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*Official* CBA Negotiations and Lockout Thread

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You know, the funny thing about your pro-owner stance is that when actually pressed on what you think the PA should offer, you're clearly on their side as far as what you think is reasonable. I agree; the PA should either allow their share to drop down to 50% as soon as is possible while honouring contracts, or they should give up max contract lengths and time until free agency. Either or is perfectly reasonable (although I suspect the PA will choose a loss of HRR share every time, rather than member rights). But the owners are asking for both. 50/50 plus "make whole" which actually means less than 50% for players and slashed member rights. What you just described is actually more pro-players than the PA's stance has been for months. They are willing to take a pay cut and their only demand is that revenue sharing increase so the teams don't feel the need to screw players over next CBA and so PA members won't lose jobs through teams shutting down. That deal would mean more money to the owners than even you suggested. I think you should read my post above.

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http://www.startribu...s/57299562.html

....

Yesterday just started on bad footing when the league and union were supposed to meet at 10 a.m. The union kept the league waiting until 4 p.m., something the Fehrs have done a handful of times throughout this lockout.

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@Drybone

Fehr has been making that offer for 3 months. When negotiations started with "We'll give you a billion dollars", Fehr was clearly not the unreasonable man the NHL made him out to be. It's received a few minimal tweaks but overall, the deal has changed very little in structure and in regard to numbers.

Moreover, I do know what happens when you try to tell an owner how to run their business. I got fired for it. However since I was the guy bringing in much of the business and had a much stronger long term vision, I started a new firm and quickly took over most of his accounts. He doesn't work in the industry anymore. Good businessmen know when to listen to the suggestions and protests from others. The bad ones think they always know best. They throw a fit, alienate people who ultimately want the business to succeed and eventually file for bankruptcy.

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Interesting.

On the same page he also says,

So, if I understand correctly, that means there were 2 separate meetings that lasted "for much of the day." Being that Fehr's memo to players said, "Today, we met with the NHL off and on over several hours." it would seem the same people, at least on the union's side, were in on both meetings. That should mean that the NHL committee would have absolutely known where the union people were and why they weren't at the second meeting - because they were still at the first, also with the NHL. So, making it sound like Fehr and company were just being jerks who kept the NHL committee waiting for gamesmanship seems disingenuous if not outright dishonest.

That is exactly the kind of PR crap that both sides need to stop trying to pull.

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If the second meeting was scheduled to start at 10 am, then what time was the first meeting suppost to take place or start? I highly doubt these clowns woke up at 5 am for a 6 am meeting broke off at 7 am, went and woke up the players and were talking to then until 4 pm, then decided to meet with the NHL. Maybe it's just me but the timeline just doesn't add up. You are all about sources so let's get a source for the times of these 2 meetings then we can decide if the PA stuck it to the NHL.

What we do know is the NHL and PA did not meet between 10 am and 4 pm. You would think after being 3 hours late for a meeting and that you are unsure when you are going to make that meeting that someone would have called and mentioned to the NHL that things were running late on the PA side. If the PA did not give the NHL any kind of timeline as to when they were actually going to show up and talk then yes Fehr looks like a jerk. I'd say the same thing if the rolls were reversered from the owners.

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“We talked back and forth a little bit, and at one point the question was asked: `If the players would agree to everything that's in your financial proposal, what you're saying is you still won't make an agreement unless the players give up everything in all of the player-contracting rights in your proposal? The answer was, `Yes, because that's what we want,“’ Donald Fehr said. “One wonders if that's really the case. How do you get there from here?
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This pretty much says all you need to know about if there will be hockey this year. This could actually go into next season as well.

End the lockout, begin the strike!

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Hey NHL/players, today is Remembrance Day. Does it put anything in perspective for you ungreatful, greedy fks? Of coruse not, carry on arguing about your extra millions

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Here's a detailed article of the situation as it stands now. It's long, but worth the read.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=409277

They make a good point in the article. That the longer this thing goes on, the more they're hurting the NHL brand, and therefore lowering HRR. So basically, every day they fight, they're fighting over a smaller and smaller amount. But I'm not sure if the NHL even considers that. They seem to think that NHL fans will always come crawling back, and that their brand is bulletproof.

They're in for a big surprise when HRR ends up being much smaller than they predicted. Fans are fed up.

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I'm starting to think they should move these secret private talks to PHX when they decide to get back together again. No one watches hockey when it's on out their, let alone if they even know that there is a work stoppage right now. No one out their is going to know who any of these guys are, that way d-bag Bettmen won't be able to ask, how did you find us?

In any case it's time for both the NHL and PA to realise growth is not going to be 5% or 7% in any of the first few years when a new CBA is set. I don't understand why they think people are not losing jobs in hockey markets and working for less pay with monthly bills increasing. Times are changing for people, not everyone makes a min salary of $425 000 a year.

