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[Discussion] Roberto Luongo Trade Thread 5.0


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#2971 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 03:23 AM

Ah well, we disagree.

Not that Green is as good as Coffey (he's not, I admit exagerating to make a point); but that type of player would be a major benefit. Much more than having four guys to fill two top pairing left D roles. And a guy who can get 30 goals, 75 plus points or a Norris nomination is not chump change. Wake me up when one of our guys does that.

We were a top shut down team before Garrison arrived (not that he is who I would trade), but we are not the same offence without Erhoff. And Green > Erhoff.

I don't see the stretch behind the logic; but so be it.


I don't think your logic is a stretch at all really. I just don't think we need to go back to the style we played in 2011 to win a cup, especially at the price Green would cost (Would likely ask for Edler 1 for 1)

Oh well, we can just agree to disagree. (And I agree Green > Ehrhoff)
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#2972 Edlerberry

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 04:00 AM

I don't think your logic is a stretch at all really. I just don't think we need to go back to the style we played in 2011 to win a cup, especially at the price Green would cost (Would likely ask for Edler 1 for 1)

Oh well, we can just agree to disagree. (And I agree Green > Ehrhoff)


Green is better defensively than Edler.

Luongo + Ballard +2nd for Green + Neuvirth
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July 7-2013

Toronto will take a step back next year.
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July 8-2013

Wow I can't believe peoples replies...
Im done here. You people are disgusting..


#2973 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 05:02 AM

Certainly Edler playing on the right side... ;)

Green is better defensively than Edler.

Luongo + Ballard +2nd for Green + Neuvirth


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#2974 TmanVan

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 08:35 AM

Since when is Jaden Shwartz a marquee name.

Another example of a nucks fan that is undervaluing our players, and overvaluing other team's players


What the hell are you talking about? That has nothing to do with the Canucks. I said St. Louis could "survive" without Berglund, where is the undervaluing the Canucks in that statement? Plus if you actually read my post I named about 8 or 9 other players ahead of him on St. Louis depth chart, only you said he is a marquee player.


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#2975 Lui's Knob

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 09:34 AM

Lp
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#2976 Boudrias

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 11:30 AM

Ah well, we disagree.

Not that Green is as good as Coffey (he's not, I admit exagerating to make a point); but that type of player would be a major benefit. Much more than having four guys to fill two top pairing left D roles. And a guy who can get 30 goals, 75 plus points or a Norris nomination is not chump change. Wake me up when one of our guys does that.

We were a top shut down team before Garrison arrived (not that he is who I would trade), but we are not the same offence without Erhoff. And Green > Erhoff.

I don't see the stretch behind the logic; but so be it.

You and Smashian have put up excellent points!

Putting playoff hopes on Edler is a gamble as he has not shown consistancy as yet. Going after Green would be an option with a possible hugh upside. I agree with your conclusions on the left side overload.

Van's two biggest trading chips are IMO Lou and Ballard. The need is a Right side Dman, a 2RW and depending on what comes back from the first two deals a possible 3C. All the above have to have a physicality component. Not to much to ask.:(
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#2977 D-Money

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 12:15 PM

Mike Green isn't a playoff player.

We don't need to replace that puck moving loss of Ehrhoff. In a sense I think Garrison (If he can play to his capabilities, and he has been getting better) Might be a greater benefit than Ehrhoff.


Christian Ehrhoff isn't a playoff player either. His defensive liabilities are more exposed, and teams are able to shut him down with a better system. Outside of two games where he benefited from Kesler's heroics in Nashville for 5 points, he was rarely effective offensively.

It's hard to tell how Garrison will be, as he was playing injured in his first playoff series, and missed a few games...but 3 points in 4 games is a pretty darn good start.
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#2978 D-Money

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 12:21 PM

You and Smashian have put up excellent points!

Putting playoff hopes on Edler is a gamble as he has not shown consistancy as yet. Going after Green would be an option with a possible hugh upside. I agree with your conclusions on the left side overload.

Van's two biggest trading chips are IMO Lou and Ballard. The need is a Right side Dman, a 2RW and depending on what comes back from the first two deals a possible 3C. All the above have to have a physicality component. Not to much to ask. :(


How about Luongo for Green, and then Edler for Voracek and Talbot?

Then try to move one of our excess wingers (Booth, Raymond, Higgins, Weise) for a young D-man who can play on Chicago until needed (we need one of those too).
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#2979 theminister

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 12:38 PM

Or we could do nothing and wait until Garrison is finally moved over to the right side of Edler.

I know it seems like we could be dissatisfied with our D corps right now but most teams would love to have our problems. Sure, if Ballard could be moved for a puck rushing RH d-man then I'd be all for it but that opportunity may not materialize.

What I'd like the team to consider would be demoting one of Barker or Alberts and picking up Brule to spell Weise as a 4th line RW. What he gives up in muscle he adds in centre ice versatility and skill.
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#2980 elvis15

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 12:41 PM

Christian Ehrhoff isn't a playoff player either. His defensive liabilities are more exposed, and teams are able to shut him down with a better system. Outside of two games where he benefited from Kesler's heroics in Nashville for 5 points, he was rarely effective offensively.

