our offense is lack luster.

Also, our defense still doesn't have that anchor. No one really leads the defense. Sure, Hamhius is great but he's not a cup winning #1 defenseman.

I don't see how we go from losing in 5 games in the first round to cup contenders if this is the team we go into the playoffs with.
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#2 Armada

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 12:26 AM

Clearly you don't remember that there's gonna be a lockout.

There's still a year left to improve.

Edited by Armada, 29 August 2012 - 12:27 AM.

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#3 Tig'ol Bitties

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 12:27 AM

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Do you even watch hockey?
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#4 Jägermeister

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 12:27 AM

Out top 6 is the exact same as last season where scoring goals was an issue all season long. It's not a slump, our offense is lack luster.


Seriously???
We scored the 5th most goals in the league.
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#5 ButterBean

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 12:33 AM

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Garrison is unproven? He played a shutdown role in his first full year with Florida and broke out offensively last year while still being reliable defensively. Garrison makes our defense harder to play against as well as being a legitmate power play threat. Obviously Luongo will be dealt, but MG is taking his time and looking for the right deal, we have TONS of time to trade him, it's not like he's stuck with us forever if we can't trade him before the season starts. Plus our prospects will have a chance to show what they're made of this year. Who knows, if anyone surprises, Kassian could be a 40-50 point power forward, Schroeder could be a 2nd line playmaker, and Jensen could be a top 6 sniper. It could be too optimistic but who knows, only time will tell.
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#6 Raph

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 12:34 AM

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Seriously???
We scored the 5th most goals in the league.


Easy to score goals against the Oilers, not so much against the Kings.
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Untouchables: Tanev, Jensen, Kassian
Mostly untouchable: Sedins (need someone to man the fort and no trade value)
Open to trade: Everyone else
Drive to airport: Bieksa, Edler

Bring back: Ehrhoff

#7 The Sedin's 6th Sense

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 12:51 AM

Nope. Our problem since the SCF loss has been lack of scoring in the playoffs and Idk how much we spend on D or acquire new faces on the blueline, but it will not make up for our lack of offense. Our 2nd line is just brutal in the playoffs, compared to teams that have won, and we need illegitimate 2nd line scoring to help - we literally have 1 true 2nd liner, Kesler....rest are more like 3rd liners and for Booth, he hasn't found his touch here. We also need depth cause injuries always hit us in the bum during post-season and lastly, we need a coach who can take his head out of his arsenal and play all 4 lines when in the post-season. [Edit]: Add to that, we still have 2 star goalies on the same team who are getting at least $4 million...only 1 can play, the other is on the bench and it is useless really, and we need either 1 to go, get a good return, and bulk up where we need help / a true scorer, and with our goalies, we can probably land a 1st liner if we trade one. Also, add that there's no use of Ballard if AV makes him sit in the press box and that his cap can be spent more wisely if that will be his fate, but, this is a new season, Salo and Rome are gone, so it seems Ballard will finely be a regular - fit that into coaching/AV problems.

...Honest opinion, not saying I'm right, but what I feel.

Edited by The Sedin's 6th Sense, 29 August 2012 - 12:57 AM.

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#8 etsen3

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 12:53 AM

The team could definitely use some work. I think our D actually looks pretty strong with the addition of Garrison, but up front we need help.

Our biggest need is a 3rd line centre. Last year we had Hodgson and Pahlsson, this year it looks like we have either Manny (IF he regains his old form) or Schroeder (IF he proves he's ready for the show). Those are two huge ifs.

Also, a winger to round out the top 6 would be very nice. Higgins could be good, but he probably won't set the world on fire and he seems to play so well in a 3rd line role. Maybe Shane Doan will sign here.

Another smaller thing I would like is some more help to round out the 4th line. I would to have a full line of actual NHL regulars rather than our current revolving door. Who knows, maybe one of our current fringe guys will really step up and earn a full time spot.

Keep in mind, I'm expecting some pieces from the Luongo trade which will hopefully round out our lineup and turn us into a more dominant team.

