oldnews Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 I'm more speaking of Weiss as opposed to veterans in general. Keep in mind he's pending ufa. Of all the players you just named, I would only take Weiss over kaberle. I rank the rest quite a bit higher than SW. Carter kessel Richards and Nash are all legit 1st liners. I see Weiss as a second liner. I don't think your totally wrong here. On one hand the kings just won a cup after forking out prospects. On the other Toronto is in worse shape with kessel as opposed to Hamilton and Seguin.. I'm not too optimistic we get the kind of returns you've posted, but probably not too far off. That being said, I think King's evaluations over the past few months are a bit rediculous. You disagreed with my prediction on Kadri. That's fine change him out with frattin or whoever you like there. Being a bit of a confident risk taker, I would rather roll the dice on Kadri because his upside is of a first line star. Maybe he gets there, maybe he doesn't but we have nobody in our system with that kind of potential.. You can always pick up guys like Higgins cheap that can do what frattin does. Getting a Kadri that filled out his potential will cost you alot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilya Mikheyev Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 What if the Edler talks over the summer made management raise eyebrows? To Vancouver: Brian Campbell (proven chemistry w/ Garrison), _______, & Michael Leighton To Florida: Luongo and half of Campbell's cap hit (FLA will never be a cap team and $3.6m gets them to the floor easier) To Philly: Edler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 I'm anything but sold on Reilly - or Gardiner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 You sure do dodge questions with the best of 'em. What you've said is that Weiss holds more value than a guy like Couturier or Simmonds because he gets 60 points, which the other two don't/haven't. I'm not comparing Weiss and Higgins at all. I'm trying to point out the errors in your assessments of value. No GM in the league would take Weiss over Couturier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 . So many deals to reference - Kessel, Carter, Kaberle, Richards, Nash, Staal... proven veterans, 60 point players - simply aren't worth less than prospects and rookies... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the ES Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 It was your nonsense analogy King - as usual, you put out a left field paraphrase - 'so you think Higgins is worth more than Jensen' - which is you essentially equating Higgins and Weiss - and then you complain about sidestepping? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 I'm anything but sold on Reilly - or Gardiner. I'd take Couturier over any of them, including Weiss - but I don't see NHL trade values that way. So many deals to reference - Kessel, Carter, Kaberle, Richards, Nash, Staal... proven veterans, 60 point players - simply aren't worth less than prospects and rookies... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Interesting, coming from the guy who's completely sold on Brendan Gaunce. Could it be...a lack of objectivity, perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millerdraft Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 I wouldn't do it, I would rather just signed Edler at Campbell's caphit/salary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Problem is, Edler would never sign a 3-year deal at $3.5m (which is what my proposal stated by Florida taking on half of Campbell's cap hit). What if that name in the blank was Couturier? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 The thing is the circumstances that surround Weiss is what you seem to be forgeting about, it lowers his value. Your crazy, I understand Weiss is a good player but each of those players are better. I would take everyone of them over Weiss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeDreamOfStanley Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Campbell dislikes the canucks more than any other player out there. He would be thrilled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 You're forgetting the circumstances around Kaberle, Carter, Richards - and their contracts. You're also seriously underestimating Weiss if you'd take Kaberle over him. And Kessel - I'd happily leave his extra 30 points over the past 4 seasons on the table in exchange for a player like Weiss who scores at a very similar rate on a team that does not - and is not an absolute liability without the puck, and is a far, far more sensible cap hit. Look at the cap comparables to Weiss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 I change my mind - I'd take Weiss in a Luongo deal if he agrees to re-up terms as part of the deal - and make the space for the guy. I still don't see Tallon being willing to move him - would leave a gaping whole in their top 3 - I think he'll do all he can to re-sign him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thad Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Kadri may be a good gamble but imo not at the price being suggested. He's just too much of a one trick player without the grit or two way game to stick if he's not a highly productive - I don't tend to value those as much as guys who are more versatile - a personal bias perhaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 I never said Kaberle, the part I quoted was around Carter, Richards and Kessel. Carter maybe it would be more of a toss up, but I would still probably take Carter, Richards I wouldn't think twice about, he is only under contract till like 34 or something so it isn't that bad, it's not unmovable. Kessel has scored 30 goals every year on a terrible Toronto team, I know he isn't a great defensive player, but when he played for Boston in 08/09 when they were a good team, he was +23, so on our team I think it would be fine, he would be the trigger man rather than the guy relied on to carry it in and make everything happen, he could score 40-50 goals on our team, and his contract is only 5.4, that's pretty good, I would take that over Weiss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Totally reasonable concerns. I'm weighing in the fact that your game without the puck you can teach, where as slick hands and goal scorers intuition can not. I believe we have a good track record of teaching guys to be effective without the puck, so my bust concerns on Kadri are not as high. I'm 100 percent with gillis when he says its not about loading up for one big run but actually remaining as good of a team for as long as you can to increase your shots at the cup. My biggest concern is in 3 or 4 years when the Sedins slow down or bow out and no high end talent ready to take the wheel. Lots can happen in those years but I think it's something to be conscious of now. My ideal plan would be to try and get a sick package from Philly for edler. Then try and make a package around Lu for gudbranson. Lu and tanev+ for gudbranson Get Philly to over pay for edler. Then turn around and overpay to pry his younger replacement out of Florida. Both deals would be tough to get done but it would keep that window open for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 If Carter is a toss up (or even close) - have a look at what he was traded for last year - Vorachek, 1st/Couturier, and a 3rd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Yeah so? He's a better player than Weiss. Younger and is under contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BananaMash Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 We're not getting Weiss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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