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Italia2006

Is it time for a new coach?

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I for one am appreciative that the topic was raised, some very good conversation and some good points raised no matter which side of the fence you are sitting.

Bodee made a good point, you don't want to turn it into a revolving door, you have to sit down and take inventory of your assets and utilize that knowledge to make an informed decision when replacing the current head coach.

As of this moment I don't think they have an identity, with all the juggling AV does, and under utilization of certain assets I believe they are having a hard time finding it.

Get mad AV, stick to a gameplan, have some conviction, stop giggling, man up grab the bull by the horns, give these guys some direction, LEAD, LEAD, LEAD.

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My point was rather not that the topic does not need to be discussed, but that threads get opened nearly daily to do so. As fans on a forum we have every right to voice and express, but the threads are abundant. Yup, I know you can make a thread any ol' time you want as well.

/topic/341375-av-getting-a-free-pass/">http://forum.canucks...ng-a-free-pass/

/topic/341329-what-can-av-even-do-with-this-team/">http://forum.canucks...with-this-team/

/topic/340092-coaching-staff-needs-a-shake-up/">http://forum.canucks...eds-a-shake-up/

/topic/341030-av-needs-to-stop-playing-favorites/">http://forum.canucks...ying-favorites/

/topic/340629-vigneault-appreciation-thread/">http://forum.canucks...ciation-thread/

just sayin.

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It's time for someone to make an original thread. It's not the coach, its the players.

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Alain Vigneault's style of coaching has gone stale with this team. They no longer look to him for guidance. From failing to strategize with his lines and plays to using the media scrums to criticize his players, AV has effectively alienated himself from his team.

This team, which has enough talent to be playing far better than they are, is tuning him out. He has always been a predictable coach, and it was only a matter of time before other teams would figure his methods out. Now they have, and yet he still hasn't adjusted and tried new plays. He is played out and has nothing more to offer this team. They are regressing now and will continue to do so unless a coaching change is made.

He has served the team well and should be remembered fondly. However keeping him on will only be an exercise in nostalgia.

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For someone who supposedly has all this coaching experience I find it hard to believe that you do not even understand that a player's role, confidence (both self and from the coaching staff), opportunity, and linemates will all have an impact on their offensive production. This is especially true for defencemen.

If a player knows that any chance he takes that does not work out will result in a benching, how likely is he going to be to take any chances at all? Not very.

Ballard has never been given any opportunity to even see if he can contribute offensively to this team. That is not on Ballard but on the coaching staff.

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Please.

The Sedins are creditted to Crow, they were 1st line players before AV had anything to do with them.

Schneider developed into the best goalie in the AHL, but not with AV. I don't see how that can be credited to him either.

And if anything he stalled Cody's development.

The rest of the list you could make reasonable cases for, although the thing that strikes me, is they are all great defensive guys, goes along with his system, that's why they worked, Kesler was a defensive center early on, Hansen was a defensive/grinding forward, Raymond was playing a secondary role early on, while being relied on for the PK. Ditto to Burrows. Edler and Bieksa are both good defensively.

Although with guys like Cody, and even perhaps we are seeing it with Kassian. He can't develop the offensive side and teach them defense, he just parks them on the end of the bench. We saw it with Shirokov too.

He has been alright at developing players, but I will take Crow over him as a developmental coach.

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The problem with firing any coach is "then what"? The only option people put up is Ruff and i just don't see that he is going to offer anything that substantially different. A new voice might help for a bit, but the team is missing some critical pieces and you simply can't coach your way out of that. After a bit, a new coach is going to have to deal with these gaps in the lineup too. Of course, someone might do better than AV, but that is just hoping so at this point. Multi-million dollar business don't generally make decisions based on hope.

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And for someone who likes to go on about how good coaches "find a way" and there are no excuses, you sure make a lot of them when it comes to Ballard.

I like him too, but the fact is, he hasn't seized any of his opportunities to take over a top four role. He hasn't showed an ability to play in the right side, so sits behind Hamhuis and Edler on the depth chart. If the Canucks decide they want more physicality or less high-risk play, he drops behind Alberts, just as he did Rome.

Please spare me about him not being given a chance. He played 21 games and averaged 15 minutes per game. That should be ample time for a veteran defenseman.

BTW: Sorry for taking so long to get back to you. I had a hockey game of my own last night. (some of us actually play the game)

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Have you watched Ballard this season? Your argument about not playing well on the right side certainly applied his first year here and, to a lesser degree last year, but not this season. He has been much better on the right side this season and has been leaps and bounds better on the right than Garrison and Edler..........

If you have watched Edler play this season you would realize that no one should be below him on the depth chart. I don't care how many points he scores his defensive play more than nullifies that .......