Edited by etsen3, 29 August 2012 - 12:54 AM.

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#9 mpt

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 01:00 AM

For the 100th time, MG isn't done yet, he's waiting for the Doan fiasco to get taken care of first before doing anything else.
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#10 Samuel Påhlsson

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 01:31 AM

Y u so Bossy?
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#11 Venage

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 01:41 AM

I don't see how we go from losing in 5 games in the first round to cup contenders if this is the team we go into the playoffs with.


We just lost to a team, whos goalie was hot at the right time. Playoffs are all about the unexpected.
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#12 Kesler's Nose

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 01:51 AM

Just an attention seeking thread, flame away everybody. :rolleyes:
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#13 Rounoush

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 01:55 AM

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#14 Moonshinefe

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 02:07 AM

I don't.

Garrison is another unproven Florida player who probably wont work out like booth. His contract is huge and there is a possibility he could just flop.

We still have both Luongo and Schneider here and we cannot win with that much value (Not even contract numbers, if you transferred the value of each player to another position we'd be in so much better shape. Players don't appear out of thin air, you have to give up value in one position to gain it somewhere else) wasted on a position where only one of them can make a difference in a game. Don't use the "insurance" argument because we all know that's bunk, we have to offload one of them and get stronger up front.

And talking about up front, our bottom 6 hasn't had much work done to it and it needs it. Out top 6 is the exact same as last season where scoring goals was an issue all season long. It's not a slump, our offense is lack luster.

Also, our defense still doesn't have that anchor. No one really leads the defense. Sure, Hamhius is great but he's not a cup winning #1 defenseman.

I don't see how we go from losing in 5 games in the first round to cup contenders if this is the team we go into the playoffs with.


Typical bandwagoner thread. I'm sure you'll be saying how amazing the Canucks are if they win a cup this season.
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#15 Kassian

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 02:08 AM

I know, if we don't hurry up and trade luongo for a top-six forward, we'll be dwelling the cellars with edmonton for years!!!!!!!!!!
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#16 Pears

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 02:32 AM

For the 100th time, MG isn't done yet, he's waiting for the Doan fiasco to get taken care of first before doing anything else.

And all the dominoes will fall once Doan decides where he's going.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

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#17 nuck nit

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 03:09 AM

Seriously???
We scored the 5th most goals in the league.


I think 'we' is the Sedins with Burr.
Second line stunk last year without a healthy Kes.
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#18 Baggins

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 03:34 AM

Easy to score goals against the Oilers, not so much against the Kings.


Very true.

Among starting goalies (more than 41 games played) Quick had the 2nd highest save percentage (.001 behind the leader), lowest GGA, and led the league in shutouts last season. EVERYBODY had trouble scoring against the Kings.
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#19 King of the ES

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 03:51 AM

Typical bandwagoner thread. I'm sure you'll be saying how amazing the Canucks are if they win a cup this season.


And I'm sure that you'll be claiming some league-wide conspiracy towards the Canucks if (read: when) they don't.
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#20 Peter Gunn

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 03:58 AM

I don't.

Garrison is another unproven Florida player who probably wont work out like booth. His contract is huge and there is a possibility he could just flop.

We still have both Luongo and Schneider here and we cannot win with that much value (Not even contract numbers, if you transferred the value of each player to another position we'd be in so much better shape. Players don't appear out of thin air, you have to give up value in one position to gain it somewhere else) wasted on a position where only one of them can make a difference in a game. Don't use the "insurance" argument because we all know that's bunk, we have to offload one of them and get stronger up front.

And talking about up front, our bottom 6 hasn't had much work done to it and it needs it. Out top 6 is the exact same as last season where scoring goals was an issue all season long. It's not a slump, our offense is lack luster.

Also, our defense still doesn't have that anchor. No one really leads the defense. Sure, Hamhius is great but he's not a cup winning #1 defenseman.

I don't see how we go from losing in 5 games in the first round to cup contenders if this is the team we go into the playoffs with.


