Cody Hodgson with the goal of the year?

[prana16]

Well Mike if we are really arguing about interpitation of how MG speaks then I guess this is over.

I also find it funny how your continued response is that MG didn't say it point blank in the exact words you would like to here so it didn't happen.

Then when I bring up the fact that Cody point blank dodged the question a number of times (Which 100% hints he asked for a trade, and that he just doesn't want to admit it) you can make up some excuse for it.

Thats fine. Cody didn't want to be here, it is clear as day. And if you don't believe it just think about what would have happened had we not traded him. The issues would only continue and if we didn't trade him he would have made the RFA process a disaster and held out, or made it known that he wanted a trade.

[Losing With Pride]

The problem isn't that we traded... the problem is what we got in return.

Kassian has showed minimal success and this is what everyone is kicking and screaming about.

Gilils was under pressure to add some pieces for the playoff run but acquired a non NHL ready asset for Hodgson.

[mikeburn]

The problem isn't that we traded... the problem is what we got in return.

Kassian has showed minimal success and this is what everyone is kicking and screaming about.

Gilils was under pressure to add some pieces for the playoff run but acquired a non NHL ready asset for Hodgson.

[Smashian Kassian]

You're' still not getting it. It's not about me or the words I would like. It's about the fact Gillis never said Hodgson asked for a trade or said he wanted out of Vancouver. According to even you, Gilli is a "sophisticated" talker, he implied to create an impression and you've fallen for it.

The fact that players do not, as a general rule, "talk back" or otherwise criticize and reproach mgmt publicly, is not an excuse but a viable explanation for why Hodgson declined to say anything that might be construed as reproaching Gillis for how he described matters.

There's no rocket science involved here - the kid simply did what most players do when their character and/or abilities are criticized by mgmt - he spoke only positively of others, referencing his gratefulness for opportunities and fans, then moved on.

(Incidentally, has it occurred to you that if Hodgson did ask for a trade and everyone already presumed as much due Gillis' commentary, he had nothing to lose by just saying it straight up himself? What was done, was done after all. People liked him or not. The new team/fans might even like him more for having no regrets or misplaced loyalties. And many players before him have gone public with saying they wanted a trade for a different opportunity (see: Igninla )

It's not "clear as day", there is no evidence that Hodgson "wanted to move on...", etc. That's the entire point, lol. No matter how many times you repeat a personal opinion, it will not magically become a fact.

You have had an opportunity to critically analyze what was actually said and done, and still persist with holding onto personal interpretations which simply don't stand up to scrutiny. And hey, no worries, it's only a hockey thing, it's only chatter about tiny matters and people in the scheme of things. The only "big deal" comes when people apply the same decision-making style when faced with the big decisions in life

[prana16]

I was gunna reply to your post again and go through the whole thing point by point.

Then I stumbled upon this and it has become remarkably clear you are just making your own kool-aid and drinkning it.

There is tons of evidence to support the theory Cody Hodgson didn't want to be here, but you are closing your eyes and denying it, and you are doing exactly what you criticized me for doing and thats putting your personal opinion as fact.

[Smashian Kassian]

Sadly i think of it all the time. I think about how it gutted the team last year at the deadline killing our secondary offence and second unit powerplay right before a playoff run. I think about how we just gave away two players in two years that were contending for the calder on a team that struggles for offense after the twins. Replacing that rookie with an old shut down centre even though we had a selke winning centre on our roster. I think about how that young rookie got continually demoted for success as this coach is want to do while kesler seems to get a pass because he was good 3 years ago. How all the talk of merit and playing those that give the best chance to win is total bs. An injured ineffective kesler continues to play on the second line no matter how bad he is and no matter how good someone else plays. I think about how Cody should have supplanted Kesler last year if actually by merit.. and this year we would not be screaming for centres. We would not be talking about giving away our best trade asset in years (lu/corey) for yet another 3rd line centre if we hadn't have ditched our first round, calder candidate first line young centre that is scoring the same as the twins this year on a far far worse team. I think about two to three years from now when the twins need to start stepping back into a secondary role, who we have to centre and run this team, because it isn't kesler both on ability, character or health.

