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Do you think there's a coaching problem?


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Poll: Where do we draw the line? (116 member(s) have cast votes)

Where is YOUR breaking point with AV? When do we fire him?

  1. Never (for the forseable future) (15 votes [12.93%])

    Percentage of vote: 12.93%

  2. Early Playoff Exit (13 votes [11.21%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.21%

  3. Play-off manhandling (we've all seen it) (6 votes [5.17%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.17%

  4. No Cup, No AV (4 votes [3.45%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.45%

  5. Voted Miss the Playoffs (29 votes [25.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 25.00%

  6. Below .500 Half way through the season (6 votes [5.17%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.17%

  7. Below .500 15-ish games through the season (8 votes [6.90%])

    Percentage of vote: 6.90%

  8. Now (8 votes [6.90%])

    Percentage of vote: 6.90%

  9. A long time ago (27 votes [23.28%])

    Percentage of vote: 23.28%

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#91 Ghostsof1915

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 08:28 AM

My problem is the the Jekyll and Hyde side of this team. One minute they are playing like world beaters. Next minute they look confused, lost, and look like the Leafs could crush them.

Players can only hear the same things for so long before they start to tune it out. I can't stand hearing crap like "It's part of the process.." What process? The .500 process?

A coaches job is to prepare the team. It's one thing to get outplayed, I can live with that. AV seems to be one of those guys that he has a plan, and no matter what happens he sticks to it. He might juggle the lines, but the strategy stays.
But our strategy is predictable, and we haven't found one lately that suits our players.

Honestly, the Canucks blew it this offseason. Larry Robinson's contract ran out at the end of last season. He's the perfect replacement. He's coached a Stanley Cup winner. He knows defence. And he knows how to break down other team's defences.
He also seems to get the most mileage out of his players. Instead of firing AV in the offseason, we're now stuck with AV.
San Jose has hired him as an assistant. I don't think it's a surprise that now the Sharks have one of the best goals against in the league. Because he will have that defence working as a unit. Maybe he was the spark of confidence or he cracks the whip that's getting Marleau and Thornton to give the best start they've had in years, perhaps of their whole careers.

The real question is if you let AV go, who do you replace him with?
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#92 Shift-4

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 08:55 AM

The only coaching decision I have an issue with is putting Edler in the shootout.
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#93 jono2009

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 10:16 AM

Hard to blame AV.....yet

Season still early
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#94 Vansicle

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 10:59 AM

Most of our team hasn't playing for 9 months. It'll take some time to get used to it again.

Excuses. Gotta love 'em.
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Snake Doctor, on 23 May 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:snapback.png

Miller is not on our list. It's Lack as our #1. There is no reason we would have traded both Schnieder and Luongo if we never intended to give Lack the #1 starting job.  Furthermore, the salary and term Miller is looking for is not in our favor.

 


#95 Vansicle

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 11:04 AM

My problem is the the Jekyll and Hyde side of this team. One minute they are playing like world beaters. Next minute they look confused, lost, and look like the Leafs could crush them.

Players can only hear the same things for so long before they start to tune it out. I can't stand hearing crap like "It's part of the process.." What process? The .500 process?

A coaches job is to prepare the team. It's one thing to get outplayed, I can live with that. AV seems to be one of those guys that he has a plan, and no matter what happens he sticks to it. He might juggle the lines, but the strategy stays.
But our strategy is predictable, and we haven't found one lately that suits our players.

Honestly, the Canucks blew it this offseason. Larry Robinson's contract ran out at the end of last season. He's the perfect replacement. He's coached a Stanley Cup winner. He knows defence. And he knows how to break down other team's defences.
He also seems to get the most mileage out of his players. Instead of firing AV in the offseason, we're now stuck with AV.
San Jose has hired him as an assistant. I don't think it's a surprise that now the Sharks have one of the best goals against in the league. Because he will have that defence working as a unit. Maybe he was the spark of confidence or he cracks the whip that's getting Marleau and Thornton to give the best start they've had in years, perhaps of their whole careers.

The real question is if you let AV go, who do you replace him with?

This. ^
The only reason you don't shirtcan AV is there is no better alternative at present.
Furthermore, I believe MG prematurely extended AV in much the same way he extended Lou. Is there a pattern? I don't know, but it is curious.
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Snake Doctor, on 23 May 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:snapback.png

Miller is not on our list. It's Lack as our #1. There is no reason we would have traded both Schnieder and Luongo if we never intended to give Lack the #1 starting job.  Furthermore, the salary and term Miller is looking for is not in our favor.

 


#96 "Bull" Horvat

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 11:11 AM

This. ^
The only reason you don't shirtcan AV is there is no better alternative at present.
Furthermore, I believe MG prematurely extended AV in much the same way he extended Lou. Is there a pattern? I don't know, but it is curious.


