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Who is the faster skater?


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#31 5minutesinthebox

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 11:41 AM

I know this thread is about Pure Speed but your clips along with your comment "Raymond has it all" bother me so I'll comment.

Notice in all the clips you posted, Mayray never risks putting his body in danger?

If you compare Hansen's first clip where he blows by Phaneuf, he is going full speed with Phaneuf at his hip and still cuts to the front of the net. It takes a lot of courage to do this as if Phaneuf leaned on him or tripped him, Hansen would go full speed into the boards.

I have NEVER seen Mayray do this (show me a clip if I am wrong) and I think that is what bothers me about Raymond. If Mayray was in the same situation as Hansen, I would be willing to bet that he would stop at the half wall EVEN though he had half a step on Phaneuf.

I think it pisses me off that Raymond doesn't utilize the special gift of speed he has as this team could use another offensive weapon. I've seen so many instance where Mayray is flying down the wing with a half step on a defencemen. I feel like something exciting will happen and then.... nothing. He slams on the breaks and circles back. When you have a halfstep on the defence, USE it.


Raymond has def been going to the tougher places on the ice this season. He is using his speed extremely well, whether it be to gain the zone on the rush, relentless forechecking, or creating space on the PP. Raymond doesnt fool himself into thinking he is going to make a power move against a bigger defender. Raymond has been creating tons of chances for himself and his linemates.
On top of that he has been far more selective with his shot. He is 3rd on the team in shots with 17 and 2nd on the team in shot % at 17.6%. Raymond is becoming very a efficient player given his ice time and linemates.

#32 CanucksJay

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 12:09 PM

Raymond has def been going to the tougher places on the ice this season. He is using his speed extremely well, whether it be to gain the zone on the rush, relentless forechecking, or creating space on the PP. Raymond doesnt fool himself into thinking he is going to make a power move against a bigger defender. Raymond has been creating tons of chances for himself and his linemates.
On top of that he has been far more selective with his shot. He is 3rd on the team in shots with 17 and 2nd on the team in shot % at 17.6%. Raymond is becoming very a efficient player given his ice time and linemates.


Good point. I wont argue with anything you said because its true.
He has made an improvement this year for all the reasons stated above.

Maybe I have to change my expectation of him because as you said, he will never fool himself into making a power move against a bigger defender. I guess the fan in me wants to see Raymond take it to another level. Raymond has a god given talent for speed. The way he uses is right now is simply to back up the defence when he gains the zone but I feel like he could do so much more.

I could drop my expectation of him and finally just come to terms that this is it. He will NEVER use his speed to create a scoring chance despite having the toolbox to do it. He will be a perimeter player that chips in for 10-15 goals and relies on his team mates for success.

But if that's the case, I'd rather find someone else as I dont think that will cut it come playoff time

Edited by CanucksJay, 04 February 2013 - 12:11 PM.


#33 Bodee

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 12:15 PM

"I could drop my expectation of him and finally just come to terms that this is it. He will NEVER use his speed to create a scoring chance"

Schroeder says HI...........and Hi again. I have seen Raymond use his speed twice to give JS scoring chances and he did it often with Kes before his injury.
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#34 Hunter.S-Kerouac

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 12:17 PM

It depends there both really fast. Shifty is stronger and I would argue has the quickest first 3 strides. I'd have to say May Ray in a race goal line to goal line would probably win though IMO.

#35 Jai604

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 12:39 PM

In a North-South straight race Raymond would probably win. Ballard is a better skater overall, and Hansen is also a very good skater and extremely effective with his speed.

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#36 GarthButcher5

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 12:49 PM

If you were to race Schroeder and Raymond in a best out of 7, Schroeder would win 4-3. Raymond would easily win 4-0 but he would fall down at least 4 times out of 7 giving Schroeder the easy win.

#37 CanucksJay

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 12:53 PM

"I could drop my expectation of him and finally just come to terms that this is it. He will NEVER use his speed to create a scoring chance"

Schroeder says HI...........and Hi again. I have seen Raymond use his speed twice to give JS scoring chances and he did it often with Kes before his injury.