[Smashian Kassian]

No there isn't any evidence. There is not one statement, not one reaction on trade day, not one reaction since that would suggest he either asked for a trade or didn't want to be here or even expected a trade. Nothing, there is literally not one specific thing you can point to. No players comment on past trades or mngmt unless they are nuts or vets. You kill your career doing that. So there is very good reason for Hodgson to say "no comment" when asked directly.. There is however NO good reason at all for MG to make innuendos other than to cover his ass for an unpopular trade. Normally gillis plays the respect game, normally its all about making vancouver a better culture and organization.. yet in this case he goes out of his way to bad mouth the kid.. his own 1st big draft pick. Completely against cody's known character.. completely against gilis's usual way of doing business. He made a mistake and he knew it. His obsession with size and grit, and AV's obsession with playing a non scoring 3rd line for 25 mins a night against the other teams top line to the detriment of every offensive prospect we have, to the detriment of rolling four lines (detroit's old model ) its an error, an error that has hurt the team. He's been covering his own ass on this issue ever since and with cody scoring like the twins and playing a 1st line role while zack plays with plugs on the 4th; while the team has no centre's and Kesler is nowhere to be found and likely done as anything beyond a third line checker.. it was a major major mistake.

[prana16]

]Grabner had no place on this team

[mikeburn]

Yes there is.

I have already dug out enough examples and enough evidence, just go back and view my previous posts.

And this isn't Cody Hodgson being critical of the Management. I'll play along and take a sip or yours and Mikes kool-aid for a second here.

Lets say Cody Hodgson didn't request a trade or anything and there were absolutely no issues. So Cody Hodgson is traded. And there are rumors he requested a trade.

Now he has the opportunity both to Scott Oake and Jim Jamieson among others to say, no I didn't request a trade. So if he says that and according to you guys tells the truth. How is that being critical of the managment? All he is doing there is protecting himself saying that he didn't request a trade. He could have said right there that he didn't and that he wished the organization well. He wouldn't have to attack Gillis and call him lier or anything, and he wouldn't. All he would say is that he didn't, no one in his cap requested a trade, and that he wished them well. That wouldn't be a shot at our managment. He's not saying anything bad about our management.

So why would he not do that if infact he or anyone associated with him didn't request or a trade, or wasn't unhappy here or whatever.

Explain it? I just can't understand why he would allow false rumors to make himself look bad when he doesn't have to.

And as you say, this is normally not how Gillis does things.

So doesn't that in itself point to something being fishy here? Or is he suddenly going to go against the way he has opperated from day 1, just in this 1 particular case? for which reason?

What that points to is something fishy, something behind the scenes and that was revealed.

There isnt a conspiracy going on where MG and AV are trying to purposely destroy this franchise. I think you are going overboard to protect your fantasy's that Cody Hodgson is the golden boy and victim in all of this.

[Erik Karlsson]

It's because the Americans are taking over.. Out Hodgson, Lu.... In Schroeder, Schneider haha.

[mikeburn]

It's because the Americans are taking over.. Out Hodgson, Lu.... In Schroeder, Schneider haha.

[Smashian Kassian]

You've answered your own question.

To the extent that Gillis himself started the rumous about Hodgson asking for a trade with his implied "there were issues and we determined Hodgson wanted out" [paraphrased] commentary, for Hodgson to offer any description of matters which ran contrary to the scene Gillis had already painted in the media would have equated to Hodgson calling Gillis a liar.

Best case scenario from there would have been further public exchanges btwn Canucks' mgmt and Hodgson/Hodgson's camp, prolonging the nasties unnecessarily. So, instead, the kid did what most players do when mgmt publicly questions/disses their character and/or ability - he declined to get into it and moved on.