Two years ago we had a lot of forwards having career years, last year we didn't. One must not assume that Booth and Garrison are going to be busts when one has only been here for part of one season, and the other hasn't played a game for Vancouver yet.

I'll take the approach that Manny will get his game back, Booth and Garrison will be Booth and Garrison, the Twins, Kes and others will have bounce back seasons and some of the younger players will step up and play key roles.

There's also the Luongo and perhaps Doan situtation so all in all, I think this team has more talent and depth than ever, it's all a matter of putting it together, staying healthy and motivated.

Of course, looming over all this discussion is the dark shadow of the Bettman Lockout which makes any discussion in this or for that matter any other topic seem irrelevant, which totally pisses me off.

Edited by Peter Gunn, 29 August 2012 - 04:03 AM.

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#21 King of the ES

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 03:58 AM

I don't.

Garrison is another unproven Florida player who probably wont work out like booth. His contract is huge and there is a possibility he could just flop.

We still have both Luongo and Schneider here and we cannot win with that much value (Not even contract numbers, if you transferred the value of each player to another position we'd be in so much better shape. Players don't appear out of thin air, you have to give up value in one position to gain it somewhere else) wasted on a position where only one of them can make a difference in a game. Don't use the "insurance" argument because we all know that's bunk, we have to offload one of them and get stronger up front.

And talking about up front, our bottom 6 hasn't had much work done to it and it needs it. Out top 6 is the exact same as last season where scoring goals was an issue all season long. It's not a slump, our offense is lack luster.

Also, our defense still doesn't have that anchor. No one really leads the defense. Sure, Hamhius is great but he's not a cup winning #1 defenseman.

I don't see how we go from losing in 5 games in the first round to cup contenders if this is the team we go into the playoffs with.


Very good post overall, I totally agree. I've got no clue how/why people are so excited about Garrison, maybe it's because he's a local product, maybe it's because he's younger and fresher than Sami Salo, I don't know. Give me Salo with a 2-year deal over Garrison with a 6-year deal for this team, today, quite easily. That's a signing which was very risky and will quite likely flop, as you've suggested. David Booth has largely been a flop, and he'll (IMO) just get worse and worse. Keith Ballard is pretty self-explanatory. Mike Gillis always talks about how difficult it is for a player to make the transition to a place like Vancouver, from a place like Miami; OK, Mike, if that's the case, then why do you keep acquiring these players?

This team has a lot of holes, as it stands now, and waiting around for Shane Doan to sign here, something that he clearly doesn't want to do, is a very weak strategy.
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#22 Canuckian93

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 04:26 AM

God no our 2nd line still isn't good unless we get Shane doan or somebody else. We need a 3rd line centre and no i dont think Schroeder is capable yet of playing their the whole season and I just don't think Arnott is the answer, so unless we address those areas we haven't improved enough to challenge for the cup.
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#23 DaMacNamedDre

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 05:59 AM

we need power forward
another BIG good Defensman
an enforcer
3rd line centre that can play second

3-4 pieces away from having a team playoff built
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Posted ImageBodee, on 18 April 2012 - 11:07 AM, said:

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http://forum.canucks.com/topic/328055-whats-wrong-with-me
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#24 riffraff

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 06:23 AM

in a word. No.
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CanucksSayEh, on 12 March 2013 - 10:12 PM, said:
When the playoffs come around, nobody is scared of getting in a fight, but every night, they get their mom to check under the bed for Raffi Torres.

#25 rawkdrummer

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 06:58 AM

Garrison will be a flop like Booth?
I stopped reading at that point.