It's hard to tell how Garrison will be, as he was playing injured in his first playoff series, and missed a few games...but 3 points in 4 games is a pretty darn good start.

Yup, Garrison has the physical ability to be an impact player in the playoffs. The minute you forget about him offensively as well, he'll jump in and put a shot through to score. He's going to really show his worth against top players defensively and contributing points on occasion as well.

Or we could do nothing and wait until Garrison is finally moved over to the right side of Edler.

I know it seems like we could be dissatisfied with our D corps right now but most teams would love to have our problems. Sure, if Ballard could be moved for a puck rushing RH d-man then I'd be all for it but that opportunity may not materialize.

What I'd like the team to consider would be demoting one of Barker or Alberts and picking up Brule to spell Weise as a 4th line RW. What he gives up in muscle he adds in centre ice versatility and skill.

Essentially this. It's one of those things that'd be great to have, and we know we'll be forced into some moves come summertime, but anything we look at right now is either tweaking our roster or adding pieces for the future.

I'm not as sold on the Brule idea though. If he was more capable than who we already have, he would have been picked up by a lesser team probably already. If we run into injury problems (knock on wood) I could see us having to look for more depth, but if we're already pushing down more talented players like Higgins, Hansen, Kassian, etc. to our 4th line as we get fully healthy then I wouldn't want to lose what toughness we do have.

Edited by elvis15, 19 February 2013 - 12:45 PM.

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#2981 theminister

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 01:03 PM

I'm not as sold on the Brule idea though. If he was more capable than who we already have, he would have been picked up by a lesser team probably already. If we run into injury problems (knock on wood) I could see us having to look for more depth, but if we're already pushing down more talented players like Higgins, Hansen, Kassian, etc. to our 4th line as we get fully healthy then I wouldn't want to lose what toughness we do have.


Fair enough but, at some point, the Nucks are going to need to add a player that can be trusted in the middle in case we have injuries in the playoffs. Burrows is a less than ideal option and the coaches seem to have no faith in Higgins there.

If someone is coming out of the line-up it will be Volpatti or Weise. I'm fine with that. IMHO, this is a better playoff line-up than we currently are icing.

Sedins-Burr
Booth-Kes-Kassian
Raymond-Schroeder-Hansen
Higgins-Lappy-Brule
Volpatti/Weise

With the option of sitting Schroeder on a match-up and Lappy going into the 3rd line and Brule shuffling over. Again, it's just about having options, which we don't have with either Weise or Volpatti.

Edited by theminister, 19 February 2013 - 01:04 PM.

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#2982 oldnews

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 01:20 PM

Weise and a 4th for Goc. :bigblush:

With Weiss, Huberdeau, Matthias, Shore, Mueller, and Howden, something's gotta give (and Bjugstad's coming...)

Give us Goc DTMG. You do stuff like this on a regular basis. Capdump. You'll like Weise's speed, grit and salary...

Edited by oldnews, 19 February 2013 - 01:30 PM.

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#2983 oldnews

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 01:33 PM

Or if we're so deadset on moving Edler for a R side guy, how about:

Winnipeg - Luo, Weise (the Jets could use a depth RW).
Van - Bogosian, Frattin
Toronto - Pavelec (inb4 the Laffs don't need a goaltender haha).

Edler for Couturier + (personally there's no way I give Philly Edler unless Courturier is coming this way).

Edit: sorry, forget it - forgot about Enstrom's injury...the Peg may need Luo but would need a blueliner back...

Edited by oldnews, 19 February 2013 - 01:40 PM.

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#2984 theminister

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 01:38 PM

Or if we're so deadset on moving Edler for a R side guy, how about:

Winnipeg - Luo, Weise (the Jets could use a depth RW).
Van - Bogosian, Frattin
Toronto - Pavelec (inb4 the Laffs don't need a goaltender haha).

Edler for Couturier + (personally there's no way I give Philly Edler unless Courturier is coming this way).


Sooooo?????

Sedins-Burr
Booth-Kes-Kass
Raymond-Couturier-Hansen
Higgins-Lappy-Frattin
Schroeder

Hamhius-Bieksa-
Garrison-Bogosian
Ballard-Tanev

Edit: Actually, you've got me thinking. I think TO would need to toss in more than Frattin to Winnipeg and I'm guessing the Laffs want a more experienced G.

Edited by theminister, 19 February 2013 - 01:41 PM.

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#2985 oldnews

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 01:43 PM

Liles or Franson...?
The Laffs will take what they're given :excl: and be grateful.

Edited by oldnews, 19 February 2013 - 01:44 PM.

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#2986 oldnews

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 01:46 PM

Did anyone else hear Dutchyshen's multiple references to Scrivezina yesterday :lol: ?
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#2987 theminister

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 01:52 PM

The Laffs FANS will take what they're given :excl: and be grateful.


Edited for accuracy.
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#2988 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 05:28 PM

Christian Ehrhoff isn't a playoff player either. His defensive liabilities are more exposed, and teams are able to shut him down with a better system. Outside of two games where he benefited from Kesler's heroics in Nashville for 5 points, he was rarely effective offensively.