And to be fair, to succeed you need a REAL opportunity. Ballard has not been given any real chance at a top 4 job in Vancouver at all since he has been here. Look at his total PP time in 3 years in Van and then tell me he has been given an opportunity to contribute as a top 4 D (all top 4 D on this team regularly play the PP so that is an excellent benchmark to prove you wrong).

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The problem with firing any coach is "then what"? The only option people put up is Ruff and i just don't see that he is going to offer anything that substantially different. A new voice might help for a bit, but the team is missing some critical pieces and you simply can't coach your way out of that. After a bit, a new coach is going to have to deal with these gaps in the lineup too. Of course, someone might do better than AV, but that is just hoping so at this point. Multi-million dollar business don't generally make decisions based on hope.

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As I said, you have to have an opportunity to succeed. And you have to know that if you take chances to do so you are not going to be stapled to the bench or put in the press box.

It is funny how some non AV favorite players are very productive elsewhere until they come here and get no opportunity to be. Then they suddenly lose their ability to play the game and it has nothing to do with all the factors I mentioned before? That is your argument as a supposed coach? Seriously AV should hire you as his assistant. You are just as clueless as he is.

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As I said, you have to have an opportunity to succeed. And you have to know that if you take chances to do so you are not going to be stapled to the bench or put in the press box.

It is funny how some non AV favorite players are very productive elsewhere until they come here and get no opportunity to be. Then they suddenly lose their ability to play the game and it has nothing to do with all the factors I mentioned before? That is your argument as a supposed coach? Seriously AV should hire you as his assistant. You are just as clueless as he is.

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I would love to see Ruff coaching the Canucks.

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Oh yes, anyone who doesn't agree that AV is an "assclown" is "clueless".

Remember back when you were arguing that Bieksa was garbage and I was disagreeing with you? Who turned out to be "clueless" that time?

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I love insecure people who point out an irrelevant past argument to supposedly provide some sort of validation that they are right about this one......pathetic actually. You can't answer anything I have pointed out regarding Ballard's opportunity here so you go back to Bieksa? Really? That is just sad man.

And I never said Bieksa was garbage, so you must have me confused with someone else.........I pointed out issues I had with him as a player and with his penchant for only showing up in contract years but also always have recognized he is a good player in some ways. Just not perfect like you seem to think.

And if you want to know my take on it, Bieksa had one season....his last contract year.......where he was used with Hamhuis as a shutdown pairing that they provided what this team actually needed. That year he was very valuable. But we also had Ehrhoff at the time so did not have to rely on him to carry the team offensively. Unfortunately, he has been again been bad defensively since that year though because your favorite coach decided to mess with what was the right role for him........the same goes for Hamhuis too. They get their 40 points now but they are not capable of shutting down anyone anymore as they are always pinching and rushing up the ice leaving odd man rushes in their wake. That has had as big a role in this team's slide the last few years as anything else.

So really, they are just other examples of how a players role, opportunity, confidence in themselves and from the coaching staff, and level of risk they are allowed to engage in on the ice all have an impact on their play.

I find it ironic that you think defencemen should produce points on the 3rd pairing playing with plug forwards and getting no PP time......what kind of expectations do you have for players you coach? That is simply unrealistic man.

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The flip side of that argument is also true though. Keeping a coach because the next guy might not do better is just as irrational.

To succeed in business you have to take calculated risks. There is also such a thing as self preservation as a GM.

AV has been the coach for many years and has made it out of the 2nd round of the playoffs once. The players on the team are pretty much the same for the last several years too so his message is likely getting stale. They are certainly playing like it.

If it was my business and it could mean my job (as in Gillis) I would certainly take the calculated risk of trying a new coach before falling on my own sword.

On a side note, I have seen several suggestions for new coaches. Ruff is the most accomplished I think but there are many other possibilities out there.

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I for one am appreciative that the topic was raised, some very good conversation and some good points raised no matter which side of the fence you are sitting.

Bodee made a good point, you don't want to turn it into a revolving door, you have to sit down and take inventory of your assets and utilize that knowledge to make an informed decision when replacing the current head coach.

As of this moment I don't think they have an identity, with all the juggling AV does, and under utilization of certain assets I believe they are having a hard time finding it.

Get mad AV, stick to a gameplan, have some conviction, stop giggling, man up grab the bull by the horns, give these guys some direction, LEAD, LEAD, LEAD.

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When you resort to calling me "clueless", I'm going to point out an incident where it was you that was shown to be clueless. Don't like it? Stick to stating fact, or your usual slanted opinions.

And I'm not asking for a bunch of points from the 3rd pairing. However, if someone is lobbying for PP time, they should be able to put up more points than Andrew Alberts and Cam Barker after playing three times as many games.

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