canuck cole Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 There were only 4 200+ point seasons, TOM. Gretzky was the best offensive player ever to play the game. No argument there. Best player overall? Not even close. Gretzky's defending was always questioned as a player throughout his career. Over his final 9 seasons, he was a -86. I know you think that +/- is a worthless stat, but, being only +514 in 20 seasons while scoring 2857 points is not stellar defensive hockey. Bobby Orr as a defenceman was +597 over only 657 games. 1.4 PPG as a defender put him 5th all-time. He hit. He fought. He played amazing offence and amazing defence (8 straight Norris Trophies). Lastly, HOF at 31. Youngest ever. End debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandmaster Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 Why not?? Because Gretzky was the biggest whiner of all time and no one ever hit him. Bossy is the best of all time. Gretzky never took any punishment to score his goals whereas Bossy's carreer was cut short becuase of all the hits he took in front of the net. Gretzky was a whimp, I was never a fan of his. Bossy was the best sniper/player to ever play. Even after retirement Gretzky is still whining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 1. Orr's career was cut short, thus making his career overrated. Ie. We didn't witness his decline. Cut Gretzky's career in half and his status as best ever would be quite undebatable. 2. Gretzky won more cups than Orr. If Orr was as dominant over the rest of the league, then he should've won more cups. It's not like he had no help at all. 3. Gretzky's dominance over the rest of the league, incl. his own teammates, was unmatched. Like, twice as good at points. Was Orr as dominant? No. 4. Gretzky's longer career and ownership of the recordbook is a huge plus. He also popularized hockey in previously untapped markets. Orr just piled it on in the established east coast. 5. Orr might not even the best defenseman. Yes, he owns +/-, but that's a worthless stat. Some consider Doug Harvey the best ever. Lidstrom is there too. Meanwhile, The Great One is undeniably the best ever. Lemieux perhaps being the most-talented, but not best. Howe. Richard. Also not best ever. Forget about 'it was easy to score in the 80's', too, because it was also easy to score in the 70's. Gretzky just took it to another level. He changed the game so much that goalies had to balloon their equipment, coaches had to devise team-wide defensive strategies to contain one player, and the league as it stands today would be completely different with no Gretzky. Would've gotten by with no Orr. Rushing defenseman? Harvey did that well before Orr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Sikes Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 Doesn't he hold the record for most Short Handed Goals? I know that isn't difinitive proof, but surely it stands for something. Also his defensive play revolved around him keeping the puck away from his own zone and in the offensive zone. I'm pretty sure if Gretzky had his career cut short, he'd be in the same boat as Orr as "youngest ever". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Burrows 14 Posted September 3, 2012 Author Share Posted September 3, 2012 Malkin is on that list....why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Burrows 14 Posted September 3, 2012 Author Share Posted September 3, 2012 Not to mention a Stanley Cup winning goal in overtime. Its a joke how Orr isn't on the NHL 13 Legends list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greene02 Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 When the Oilers had a key faceoff in their own end where was Gretzky? On the bench while Messier or McTavish took the draw, if they won and the Oilers came out of their end, then Gretzky would come out, doesn't that say something about his defensive ability or lack of, Sather wouldn't even trust him to be on the ice in defensive situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOMapleLaughs Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 Gretzky's easily walking away with this one. The silent majority just knows better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goal:thecup Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 When the Oilers had a key faceoff in their own end where was Gretzky? On the bench while Messier or McTavish took the draw, if they won and the Oilers came out of their end, then Gretzky would come out, doesn't that say something about his defensive ability or lack of, Sather wouldn't even trust him to be on the ice in defensive situations. Also someone explain how Orrs stats could be inflated due to a shortened career? Would they have taken Norris trophies or Conn Smythes away if he played longer? The only stat that might have been affected would be ppg which is only behind Gretzky, Lemieux, Bossy and Crosby all forwards, while Orr was a defenseman. He is the only d-man in the top 25 and he ranks ahead of players like Guy Lafleur, Joe Sakic, & Peter Forseberg. Gretzky was a great offensive force, but invisible in his own end and never actually controlled the tempo of a game the way Orr did. I saw both play and Orr was by far the more complete player. When the Bruins had the puck he was like Paul Coffey, but when the other team took possession, he turned into Scott Stevens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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