Again, this isn't rocket science. Only human nature. Gillis played word games to put any backlash for the trade onto the player, and the player sucked it up and moved on. Players have to suck it up all the time when their bosses use the media to "say things" (see Kesler for that one ).

[prana16]

Yes there is.

I have already dug out enough examples and enough evidence, just go back and view my previous posts.

And this isn't Cody Hodgson being critical of the Management. I'll play along and take a sip or yours and Mikes kool-aid for a second here.

Lets say Cody Hodgson didn't request a trade or anything and there were absolutely no issues. So Cody Hodgson is traded. And there are rumors he requested a trade.

Now he has the opportunity both to Scott Oake and Jim Jamieson among others to say, no I didn't request a trade. So if he says that and according to you guys tells the truth. How is that being critical of the managment? All he is doing there is protecting himself saying that he didn't request a trade. He could have said right there that he didn't and that he wished the organization well. He wouldn't have to attack Gillis and call him lier or anything, and he wouldn't. All he would say is that he didn't, no one in his cap requested a trade, and that he wished them well. That wouldn't be a shot at our managment. He's not saying anything bad about our management.

So why would he not do that if infact he or anyone associated with him didn't request or a trade, or wasn't unhappy here or whatever.

Explain it? I just can't understand why he would allow false rumors to make himself look bad when he doesn't have to.

And as you say, this is normally not how Gillis does things.

So doesn't that in itself point to something being fishy here? Or is he suddenly going to go against the way he has opperated from day 1, just in this 1 particular case? for which reason?

What that points to is something fishy, something behind the scenes and that was revealed.

There isnt a conspiracy going on where MG and AV are trying to purposely destroy this franchise. I think you are going overboard to protect your fantasy's that Cody Hodgson is the golden boy and victim in all of this.

[Smashian Kassian]

These are the mantras of those in complete denial about how MG and AV have run this team.. we signed other wingers, there was room for him.. we needed offence.. since he was gone we got marco sturm and david booth.. both with zero impact at about 6x the cost. You make room for your young talented players That is the detroit model Gillis wanted, you roll 4 balanced lines, you develop your talent not get rid of it.We have had plenty of dead weight taking up roster spots on this team for years yet give away our young prospects only to add to that dead weight.

And Kesler is not a better hockey player than Hodgson right now.. In no way is he better. And he wasnt' better last year either He is an elite 3rd line centre and cody hodgson is a top 6 centre.. he makes his wingers better and scores himself, he's younger cheaper and is actually in the line up .

[Special Ed]

What are we still debating?

Hodgson is BETER in comparison to BOTH Kassian AND Kesler this year.

The end.

[Smashian Kassian]

The victim in this is the canucks and the fans do to absolutely terrible asset management by a GM that had a lot of promise and a Coach that seems to made of teflon.. i mean look at the way he has used and abused gilis own picks and the players he has traded for.. throwing kassian on the 4th after lighting it up with the twins.. that little stint made the kassianvs hodgson crap go away.. then av for whatever reason thought that was working too well.. gillis signs a 4 million defenseman in ballard and av sticks him undeservedly in the press box in favour of rome, or alberts or barker etc. .. AV makes gillis look like an ass on the regular yet MG keeps him around.. AV was the first one to jump on cody.. gilis's prized pick as well. .

Look at your sig and your name.. you shouldn't be suggesting that other people are holding up a golden boy.

[Smashian Kassian]

What are we still debating?

Hodgson is BETER in comparison to BOTH Kassian AND Kesler this year.

The end.

[Losing With Pride]

I think people forget Hodgson was the leading scorer in the WJC ahead of John Tavares.

That and the CHL player of the year...

I'm not saying he's better than Tavares... not even close but his resume was quite impressive.

[Edlerberry]

I think people forget Hodgson was the leading scorer in the WJC ahead of John Tavares.

That and the CHL player of the year...

I'm not saying he's better than Tavares... not even close but his resume was quite impressive.

[oldnews]

Buffalo should add him to their fire sale. Got what you can for him while his numbers are inflated.