The Day After. Draft or Trade?

[TheGuardian_]

So much disappointment over the lottery. The team slips to number 5. The odds have been shifted, tanking is not as assured. The league, while this system could allow for easier manipulation, probably doesn't need to now and will change the odds for next year again, this seems to be a work in progress. In the last three years, three different draft systems/odds. You have to understand that it wasn't the bottom teams that wanted the lottery changed, it wasn't even because of Edmonton's prowess in collecting #1's. It was because of McDavid, Eichel, Mathews and the others in those two draft years. Top "losing" teams wanted a better chance at those players and they wanted to make sure past practices of doing "what's best for the franchise moving forward" didn't occur as often and as transparently as it had become. To the point where team's were openly stating they were going after high draft spots early in the season. They couldn't change the rules just for those drafts so they now have a system that doesn't help the bottom teams out of the basement as quickly meaning teams will have to be very active in trading and using each team's strengths for improvement.

 

The lottery, the Canucks got 5th again, it should not have been unexpected or surprising, the top three selections were all diminished by 10% due to Vegas's entry into the draft while the rest had improved odds, it remains to be seen how much the system is altered now that this draft is done.

 

In this draft the top two suggested prospects would be the equivalent of #'5 to 8 in last two year's drafts, a good chance that Tkachuk would have been 1rst overall if he was in this year.

 

So now there is the expansion draft to come and the wheeling and dealing that could create, the pick is an asset to some teams needing cap room, just being a number five overall in the first round can be sold in some markets.

 

This wasn't the year to get the number 1 overall, 2019 will be, a couple of 15 year olds have been "noticed" This is a year when draft picks should be packaged and traded for past high draft picks of the last two years not yet in the NHL.

 

What and who do you think the Canucks will do? Another "safe" pick like a dman, they can always take years to develop so judging how good the pick was is postponed, a forward? most first rounder's can at least be on the bottom three but that is not the need, so risky if sold wrong, Size? watch the playoffs, no whistles, big is good, big and fast, better.

 

Or package the pick for a player like Dylan Strome, Jesse Puljujarvi, Josh Ho-sang, Tyson Jost, Alexander Nylander, you get the idea, there are prospects with a high pedigree that may be made available if the right offer made or offered enough. I dare say that those mentioned would/could all be "upgrades".

 

 

 

 

[Warhippy]

...Draft...

 

Come on guys, knock this whining crap off stop fearing the worst and stop complaining.

 

It happened, again; so what.

 

Draft best center at 5.

Trade Tanev or Edler for a pick ranged 8 to 18, and addition pick/prospect(s)

Draft best defenseman at that pick

Finish worst in the leagu by 7 points next year

Draft 4th after the lottery

 

Repeat.

 

We're going to be bad to mediocre until 2020-2021 at the earliest.  Big deal, price to pay sometimes for being at, near or on top for over a decade

 

But trading UP would be about the stupidest thing we could do.  I am going to find it amusing how over the last few weeks if the Canucks won, that pick trading down wasn't going to garner more than a 2nd, but now will cost us horvat the sedins AND our first to jump up to 1st or 2nd.

 

Keep the pick, draft the player, trade for improvements.

[Tajun]

The way I see it, under the old rules if Jersey had won we would still have been 3rd, not that much better than 5th. Really, it was Colorado who got the shaft.

 

Anyway, I'd take the best center we see available, and hope he works out. Like you said, the next two years (and the previous) are the ones to win the lotto, and I imagine we will be in it each time. I'd be happy to sniff the playoffs in 2020, as long as our guys are playing hard and improving along the way. Cup in 2022 perhaps? I can dream...

[sam13371337]

5 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

 Big deal, price to pay sometimes for being at, near or on top for over a decade

 

HAHAHAHA... 

 

I love this prevalent belief among many canuck fans.  its laughable.

 

You do realize the object of the game is to WIN THE STANLEY CUP. 

 

you do realize the ONLY goal of the entire league is to WIN THE STANLEY CUP

 

you do realize that no matter what you do in a season,  History only remembers who WON THE STANLEY CUP

 

starting to see a pattern?   Canucks supposed "success" is actually a monumental failure in my opinion. this team had a cup calibre team for a decade. including back to back presidents trophy.  a once in a lifetime perhaps collection of talent/ chips aligning. and they couldn't win it.  Absolute failure.  only a loser would consider this a "success"

 

end rant/

[Warhippy]

4 minutes ago, sam13371337 said:

HAHAHAHA... 