I'm talking high end speed (the kind of speed Raymond has) to create scoring chances. Not the kind that 80% of NHLers have when they rush up the ice and finds a trailer.

When someone like Tanguay rushes up the ice and stops at the half wall looking for a trailer, we talk about his passing and vision. Raymond is pretty much playing that kind of game (not utilizing his speed). (which like I said is maybe his limit and perhaps I should come to terms with that.

If he becomes even half the player Tanguay is, I would be happy.

#38 "Bull" Horvat

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 01:47 PM

And Weise is fastest of them all.


Ballard won the skating competition last year, AND he falls less ALTHOUGH this is about fastest skater i think this includes the amount of times these guys fall.

Ballard wins this title.
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#39 casofilia.canuck.nz

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 01:53 PM

Again, who cares? What the fans want is goals, more goals than the opposition, If you wnat to know who is faster set up a race.

If you are fast and can't make, save or score goals change to speed skating and aim for the Olympics. If you can become a hockey player.

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#40 Captain Aerosex

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 02:17 PM

Raymond's got the best speed, but Ballard's the best skater. Though Raymond's fastest, I think Hansen uses his speed much better.

Too bad we don't have somebody as fast as Grabner...






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#41 Starfruits

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 02:29 PM

Well, look like we have something to find out during this season's Superskills. Get Hansen, Schroeder, and Raymond to see who skates the fastest.

#42 Ray_Cathode

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 02:50 PM

Ramyond is fast back and fourth, but he has terrible agility and doesn't manage turns well, which is why you never see him blow by people despite his speed. Hansen is very fast and agile, and I've always figured he's probably quicker than Raymond. That's why you see Hansen break and blow past defenders randomly for his breakaways every now and then. Where Raymond.. well.. doesn't.


Not since his broken back, in any event. Of course, you also have to watch the gap defenders give Raymond as opposed to Hansen - so, hard to say. One thing I know for sure, all three of them come back hard and fast on the backcheck- which could make them a different kind of defensive third line - with fast break capability on transition.

#43 Kassian's Tooth

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 04:36 PM

Not many players in the league faster than Mayray.

Hate to bring it up but Grabbner is one.

#44 LegionOfDoom

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 04:50 PM

Booth is right up there as well, that guys seems to beat a lot of guys to the outside, might be partially strength as well tho

#45 SamiSalo

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 05:33 PM

Hate to bring it up but Grabbner is one.


Gaborik too,

They both have that explosive speed that Raymond is lacking, its why he never beats a defender for a breakaway.

#46 Christophe

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 06:01 PM

For a team that's average age is higher than probably 50% of the league, they do have some speedsters.

MayRay is obviously pretty quick.
Schroeder has shown not only how fast, but how agile he can be.
Kesler has some insane top end speed.
Hansen also has good top speed.
Weise just showed that he's gotten a lot quicker than last year.

Hell, almost anyone on this team can skate at a pretty high end. Sedin's are obviously still a little slow, but are getting better each year. Some of the D are lacking too.

All around though, this team can really push a counter attack fast with their rushing speed.

#47 pwnstar

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 06:03 PM

Raymond of course

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#48 5minutesinthebox

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 07:42 PM

Good point. I wont argue with anything you said because its true.
He has made an improvement this year for all the reasons stated above.

Maybe I have to change my expectation of him because as you said, he will never fool himself into making a power move against a bigger defender. I guess the fan in me wants to see Raymond take it to another level. Raymond has a god given talent for speed. The way he uses is right now is simply to back up the defence when he gains the zone but I feel like he could do so much more.

I could drop my expectation of him and finally just come to terms that this is it. He will NEVER use his speed to create a scoring chance despite having the toolbox to do it. He will be a perimeter player that chips in for 10-15 goals and relies on his team mates for success.