Gillis had to sell very hard to the owners in order to keep AV here
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#97 mbal23

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 11:33 AM

Only a few coaches have been able to win a cup after 6+years with a team and AV isn't in going to be in that elite group...so it's best to say goodbye
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#98 Hunter.S-Kerouac

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 11:56 AM

Ha Ha AV is not getting fired there is alot more going on internally than just the Game. Gillis and AV are playing chess. You are playing checkers or nhl 13.

AV backed the team off in the 3rd period because he recognised the King's were destroying us Physically in most of the first and all of the second period. He didn't want the team to blow their wad early like they did against Boston last season. Who cares if we win this game if were so banged up from it, it takes weeks to recover Canucks already have enough injury problems. AV needs to protect his players and just try to make .500 for the next few weeks. It will all make sense when Kes and Booth come back to a team that is jelling and healthy.
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#99 MikeyD

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 11:59 AM

Ha Ha AV is not getting fired there is alot more going on internally than just the Game. Gillis and AV are playing chess. You are playing checkers or nhl 13.

AV backed the team off in the 3rd period because he recognised the King's were destroying us Physically in most of the first and all of the second period. He didn't want the team to blow their wad early like they did against Boston last season. Who cares if we win this game if were so banged up from it, it takes weeks to recover Canucks already have enough injury problems. AV needs to protect his players and just try to make .500 for the next few weeks. It will all make sense when Kes and Booth come back to a team that is jelling and healthy.


You don't get destroyed playing perimeter hockey.
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#100 DIBdaQUIB

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 11:59 AM

My problem is the the Jekyll and Hyde side of this team. One minute they are playing like world beaters. Next minute they look confused, lost, and look like the Leafs could crush them.

Players can only hear the same things for so long before they start to tune it out. I can't stand hearing crap like "It's part of the process.." What process? The .500 process?

A coaches job is to prepare the team. It's one thing to get outplayed, I can live with that. AV seems to be one of those guys that he has a plan, and no matter what happens he sticks to it. He might juggle the lines, but the strategy stays.
But our strategy is predictable, and we haven't found one lately that suits our players.

Honestly, the Canucks blew it this offseason. Larry Robinson's contract ran out at the end of last season. He's the perfect replacement. He's coached a Stanley Cup winner. He knows defence. And he knows how to break down other team's defences.
He also seems to get the most mileage out of his players. Instead of firing AV in the offseason, we're now stuck with AV.
San Jose has hired him as an assistant. I don't think it's a surprise that now the Sharks have one of the best goals against in the league. Because he will have that defence working as a unit. Maybe he was the spark of confidence or he cracks the whip that's getting Marleau and Thornton to give the best start they've had in years, perhaps of their whole careers.

The real question is if you let AV go, who do you replace him with?


This^^^

This team has been recognized as having one of the best line-ups each of the last 3 years. They supposedly have the talent, balance and goaltending to be favorites yet they are also seen as one of the softest teams to play against. Aside from the lack of big physical guys, the softness is directed at their mental fragility and the numerous break-downs and mental lapses they have. Those things are coach related.

If the hockey world is right and they have more skill, talent and balance than almost every team, their failure to execute must be coaching. If it isn't, then the core of this team needs to go because they simply are not achieving at a level that matches what they are on paper.
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#101 Hunter.S-Kerouac

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:11 PM

I have a feeling this whole period is more of an experiment to get a better look at their team as a whole than winning and loosing games. I do hope they give up on the Edler on the right experiment for a while. AV should move Tanev up to play with Edler. I have always thought Ballard Garri would be a good combo.
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#102 cc_devil

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:13 PM

What coaching? Its the same thing from AV for 6+ years
No timeouts
No motivatation( as he leaves it to the team leaders)
Dump the puck and defend the lead.

Fire Av and coaching staff and go without it could probally work out better.
Could have a player coach. According to Av their doing all the talking anyways. Besides its not like AV or his team inspires; let alone coach.

Edited by cc_devil, 29 January 2013 - 12:17 PM.

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#103 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:18 PM

Yeah, well this should not be coming up after the boys played a great game, and lost a heart breaker. We should be cheering for everyone tonight.

In reality they made a lot of adjustments and came out strong in comparison to not playing great in San Jose. That game started and finished in the first minute at the face off circle. Lack of having the right personnel was an issue, as we won only 32% of face off's in that game and constantly fought up hill in size match up problems without the puck. Plus, in that game, you had clunkers where Edler coughs up the puck for the 2knd goal. But even then we saw the coach rewarding Ballard and Tanev with TOI which should send Edler a message the turnover is not ok.

I'm happy the hoards are not after Lou, because he let in a goal with 40 seonds left. It was not a softie, it was a double screen seeing eye goal..