 

I love this prevalent belief among many canuck fans.  its laughable.

 

You do realize the object of the game is to WIN THE STANLEY CUP. 

 

you do realize the ONLY goal of the entire league is to WIN THE STANLEY CUP

 

you do realize that no matter what you do in a season,  History only remembers who WON THE STANLEY CUP

 

starting to see a pattern?   Canucks supposed "success" is actually a monumental failure in my opinion. this team had a cup calibre team for a decade. including back to back presidents trophy.  a once in a lifetime perhaps collection of talent/ chips aligning. and they couldn't win it.  Absolute failure.  only a loser would consider this a "success"

 

end rant/

Rant, whine, complain, gripe whatever it is you're doing

 

When you finish at near or in proximity of the top 5 in the entire league for at or over a decade you are a TOP TEAM in the league, cup win or not.  It means drafting low it means continually trading picks.

 

Glad you think success without reward is failure.  Go cheer for the Oilers,  They obviously succeeded where we didn't

[billabong]

Pick the best player available. 99.9% of the time that should be the plan. 

 

BUT the Canucks gotta deal tanev for another 1st rounder. It's absolutely necassary. 

 

That's how you can still make this draft a huge win for this fan base and franchise 

[Canada Hockey Place]

Even if the Canucks ended up with the #1 pick, it probably wouldn't matter, something else would happen to screw us. And if we did actually get the best player ever, the league would find a way to penalize us, move to Europe or something.

 

Canucks luck.... Just roll with it. One day it has to even out......one day. 

[Nucker 67]

The Gods looked down and saw EDM. They felt bad for them having to live in such a place, so they blessed them with hockey luck (getting Gretzky, McDavid etc). They had to give them "something".

 

The Gods then looked down at VAN and thought, they have already been blessed to live in such a beautiful place. We'll give them hockey, but they won't get the same hockey luck as EDM.

 

 

[Rocksterh8]

4 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

The Gods looked down and saw EDM. They felt bad for them having to live in such a place, so they blessed them with hockey luck (getting Gretzky, McDavid etc). They had to give them "something".

 

The Gods then looked down at VAN and thought, they have already been blessed to live in such a beautiful place. We'll give them hockey, but they won't get the same hockey luck as EDM.

 

 

Is it 420 already? keep up the good work.

[Nucker 67]

lol It's always 420

 

I'd rather be a Canucks fan living in Vancouver than an Oilers fan living in Edmonton.

[Rocksterh8]

13 minutes ago, sam13371337 said:

HAHAHAHA... 

 

I love this prevalent belief among many canuck fans.  its laughable.

 

You do realize the object of the game is to WIN THE STANLEY CUP. 

 

you do realize the ONLY goal of the entire league is to WIN THE STANLEY CUP

 

you do realize that no matter what you do in a season,  History only remembers who WON THE STANLEY CUP

 

starting to see a pattern?   Canucks supposed "success" is actually a monumental failure in my opinion. this team had a cup calibre team for a decade. including back to back presidents trophy.  a once in a lifetime perhaps collection of talent/ chips aligning. and they couldn't win it.  Absolute failure.  only a loser would consider this a "success"

 

end rant/

He's not really a canucks fan, he's an old hippy and it's 420 

[bloodycanuckleheads]

Trade down and take Lias Andersson (and get a pretty nice prospect for doing so)!

[CanadianRugby]

Draft a centre.  We're winning the lottery next year and drafting a defenseman.  

[TheGuardian_]

Here are the odds on #1 or #2 overall over the last three years for finishing dead last.

 

             1.         2.          3.         4.

2014 - 25% - 100% -

2015 - 20% - 100% -

2016 - 20% - 17.5% - 15.0% - 47.5%

2017 - 18% - 16.0% - 14.1% - 52%

 

Of course the odds of moving down went up remarkably, from moving down one spot to moving down three.

[Father Ryan]

40 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

...Draft...

 

Come on guys, knock this whining crap off stop fearing the worst and stop complaining.

 

It happened, again; so what.

 

Draft best center at 5.

Trade Tanev or Edler for a pick ranged 8 to 18, and addition pick/prospect(s)

Draft best defenseman at that pick

Finish worst in the leagu by 7 points next year

Draft 4th after the lottery

 

Repeat.

 

We're going to be bad to mediocre until 2020-2021 at the earliest.  Big deal, price to pay sometimes for being at, near or on top for over a decade

 

But trading UP would be about the stupidest thing we could do.  I am going to find it amusing how over the last few weeks if the Canucks won, that pick trading down wasn't going to garner more than a 2nd, but now will cost us horvat the sedins AND our first to jump up to 1st or 2nd.