The OP needs to find a new pastime that makes him happy.
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#26 CowtownCanuck

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 07:12 AM

Definately need a few more pieces to the puzzle
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#27 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 07:18 AM

Nope. Our problem since the SCF loss has been lack of scoring in the playoffs and Idk how much we spend on D or acquire new faces on the blueline, but it will not make up for our lack of offense. Our 2nd line is just brutal in the playoffs, compared to teams that have won, and we need illegitimate 2nd line scoring to help - we literally have 1 true 2nd liner, Kesler....rest are more like 3rd liners and for Booth, he hasn't found his touch here. We also need depth cause injuries always hit us in the bum during post-season and lastly, we need a coach who can take his head out of his arsenal and play all 4 lines when in the post-season. [Edit]: Add to that, we still have 2 star goalies on the same team who are getting at least $4 million...only 1 can play, the other is on the bench and it is useless really, and we need either 1 to go, get a good return, and bulk up where we need help / a true scorer, and with our goalies, we can probably land a 1st liner if we trade one. Also, add that there's no use of Ballard if AV makes him sit in the press box and that his cap can be spent more wisely if that will be his fate, but, this is a new season, Salo and Rome are gone, so it seems Ballard will finely be a regular - fit that into coaching/AV problems.

...Honest opinion, not saying I'm right, but what I feel.


I do, buy yes not enough yet. But we have the assets to accomplish it.

FTR our problem is not goal scoring, even goal scoring in the playoff's. It's already been pointed out we were 5th in scoring last year, and humbled scoring in the play off's. The problem; physical mis-matches were exercised and taken advantage of. Thats why our goal scoring was / is shut down (Twins / Burr = 185 lb average which is vulnerable). Same against Boston and Chicago 2 years ago.

Even if you believe Salo was better than Garrison; it's why Garrison is an upgrade. Same for Kassian vs Hodgson.

We do still need a trade and a signing minimum. But as above we do have assets. Its not a panic either!

I don't.

Garrison is another unproven Florida player who probably wont work out like booth. His contract is huge and there is a possibility he could just flop.

We still have both Luongo and Schneider here and we cannot win with that much value (Not even contract numbers, if you transferred the value of each player to another position we'd be in so much better shape. Players don't appear out of thin air, you have to give up value in one position to gain it somewhere else) wasted on a position where only one of them can make a difference in a game. Don't use the "insurance" argument because we all know that's bunk, we have to offload one of them and get stronger up front.

And talking about up front, our bottom 6 hasn't had much work done to it and it needs it. Out top 6 is the exact same as last season where scoring goals was an issue all season long. It's not a slump, our offense is lack luster.

Also, our defense still doesn't have that anchor. No one really leads the defense. Sure, Hamhius is great but he's not a cup winning #1 defenseman.

I don't see how we go from losing in 5 games in the first round to cup contenders if this is the team we go into the playoffs with.


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#28 Ghostsof1915

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 07:25 AM

You know it's not even September yet right? You know we have a deadline where we will have a lockout?

Sort of hard for Gillis to move pieces when we're not even sure we're going to have a hockey season.

Doesn't help when players like Doan can't make up his mind about if he want's to sign somewhere else.
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#29 Dogbyte

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 07:26 AM

No, we haven't done enough .. yet.

If we don't improve our top 6 (we currently have 2-3 top 6 players) by getting more top 6 skill we're done. This could mean getting rid of depth that AV can't seem to find playing spots for. All hockey teams need to try to pencil in a top 6, not a top 9 or top 12 that can all play on the first line, Hansen, Higgins, Lapierre, Raymond and sometimes Burrows should not be in the top 6 on a cap team. Ridiculous concept MG, just look at basketball where you only actually need 2 or 3 players to win the Championship. They also have 5 out players that play at one time.

I think Garrison is going to be great in Van. We've been missing defenders that can actually play defence. Look what Hamhuis did for our team. Our best D IMO. It will transfer into a more typical approach to hockey and a more rounded offence.

We also seem to be short a third line center but we'll wait and see what happens. Love to see some of the prospects get a real shot as well.
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#30 Nino

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 08:14 AM

I know, if we don't hurry up and trade luongo for a top-six forward, we'll be dwelling the cellars with edmonton for years!!!!!!!!!!


No Edmonton is bound to get better with all the young talent they have.
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