Losing in a shootout against the Stanley Cup champs when the team put up a great effort is the wrong time to be calling for the coaches head. Calling for the coaches head when they almost steal a win after having their personnel shortcomings pointed out so strongly by San Jose is when we should be asking if the GM is going to go get the team some help; predominantly at centre ice, but perhaps also in size match ups and at right D!



This is where you absolutely lost me. :picard:

Have you even watched the games??????

Our powerplay has been given gift rapped opportunities to win games!!! With Red Wrapping Paper and A yellow Bow!! And they have failed miserably.

This team continues to come out FLAT!

Continues to blow 2-0 leads!

Continues to give up crucial points!

Continues to play the players that aren't playing well!!! (Case and point OT, Sedins were bad 5 on 5 while our 2 best forwards Schroeder and Kassian didn't get a SECOND of ice time.)


This team is going NOWHERE in the playoffs with Alain Vigneault behind the bench (And no I'm not jumping on this bandwagon now, it has been my opinion for a long time AV has to go)

Without goaltending this team is dead last in the Western confrence

/ Rant


Edited by Canuck Surfer, 29 January 2013 - 12:20 PM.

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#104 Erik Karlsson

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:18 PM

My problem is the the Jekyll and Hyde side of this team. One minute they are playing like world beaters. Next minute they look confused, lost, and look like the Leafs could crush them.

Players can only hear the same things for so long before they start to tune it out. I can't stand hearing crap like "It's part of the process.." What process? The .500 process?

A coaches job is to prepare the team. It's one thing to get outplayed, I can live with that. AV seems to be one of those guys that he has a plan, and no matter what happens he sticks to it. He might juggle the lines, but the strategy stays.
But our strategy is predictable, and we haven't found one lately that suits our players.

Honestly, the Canucks blew it this offseason. Larry Robinson's contract ran out at the end of last season. He's the perfect replacement. He's coached a Stanley Cup winner. He knows defence. And he knows how to break down other team's defences.
He also seems to get the most mileage out of his players. Instead of firing AV in the offseason, we're now stuck with AV.
San Jose has hired him as an assistant. I don't think it's a surprise that now the Sharks have one of the best goals against in the league. Because he will have that defence working as a unit. Maybe he was the spark of confidence or he cracks the whip that's getting Marleau and Thornton to give the best start they've had in years, perhaps of their whole careers.

The real question is if you let AV go, who do you replace him with?


This.

and it really bugs me he puts Edler in the shootout instead of Schroeder or somebody, wtf.

Edited by TheGame., 29 January 2013 - 12:19 PM.

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#105 apollo

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:22 PM

Its tough to not blame av... he's done so much good for us though. I never like to blame the coach as I'm not in the locker room.

If anything I think Gillis should get the can before av. Doubt that'll happen though. I think av can get the boys going in the right direction soon enough.
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#106 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:29 PM

I will say this regarding coaching. I'd like to see Edler play with Tanev!

I am surprised we experimented with switching Edler to the right side, he's proven to be poor on his off side. But Edler plays in mostly offensive situations, where any size issues that Tanev has are not something teams can exploit so much. And Tanev is great positionally and passes extremely well which will let Edler, and the other offensive players, do their thing. It would bring Tanev along on the offensive side of the game and let all play to their strengths!
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#107 ajhockey

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:31 PM

I feel like I'm part of a minority, but I still like AV. He does tend to be persistent with playing certain players which can be a tad annoying, but overall, I like him.

That said, if we miss the playoffs, he's gotta go. That would be just plain unacceptable.
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#108 Erik Karlsson

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:32 PM

I think Schroeder needs a bit more ice time. He's solid defensively and he seems to always create chances when he has the puck on his stick in the offensive zone. He has to be faster then Raymond.
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#109 Saskatchewan Canucks Fan

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:36 PM

Ha Ha AV is not getting fired there is alot more going on internally than just the Game. Gillis and AV are playing chess. You are playing checkers or nhl 13.

AV backed the team off in the 3rd period because he recognised the King's were destroying us Physically in most of the first and all of the second period. He didn't want the team to blow their wad early like they did against Boston last season. Who cares if we win this game if were so banged up from it, it takes weeks to recover Canucks already have enough injury problems. AV needs to protect his players and just try to make .500 for the next few weeks. It will all make sense when Kes and Booth come back to a team that is jelling and healthy.