 

Keep the pick, draft the player, trade for improvements.

Exactly. It happened. Get over it.

Yes, best center at 5th.

Yes, trade one of them (prefer Edler, but better return on Tanev); unfortunately I think the range would be 12 (at best) and more likely 15-25.

Yes, draft best Dman there (Hague?)

Next year, well...we'll see. I think we were honestly better than we showed, but no I'm not delusional, we are NOT a playoff team.

Draft wherever we draft. Hopefully, we get the luck that NJ/Phila/Dallas got this year (but who am I kidding?!)

Yes, repeat.

 

I see us in the playoffs in the 2019-2020 season, and serious Cup threat about 2 years after that. But this year, leave it alone with the #5 pick. I don't see that trading up would be wise; neither one of the two top players are that significantly better, and the assets required for the move would be more than it's worth.

 

[TheGuardian_]

28 minutes ago, billabong said:

Pick the best player available. 99.9% of the time that should be the plan. 

 

BUT the Canucks gotta deal tanev for another 1st rounder. It's absolutely necassary. 

 

That's how you can still make this draft a huge win for this fan base and franchise 

Any 1rst rounder in this draft apart from the top two often mentioned is too much of a crap shoot.

Tanev for some I named ........maybe but this isn't a proposal thread.

This fan base is not getting excited by this regime's draft picks any longer, who have they drafted has made a significant impact?

 

IMO they have to make a significant trade to engage fans again. A player like Drouin might not do it either, too well known, small and has well known (media) baggage.

[Warhippy]

1 minute ago, Father Ryan said:

Exactly. It happened. Get over it.

Yes, best center at 5th.

Yes, trade one of them (prefer Edler, but better return on Tanev); unfortunately I think the range would be 12 (at best) and more likely 15-25.

Yes, draft best Dman there (Hague?)

Next year, well...we'll see. I think we were honestly better than we showed, but no I'm not delusional, we are NOT a playoff team.

Draft wherever we draft. Hopefully, we get the luck that NJ/Phila/Dallas got this year (but who am I kidding?!)

Yes, repeat.

 

I see us in the playoffs in the 2019-2020 season, and serious Cup threat about 2 years after that. But this year, leave it alone with the #5 pick. I don't see that trading up would be wise; neither one of the two top players are that significantly better, and the assets required for the move would be more than it's worth.

 

I don't.   I expect 2021.

 

Mainly because we're going to need 1 to 3 years of development with last year's and this year's prospects.  Add in next year's.

 

We've nobody truly NHL ready in the near future and will be slowly bringing them in ALA willy D and Green's MO 

 

2021 for playoffs imo

[hlaevang]

50 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

...Draft...

 

Come on guys, knock this whining crap off stop fearing the worst and stop complaining.

 

It happened, again; so what.

 

Draft best center at 5.

Trade Tanev or Edler for a pick ranged 8 to 18, and addition pick/prospect(s)

Draft best defenseman at that pick

Finish worst in the leagu by 7 points next year

Draft 4th after the lottery

 

Repeat.

 

We're going to be bad to mediocre until 2020-2021 at the earliest.  Big deal, price to pay sometimes for being at, near or on top for over a decade

 

But trading UP would be about the stupidest thing we could do.  I am going to find it amusing how over the last few weeks if the Canucks won, that pick trading down wasn't going to garner more than a 2nd, but now will cost us horvat the sedins AND our first to jump up to 1st or 2nd.

 

Keep the pick, draft the player, trade for improvements.

You beat me to the punch apparently. 100% agree with your sentiment. The whining on CDC has got to stop. That said, why break a habit of a lifetime??? (#sarcasm)

[Warhippy]

1 minute ago, hlaevang said:

You beat me to the punch apparently. 100% agree with your sentiment. The whining on CDC has got to stop. That said, why break a habit of a lifetime??? (#sarcasm)

I think after 47 years of no 1st overall picks.  No cups.  And some very questionable actions on and off ice regarding our club some complaining is warranted 

 

But this lottery...meh

[TheGuardian_]

1 hour ago, Warhippy said:

Come on guys, knock this whining crap off stop fearing the worst and stop complaining.

 

It happened, again; so what.

I re-read what I posted, bad phrase there, I am not disappointed nor surprised by the outcome. I knew this is a shallow draft for two years, I was commenting about the various comments by fans to the media, it did seem that fans have become "resigned" to not quite getting there..