Barry_Wilkins Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Actually, I quite like debating with people who don't agree with me. And although it may not seem like it listening to the reasoning of those who don't agree with me actually helps me gain a better understanding of the issue being discussed. I have even been known to admit when I am wrong on the odd occasion..... My point was this: Why respond to a post of mine saying that the "fire AV crowd" is reacting to one loss than? No real reason to unless that is what you are suggesting I am doing. I actually agree (and have said many times in the past) that a lot of idiots out there only look at the right now to determine that he should be fired or even kept as coach. I just think if you read my comments on the whole for the past several years you would probably see that a one or two game reaction is not really the source for me. I have also NEVER said AV is a bad coach. EVER. Because that i just not true. He is a good coach, with strengths and weaknesses like all other coaches. I have said he has seemingly lost his effectiveness and run out of ideas here. I have said he tends to put his favorites ahead of what is best for the team at times. It is not outlandish to suggest either if you watch our team play and listen to our coach talk aftergames. That is why it is not about a coach that is "better" - whatever the hell that means anyway - but one who gives this team the things that it needs right now. When AV came to Vancouver he did that. He brought what they needed as a group and was a good fit. Now he doesn't though (imo) and I think it is time to find someone who does. It really is as simple as that. Agree or don't, as the idea is not to convince you to anyway. It is to discuss the issue.... So, I honestly don't know what else to say to you guys. If you see a team that is playing well and giving their all and a coaching staff that is trying all possible things to get them out of their current funk then I am happy for your optimism. I just don't see that though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Italia2006 Posted March 19, 2013 Author Share Posted March 19, 2013 Take tonight as a prime example as to why I think we need a coaching change. Why would you put Schroeder on the 4th line with a bunch of plugs? He should be on the 3rd line where he has a chance to succeed. Lappiere is a 4th liner. I did like that I heard they had Schroeder playing on the wing with the Wolves. Hopefully he can succeed on the wing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIBdaQUIB Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Take tonight as a prime example as to why I think we need a coaching change. Why would you put Schroeder on the 4th line with a bunch of plugs? He should be on the 3rd line where he has a chance to succeed. Lappiere is a 4th liner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Italia2006 Posted March 19, 2013 Author Share Posted March 19, 2013 Yeah. After that great move down the boards and around the net, if he was with top 6 guys, he likely would have had a guy to pass to that could have buried it. Waste of his strengths on the 4th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Light Racicot Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 I have also NEVER said AV is a bad coach. EVER. Because that i just not true. He is a good coach, with strengths and weaknesses like all other coaches. I have said he has seemingly lost his effectiveness and run out of ideas here. I have said he tends to put his favorites ahead of what is best for the team at times. It is not outlandish to suggest either if you watch our team play and listen to our coach talk aftergames. That is why it is not about a coach that is "better" - whatever the hell that means anyway - but one who gives this team the things that it needs right now. When AV came to Vancouver he did that. He brought what they needed as a group and was a good fit. Now he doesn't though (imo) and I think it is time to find someone who does. It really is as simple as that. Agree or don't, as the idea is not to convince you to anyway. It is to discuss the issue.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Italia2006 Posted March 19, 2013 Author Share Posted March 19, 2013 I guess in I don't mind keeping AV until the end of the year and just tank this year. We could use a high draft pick this year and get some young stud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Stop the intellectualizing... YES IT'S TIME FOR A NEW COACH! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THERETOOL Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 I like the way the Vancouvr giants did it this year .. They knew they werent going to take it all , so they traded away some of their older players for young studs and high draft picks .. knowing that they would then get a 1st or second pick in the upcoming draft because they had traded for the future .. yeah it was an ugly year , but an incredibly fast rebuild .. we can fire the coach ,,,, and what ? just make the playoffs ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanNuck Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 It's time for someone to make an original thread. It's not the coach, its the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadaguy_25 Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Actually, I quite like debating with people who don't agree with me. And although it may not seem like it listening to the reasoning of those who don't agree with me actually helps me gain a better understanding of the issue being discussed. I have even been known to admit when I am wrong on the odd occasion..... My point was this: Why respond to a post of mine saying that the "fire AV crowd" is reacting to one loss than? No real reason to unless that is what you are suggesting I am doing. I actually agree (and have said many times in the past) that a lot of idiots out there only look at the right now to determine that he should be fired or even kept as coach. I just think if you read my comments on the whole for the past several years you would probably see that a one or two game reaction is not really the source for me. I have also NEVER said AV is a bad coach. EVER. Because that i just not true. He is a good coach, with strengths and weaknesses like all other coaches. I have said he has seemingly lost his effectiveness and run out of ideas here. I have said he tends to put his favorites ahead of what is best for the team at times. It is not outlandish to suggest either if you watch our team play and listen to our coach talk aftergames. That is why it is not about a coach that is "better" - whatever the hell that means anyway - but one who gives this team the things that it needs right now. When AV came to Vancouver he did that. He brought what they needed as a group and was a good fit. Now he doesn't though (imo) and I think it is time to find someone who does. It really is as simple as that. Agree or don't, as the idea is not to convince you to anyway. It is to discuss the issue.... So, I honestly don't know what else to say to you guys. If you see a team that is playing well and giving their all and a coaching staff that is trying all possible things to get them out of their current funk then I am happy for your optimism. I just don't see that though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super_Canuck Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 it's time for a new fricken GM aswell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noseforthenet Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 It's pretty easy to see that something has to happen as a wakeup call!!! The players have quit on AV, from the looks of it. 5 blocked shots, never playing a full 60 minutes. This sense of entitlement has the team in cruise control. New coach needs to come in and said coach has to see what he has and communicate to Mike Gillis which of the core isn't working. That guy has to be traded. No ifs ands or buts! This team needs to awaken from its slumber and start to put the foot on the gas!