It's hard to tell how Garrison will be, as he was playing injured in his first playoff series, and missed a few games...but 3 points in 4 games is a pretty darn good start.


I agree.

I actually like what we have in Garrison, I agree with what Elvis said. His size, shot and physicality allows him to be an impact playoff player.
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#2989 BertuzziJr 2.0

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 06:16 PM

I agree.

I actually like what we have in Garrison, I agree with what Elvis said. His size, shot and physicality allows him to be an impact playoff player.


I agree, it took Hamhuis like 25-30 games to hit his stride his first year in Vancouver right? Why do people so quickly throw him under the bus? I bet once he's back on the power play and has a chance to unload the cannon you'll start seeing results
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#2990 Teemu Selšnne

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 06:18 PM

Forget losing Edler.

You don't trade away your best defenseman.

I'd rather see Ballard or even newcomer Garrison gone before Edler to make room for a right sider.
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#2991 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 10:01 PM

Its not that I am disappointed with having Edler on our left side. (although he is playing a lot on the right)

I do think that having Bieksa as our only natural Top4 capable right side D and shot is dangerous. I don't even disagree that having one of Edler /Garrison/Hamhuis cover the right side is a nice luxury. But I would feel better if we actually had a right side guy!

And watch the game again tonight; where was the break out and flow up ice we had two years ago?

That happens when a defender bursts up ice ahead of his checker and a guy who is supposed to be clogging the middle has to divert to cut him off. Then we have wingers breaking up ice open cuz their man left them.

Leddy did it tonight, Kieth a couple times, Bieksa once (although he got lost once he arrived in the offensive end LOL). How many two on 1's and 3 on 2's did Chicago have?

The net result is we're being turned back or playing the whole game waiting in the neutral zone.

AND we're not scoring enough goals.

So what we really need is a puck moving defender; and because the opening happens to be on the right side???





You and Smashian have put up excellent points!

Putting playoff hopes on Edler is a gamble as he has not shown consistancy as yet. Going after Green would be an option with a possible hugh upside. I agree with your conclusions on the left side overload.

Van's two biggest trading chips are IMO Lou and Ballard. The need is a Right side Dman, a 2RW and depending on what comes back from the first two deals a possible 3C. All the above have to have a physicality component. Not to much to ask. :(


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#2992 sampy

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 10:21 PM

I'm bored:

To NYI:
Lu
Ballard
Shroeder
Climie
Connaughton
1st

To VAN:
Tavares
Visnovsky
Dipietro
Nabokov

Canucks give up a lot of value and Aquilini agrees to buy out Dipietro's remaining $36 million. Essentially buying the trade.
NYI sells Tavares for a lot of money and gets a lot of value as well. The other NYI players are UFA's at th end of the season and both tried to get out of NYI.
NYI is moving to Brooklyn with the Nets and are turning it around. It could interest Lu.

Edited by sampy, 19 February 2013 - 10:22 PM.

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#2993 sampy

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 11:31 PM

At Teemu,

Dipietro would be a amnesty buyout so no caphit.
Canucks would be buying Tavares for almost $40 mil while also giving some good player. Similar to the Gretzky trade. It's all about the $$$. Vis and Nabokov are just thrown ins for depth.

Edited by sampy, 19 February 2013 - 11:32 PM.

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#2994 GLASSJAW

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 01:07 AM

last
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#2995 canuckfan85

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 03:27 AM

I agree.

I actually like what we have in Garrison, I agree with what Elvis said. His size, shot and physicality allows him to be an impact playoff player.


his poor defensive play has a negative impact on us- see Hossa's 2nd goal. He was standing still watching. Unforgiveable.
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#2996 canuckfan85

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 03:27 AM

We need to move elder before his NTC kicks in, he looks just awful defensively. Hamhuis looked so slow against the hawks...groin injury??
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#2997 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 03:37 AM

his poor defensive play has a negative impact on us- see Hossa's 2nd goal. He was standing still watching. Unforgiveable.


And Bieksa was running around, Garrison was covering his man infront of the net, Bieksa was caught chasing the play.
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#2998 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 08:14 AM

his poor defensive play has a negative impact on us- see Hossa's 2nd goal. He was standing still watching. Unforgiveable.

I disagree. As Smashian pointed out, Garrison had his man tied up in front of the net. If he lets him go to chase Hossa, he's leaving a man wide open just outside the crease. That's a far more dangerous player than one who's behind your goal line.

Personally, although Bieksa and the Canucks' forward on that side deserve some of the blame for allowing Hoss to walk out of the corner with the puck, I think Schneider misplayed that goal. He has to get his stick out and prevent the opposing player from an easy post to post right in front of him.

Schneids had a good game, but I bet he'd play that one differently, if he had a do-over...
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#2999 Raffi Torres's Smirk

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 09:22 AM

Edler cannot be traded if we want any chance of signing any decent free agents. It doesn't look good to resign a player long term and then trade him away.
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#3000 Pears

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 09:26 AM

We need to move elder before his NTC kicks in, he looks just awful defensively. Hamhuis looked so slow against the hawks...groin injury??

:picard:
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

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