I disagree with this approach. I feel that this is the time of the year when you should make a statement that the Canucks will not back off. Being concienscious about injuries is one thing.. but it also tells the 29 other teams in the league that we are intimated by physicality. This gives an inncentive for other teams to play gritty hockey against us and can lead to more injuries over the course of the season. We need to establish to the other teams that we are a tightly knit group that will have each others back. I understand that we have injury problems at the moment but playing tentative hockey is NOT the answer. The team needs to give themselves the best chance to win in every game during a shortened season.
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#110 snolan

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:43 PM

Only a few coaches have been able to win a cup after 6+years with a team and AV isn't in going to be in that elite group...so it's best to say goodbye


That's a good way of putting it. He has had amazing teams to work with and they always seem to come out flat. Even if it is the players fault - he is not motivating them. You need someone who is. Sometimes a firing doesn't mean the coach is bad but it means they aren't working out in their situation, people seem to ignore that here.
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#111 Bertuzzipunch

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:46 PM

I dont have a problem with AV at all except his choice in the shootouts, I do think our PP coach is due for a slap across the face a few times.

Hope kesler and Booth are back soon.
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#112 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:49 PM

Gillis had to sell very hard to the owners in order to keep AV here


I say we have line up problems, not line juggling ones. But lets say we should be replacing the coach?

Well his contract was up at the end of THIS year, not last. It might not have been a bad thing to let the coach prove his mettle! But the GM has extended the coach; so if we have match up problems juggling lines should not be the question. The responsibility has to be with the GM.

As much as the pundits say we're perfectly balanced, we were being handed our lunch in physical battles. We're losing face off's when everyone knows we need a centre. We have only one right handed shot of consequence on D. Honey Badger made this post which suggests just patching till the injured come back, but I think we should just have the GM resolve actual line up shortcomings;

"AV backed the team off in the 3rd period because he recognised the King's were destroying us Physically in most of the first and all of the second period. He didn't want the team to blow their wad early like they did against Boston last season. Who cares if we win this game if were so banged up from it, it takes weeks to recover Canucks already have enough injury problems. AV needs to protect his players and just try to make .500 for the next few weeks. It will all make sense when Kes and Booth come back to a team that is jelling and healthy."

The only reason you don't shirtcan AV is there is no better alternative at present.
Furthermore, I believe MG prematurely extended AV in much the same way he extended Lou. Is there a pattern? I don't know, but it is curious.


Edited by Canuck Surfer, 29 January 2013 - 12:56 PM.

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#113 DIBdaQUIB

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:51 PM

The reason I believe AV is the problem is the lack of preparation evidenced by how this team fails to show up for "statement games" and is consistently slow to start.

Somehow, it has become accepted that the Nucks are slow to get going every year. WHY??!! is it the water in Vancouver? The air?

Is it not the coaches job to prepare his team and have them ready to play? How come AV gets a free ride from his supporters for icing a team that year after year fails to show up early and when it counts?

In a shortened season, a slow start is killer.

He has had arguably some of the best talent in the NHLto work with for years and has failed to get the job done while lesser talented teams have moved on and in some cases embarrassed this team.

He's had his chance and the careers of Lu, the Sedins, Bieksa etc are being wasted under his incompetence.
'
If I'm Aquilini, I tell MG, he goes or you both do.
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#114 I Got A Boy

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:51 PM

yep we need better attack skills
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#115 Bodee

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:54 PM

How so? Our team had the best goals for and the best goals against, the best powerplay, and I believe the 2nd best PK. We won the Presedent's Trophy and the Western Conerance by healthy margins, and won our division by a landslide. Many analysts had Van picked as cup favourites and, aside from our hichup against Chicago, we were excellent in the playoffs through the conferance finals. Why is it a miracle that the team made the SCF?


Because we were too small and because of that we got hammered. We entered the finals against Boston at 75% and that is why I say that we did well to reach game 7.

When you are small and lack combined muscle you have to put more into the game to match bigger opponents. The Boston coach saw this and used his teams physique to ware us down.
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#116 Bodee

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:56 PM

ya.and in the Boston series I thought the team was.lights out in our home games excluding game 7.


Wrong ..............Lu was lights out or the first 2 games would have finished before the end of the 2nd period.............And frankly that is the REAL reason we have had so much success.
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#117 Snake Doctor

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 01:03 PM

Every year the majority of CDC says it's the coach's fault. One game away from a stanley cup. Was it AV's fault then? Short memories here in this world.
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#118 ThaBestPlaceOnEarth

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 01:09 PM

Not only is there not a coaching problem, there is not even a problem.
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#119 Bodee

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 01:12 PM

Tired after 6 games?

After that offseason? Don't talk rubbish.


It's not rubbish.

Why do you think teams have a pre-season? It's not just the number of games it is the timing and the condition both physically and mentally the players are in. That is why so many players went abroad................while we did a bit of recreational skating with the local University.

Well Newsflash........it's not a University team we are playing 4 games in 6 days with traveling in between.

And then we get back to my point on lack of physical presence in our team just now which is bound to be taking it's toll.
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#120 DIBdaQUIB

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    Canucks First-Line

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 01:17 PM

Not only is there not a coaching problem, there is not even a problem.


BS!
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