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NHL, players' union meet for 90 minutes on Sunday:

NEW YORK — NHL owners and players were back at the bargaining table after a one-day break.

The sides met for about 90 minutes Sunday at the NHL office in Manhattan in an effort to end the lockout that is in its 57th day. There are no plans yet to meet again.

Talks took place for four straight days earlier this week before heated discussions ended the run Friday night. The decision to formally meet again came Sunday morning.

A few hours into Friday's session, negotiations soured over the core economic differences that separate the sides and threaten the season completely.

The lockout already has caused the NHL to call off 327 regular-season games, including the New Year's Day Winter Classic. A lockout wiped out the entire 2004-05 season.

http://www.theprovince.com/sports/hockey/canucks-hockey/lockout+Formal+talks+back/7532373/story.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter#axzz2BsXQB1Dc

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Now there's a jersey I wouldn't have trouble deciding who's name I want on it! :lol:

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Theo Fleury: I have no sympathy for owners:

TORONTO -- Former star winger Theo Fleury didn’t hold back when asked about the NHL lockout.

He’s still a player at heart, even though he’s not like today’s player.

"The game has changed," Fleury said Sunday at the HHOF Legends game at Air Canada Centre. "There’s a lot more money on the table. I think the players are a lot more business-orientated than we ever were. I was the guy that always said, 'Drop the puck, let’s play hockey.' But here’s how I see it: I do a lot of events all across Canada and I run into guys like Gordie Howe and Johnny Bower, who are still doing events. And I say, 'Why are you guys here?' They need to be there to make money. So I have no sympathy for the owners because of that. Because those are the icons of the game, the guys that I looked up to and wanted to emulate myself after. I’m fully behind the players and what they’re trying to accomplish."

Gary Roberts, a former teammate of Fleury’s in Calgary, now runs a successful business in the Toronto area as a high-end trainer for NHLers and young prospects. He’s working with 60-goal man Steven Stamkos right now during the lockout.

"I’m involved with current players that I train, they’re not different than us years ago, they want to play," said Roberts. "It’s discouraging for sure for hockey fans. I’m a hockey fan. I want to see hockey being played. Hopefully, they can find a happy medium and all get back to work and move on."

The lockout didn’t damper Sunday’s Legends game where the Air Canada Centre was buzzing to see former stars on the ice.

"It’s a great celebration of our game," said Fleury. "I honestly believe that I played in the greatest era of superstars and great hockey players and great people. So to be asked to be here to be part of it is a great thrill. It’s nice to see people who appreciated the way we played the game."

Lockout irony hits Sundin

An NHL lockout in 1994-95 made Mats Sundin wait six-plus months after his June 1994 trade before finally making his Toronto Maple Leafs debut in January 1995.

That his Hockey Hall of Fame induction weekend is book-ended by another lockout isn’t lost on him in terms of being ironic.

"It is, yes," Sundin said Sunday at Air Canada Centre. "But you know what, you can’t control those things. Everyone wants the season to start, myself included as a hockey fan. But we’re having a good time this weekend anyway. We had the fan forum today. To sit there with guys like Joe Sakic, Pavel Bure and Adam Oates, it’s very humbling. To be recognized with all the great players in the Hall, it’s really tough to take in, actually."

And for Sundin, it’s doubly special, with the home fans here in Toronto here to cheer him on.

"The Toronto Maple Leafs is the team in my heart," said Sundin. "I’m very grateful to have been part of this team. ...

"It’s very special. When I landed at the airport, I had dinner with friends and old teammates. ... Even though we live in Sweden now, every time I come here I feel like I’m coming home."

Sundin was a guarded player during his playing career, rarely showing any emotion. How he handles his speech Monday night will be intriguing.

"It’s going to be very short," he said.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/id/20202/theo-fleury-i-have-no-sympathy-for-owners

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Getting mighty tired of this BS

If they don’t pull this out in the next week to 10 days the players will look like tools. Even now, I’d guess a good many of them--as in all the non stars--are privately regretting bitterly the hiring of Fehr. In time they’ll look back and see it as the day they guaranteed themselves a locked out season.

Owners making, breaking even, and losing money is thought to be about 1/3 per group. Meaning, 2/3 of owners do not suffer at all in a prolonged lockout. Assuming their books are cooked there is still probably around ½ who are not desperate enough for the season to begin.

100% of players will lose money and since the average career is 3 years many will be out of a full third of substantial income; figures they will never again see in their working lives. THEY CAN’T MATCH THE OTHER SIDE’S LEVERAGE.

If they are at a 50-50 split and at least within small change of honoring existing contracts, dragging this thing on is pretty selfish on the part of some dozens of players so affected. Again, when they get older they’ll realize just how silly it was to lose so much; even for the not insubstantial pleasure of telling Gary where to get off.

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