But if that's the case, I'd rather find someone else as I dont think that will cut it come playoff time


The problem is you are still using the whole 'perimeter player' moniker. Show me one of his goals that was scored from the perimeter this year. Its not that I have dropped my expectations for Raymond, quite the opposite in fact. He is playing exactly how I knew he could.

But he is not a Hansen or a Kesler. He's not a power forward so why do people expect him to play like one?
He uses his speed extremely effectively, backs down defences, forechecks, causes teams to take penalties..etc..
He doesnt have the size and (as some else mentioned) defenders seem to respect his speed more than Hansens. And how exactly is he depending on his team mates for success? His goals have come from working hard, and being in the right place at the right time. Im sorry but his linemates are not the ones putting the puck in the back of the net, and every single one of his goals has been either a quality shot or a 2nd chance of his own shot.

#49 thehamburglar

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 08:30 PM

We do have quite a few fast players in the line up right now, that's nice.
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#50 NP-4815162342

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 09:11 PM

Ballard

#51 bobopan

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 09:23 PM

Schroder looks damn fast... Raymond probably is at least equal when he manages to stay on his feet.

#52 Rypien37

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 09:28 PM

In terms of overall fluidity, technique and speed, Ballard is BY FAR the best skater on this team.

Probably one of the best in the league.

The guy turns skating into a art form, just seems like he's floating and gliding, amazing ability.
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#53 kmotamed

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 10:55 PM

I guess we'll see at the Canucks Superskills competition!

#54 Bang Bang Boogie

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 11:12 PM

For a team that's average age is higher than probably 50% of the league, they do have some speedsters.

MayRay is obviously pretty quick.
Schroeder has shown not only how fast, but how agile he can be.
Kesler has some insane top end speed.
Hansen also has good top speed.
Weise just showed that he's gotten a lot quicker than last year.

Hell, almost anyone on this team can skate at a pretty high end. Sedin's are obviously still a little slow, but are getting better each year. Some of the D are lacking too.

All around though, this team can really push a counter attack fast with their rushing speed.


Don't forget Booth and Ballard. Higgins is no slouch in the speed department either.
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#55 bossram

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 11:13 PM

Ballard.

His skating is so smooth and effortless, he takes much larger strides than most people when he skates.


This. Ballard is the fastest skater on the team. He takes huge, powerful strides.

Raymond is straight-line fast. Hansen doesn't have quite the top-end of Raymond, but seems more agile/shifty to shake or juke defenders.

Schroeder looks fast because he has shorter strides. He has to move his feet more.
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#56 Soren5556

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 12:50 AM

Its weise.

#57 Bananas

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 12:52 AM

What a truly enlightening thread, Gibbster!

Seems like you answered your own question in one line.


In all seriousness, I think you're right - plus Schroeder is so much more shifty than Raymond. He's also stronger on his skates, and with better hockey sense.

All in all, he is a better player than Raymond, but Raymond has more NHL experience. Raymond's not bad but he's inconsistent.



You're a douchebag.


Back on topic: This skills competition will be fun to see. Schroeder, Raymond, and Ballard. Hansen is up there, too, and Kesler isn't far behind along with Burrows. We've got a pretty fast team. I really wish our system utilized it...

We'll let Schroeder and MayRay settle it there. I think Schroeder can probably accelerate better. He does weigh less...
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#58 Baggins

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 05:52 AM

I'll let you know next Sunday.

:emot-parrot:

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#59 Baggins

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 05:57 AM

You're a douchebag.


Back on topic: This skills competition will be fun to see. Schroeder, Raymond, and Ballard. Hansen is up there, too, and Kesler isn't far behind along with Burrows. We've got a pretty fast team. I really wish our system utilized it...

We'll let Schroeder and MayRay settle it there. I think Schroeder can probably accelerate better. He does weigh less...


Actually Dazzle's post was simply sarcastic, while yours is a personal attack. Which is worse? I don't recall any board rules against sarcasm. Personal attacks on the other hand....

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