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry_Wilkins Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 This is my thought exactly. AV was brought in to build a new system. When he was hired, the West Coast Express style of run and gun hockey that Crawford had coached was over. Bertuzzi was on his way out, and Naslund and Morrison were soon to follow. With the addition of Luongo and bolstering the D-core, we needed to change to a more defensive style of hockey to win games. Those were the pieces we had and AV was the right coach for that team. But this is no longer the same team. As we brought in more offensive players, AV has been unable to keep up. That's why guys like Grabner, Hodgson, Booth and Kassian don't fit the mold. They are expected to reign in their offensive sides to focus on playing shut-down roles that they're not suited for. Kassian and Booth are most effective when they can bring a physical, offensive presence, but they can't do that because if they take themselves out of position and lay out someone with a big hit, they sit the rest of the game. We need a new coach that is on the same page as this team. AV is a good coach. He just isn't the right coach for this group of players, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Even if MG does go, AV still needs to go too. His time is up. AV has been with this group for too long that no matter what happens with the team philosophy or style of play, he will not magically become the right choice again just because it is a new GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry_Wilkins Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Even if MG does go, AV still needs to go too. His time is up. AV has been with this group for too long that no matter what happens with the team philosophy or style of play, he will not magically become the right choice again just because it is a new GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllEyezOnMe Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 AV's only a part of the problem not the whole problem ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksJay Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 MG, I thought I would NEVER say this but GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS! 2 options 1) Make some trades and shake up the team OR 2) Fire AV I suggest you start with option 2 as it is much easier than option 1 and go from there. This board will implode if we hear that Ruff signed on as an assistant coach in Chicago/Ana/Boston going into the playoffs because nobody offered him a job lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 I get your meaning, and I agree with you to a point, but I think you are being a bit uncharitable to AV. I don't see how AV could not have had any input what-so-ever in the Sedin's development. I see them becoming better, more well rounded players under AV's style rather than Crawford's shoot first and maybe defend later style. (Yes, maybe I'm being a bit uncharitable to Crawford, who I do like as a coach). Schneider would still have been influenced by what the big club wanted from him, even if he was down on the farm all season long. And wouldn't Schneider be being developed while he was up here as Luongo's back-up? Stalled Hodgson's development how? Did Av make Hodgson a slower skater? Did AV make Hodgson a worse defensive player? Did AV make Hodgson worse in the face-off circle? Did AV make Hodgson a softer player to play against? Av certainly didn't affect Hodgson's offensive ability (the kid had a couple of pretty good goals on the weekend, but finished even on +/-). Perhaps there is something to a lack of ability in teaching the offensive side of the game. This being said, Kesler has done fairly well for himself being (mostly) under AV's tutelage. Burrows has made his mark, but an argument can be made that this is mostly from being associated with the Sedins. Raymond was doing fairly well prior to a couple of injuries derailing his career. And seeing how Hodgson is doing fairly well (offensively at least), his time here in Vancouver with AV hasn't hurt him any. Now what can be said for these guys who are adept at offense is that they are, as you yourself have pointed out, is that they are also good at the defensive side of the game. So, might it not be said that AV emphasized their already good defensive game, and that made them better offensive players (Raymond's current issues aside)? regards, G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksJay Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Pehaps, without going through the whole thing step for step. You make some solid points G. AV perhaps didn't stall Cody's development, although I don't think he has had a great benefit on it either really. And I still by what I said about Cory and the Twins. Cory was a star in the AHL and the Sedins were 1st liners under Crow, AV came in and let them play the style they always had known under Crow. But I give Crow credit for there development and maturation as players an people. I would just like to see him stick with players like Schroeder and Kassian and give them opportunities to succeed. Especially now we need help and they seem to be some of the only guys who haven't been given top notch opportunities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 People call Hodgson a whiner etc but I was thinking about this today...I blame AV If Hodgson played for Detroit behind Datsyuk and Zetterberg, you think the same thing would have happened under Babcock's watch? Babcock treats his players with fairness and respect and as a result, he gets respect in return and loyalty. I think about all the dumb AV quotes just yucking it up with the media and it makes me steam lol. Why don't you take just half that effort into building relationships and connections with your players? If we had a coach like Babcock, what would have happened is Hodgson would have shut his mouth and played hard on the 3rd line until he started showing signs he might be better than Kesler. At that point, Babcock would have enough respect from Kesler where Kes would check his ego and move to wing with Hodgson centering and be a dominant 2nd line. We would play an uptempo puck possession game where all 3 units of d-men join the rush and we would get timely chances created by guys like Bieksa, Edler, and Ballard on the 3rd unit when they push the pace. EFF I hate AV Seriously? Didn't you see Shroeder creating chances on the 4th line while playing like Weise and Sestito? Maybe if you see a young offensive player having a good game while our team is struggling to score, it just might be a good idea to try him with some talent around him? Damn I hate AV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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