Spotted Zebra Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 What about Tootoo's history makes you want to believe the guy?Lets just do everyone a favour and admit that if Burrows was a Devil and TooToo was a Canuck, you'd do a completely 360, just because he wears blue and green. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Fig Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 What about Tootoo's history makes you want to believe the guy?If Tootoo was accusing Jared McCann or Dan Hamhuis of this, I'd doubt it. But he's not. He's talking about Burrows, you know, the guy who has a history of this kind of thing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Lets just do everyone a favour and admit that if Burrows was a Devil and TooToo was a Canuck, you'd do a completely 360, just because he wears blue and green.I really don't get this. Sorry. This has nothing to do with who plays for whom. Tootoo has a very negative history in the game, and out of the game. Why should we believe him over any other player? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 If Tootoo was accusing Jared McCann or Dan Hamhuis of this, I'd doubt it. But he's not. He's talking about Burrows, you know, the guy who has a history of this kind of thing. If it was Camillari or Gionta then I would accept your view, but it's Tootoo, who has a long history of issues, on and off the ice. This argument works both ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puckdontlie Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 I really don't get this. Sorry. This has nothing to do with who plays for whom. Tootoo has a very negative history in the game, and out of the game. Why should we believe him over any other player?On the flip side, what does Tootoo have to gain by lying about this? NJ is in the other conference... it gives no competitive advantage. Given that other people in the league have spoken out about Burrows, a league that has an unwritten code, I think what Tootoo said was legit. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 On the flip side, what does Tootoo have to gain by lying about this? NJ is in the other conference... it gives no competitive advantage. Given that other people in the league have spoken out about Burrows, a league that has an unwritten code, I think what Tootoo said was legit. I see what your saying, but there are other reasons for lying to embarrass someone else outside of hockey. We don't know, and that's my point. Tootoo has done nothing in his life or career to earn this level of trust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Fig Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 If it was Camillari or Gionta then I would accept your view, but it's Tootoo, who has a long history of issues, on and off the ice. This argument works both ways. Tootoo is a (reformed) addict, has some baggage in his life and plays on the edge. Based on these factors, I have no place to question his character. He's done things to correct his life and move forward and play the sport he loves, as any of us would hope he would strive to be able to do. Burrows has a heavy rep for running his mouth in an unflattering way. If it quacks like a duck... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canorth Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 (edited) On the flip side, what does Tootoo have to gain by lying about this? NJ is in the other conference... it gives no competitive advantage. Given that other people in the league have spoken out about Burrows, a league that has an unwritten code, I think what Tootoo said was legit. It gives a narrative as why to why he stepped on to the ice for no other reason than to be an A-hole. It shifts the blame and attention from his stupid actions, that everybody saw with their own eyes, to something that can not be corroborated or confirmed; however, people will be eager to jump to as conclusive. Edited November 9, 2015 by Canorth 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puckdontlie Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 I see what your saying, but there are other reasons for lying to embarrass someone else outside of hockey. We don't know, and that's my point. Tootoo has done nothing in his life or career to earn this level of trust. It gives a narrative as why to why he stepped on to the ice for no other reason than to be an A-hole. It shifts the blame and attention from his stupid actions, that everybody saw with their own eyes, to something that can not be corroborated or confirmed; however, people will be eager to jump to as conclusive. Whether it was real or not, Burrows is an unnecessary distraction. We turned the page on other players with negative baggage in Cooke, Luongo, Hodgson, Kesler and Kassian. Even if we win because Burrows smack talked the other team, how can you be proud of a dishonourable victory. I think it's time for Burrows to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tre Mac Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Only hipsters bump this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Googlie Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Burrows has a heavy rep for running his mouth in an unflattering way. If it quacks like a duck...Gretzky once famously said that Esa Tikkanen was the best at trash talking. No-one understood a word he said , but Gretz said Tikks told him they were great put downs and come backs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Fig Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Gretzky once famously said that Esa Tikkanen was the best at trash talking. No-one understood a word he said , but Gretz said Tikks told him they were great put downs and come backs.He spoke Tikkanese. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-DLC- Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 (edited) So then I assume you have no problem with anything Sean Avery has said or done?I have a problem with it ALL so feel it's wrong to extract tidbits (only) to focus on some (only). Either there's zero tolerance (there's really not) or it becomes accepted as part of the game and stays on the ice. You can't pick and choose based on who, what, why, when, how. Which is how I feel about enforcing anything out there...all or nothing. And since it's pretty much impossible to catch it all but if that is the mission here, then you set a precedent and everyone found "guilty" is punished until it is gone/cleaned up. But I've had enough of Burr being the bad guy...sure he is. But there are plenty of them...let's round them all up, shall we? Tootoo'll be one of the first to board that bus.Penalizing (some) people based on heated exchanges and "words"? I tend to think as I do here when I moderate....I want to hear from all parties and if you're engaged and in there, toe to toe, don't come whining about it afterward. Fight your own battle (he did...but in a cake and eat it too way). If you have an issue (Tootoo I mean), don't participate and then want the other guy addressed for also doing so. He's part of the problem, NOT the solution. Anger management is based in that...the walking away part. Or, fight (which is part of hockey)...but don't fight (before the whistle) and then cry (too). Deb, if that's the way you view these things, that's fine. Not everyone on the ice is into trash-talking, but there are some rats who try to drag anyone and everyone into it. I'm not trying to justify it or not justify it. I've heard 15-year-olds say some things on the ice you wouldn't believe. But based on this case, I tend to believe Tootoo as opposed to not believe him. Burrows has a history of this stuff. I am not "into" it but understand it happens. What is "the case" though? In the reports it says "during a heated exchange"...so why does Tootoo get to participate and then cry foul? What did HE say? I tend to want to look at how he handled it (poorly) because he didn't exercise anger management and wait for a whistle to address it. That's a problem and I do feel he's simply trying to deflect away from that. And, obviously, it's working. Edited November 9, 2015 by debluvscanucks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alt kilgore Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Whether it was real or not, Burrows is an unnecessary distraction. We turned the page on other players with negative baggage in Cooke, Luongo, Hodgson, Kesler and Kassian. Even if we win because Burrows smack talked the other team, how can you be proud of a dishonourable victory. I think it's time for Burrows to go.Seriously I think some of you are still living in clutch's 2008 world. Burrows is a long ways from "negative baggage" on the Canucks, if he ever was. He has proven himself over and over and over; a loyal team member who will do anything to win, from scoring "clutch" goals to trash talking to get under the skin of opponents. My gawd, its astounding how some of you are just hanging on the the edge just wishing and hoping for Burrows, one of the best Canucks in their history, to screw up so you can spew your hate at him. i expect it from fans of other teams but it never fails to amaze me hearing it from so-called Canuck fans.If Tootoo has really changed his life in regards to addiction etc..you would think he would laugh it off, that it wouldn't have the same bite (!) as it would have before his treatment. This is even assuming he was even taunted to the degree he whined about, which I doubt.Tootoo is riding this redemption arch, has a book out, and like he does on the ice, ( he threw out a sucker punch on Burrows with this accusation to deflect criticism. I'm sure he knows how Burrows has had a reputation, and was an easy target. I am sure many other players, especially "agitators" on other teams have said similar or worse on the ice to him. And sorry, but what is said on the ice, is NOT THE SAME THING as saying the same thing on the street. Its just not. Every player knows this. Not every "fan" does apparently.So a player that has a much longer history of on-ice cowardly physically violent behavoir is the angel, and Burrows who uses mostly words to unbalance his opponents is worse? One can mess with someones health and career, the other just upsets a player mentally in that moment. Compare their suspension histories. There is no comparison.Ask Dorsett who stepped in. He knows Tootoo from before he played for the Canucks:http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/eye-on-hockey/21747122/derek-dorsett-wants-jordin-tootoo-suspended-calls-him-irrelevant“You think you're fighting a 6-5 Ericsson, and then Jordin Tootoo comes in and sucker punches you. But that's just Jordin Tootoo. You expect those kind of things from him.” said Dorsett, via Shawn Mitchell of the Columbus Dispatch. “Ericsson and I were backing away. Tootoo was just being himself, being the cheap player that he is and coming in swinging."In my eyes, that should be a suspension. Those are the type of things that they're trying to get out of the game. But he's an irrelevant player, so it doesn't even matter.”Actually, that's probably one of the nicest things that an opposing player has ever said about Tootoo. Including MIller: 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nex is my ex Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Its ironic that the guy that made this post is named "clutch" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-DLC- Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 (edited) Tootoo is a (reformed) addict, has some baggage in his life and plays on the edge. Based on these factors, I have no place to question his character. He's done things to correct his life and move forward and play the sport he loves, as any of us would hope he would strive to be able to do. Burrows has a heavy rep for running his mouth in an unflattering way. If it quacks like a duck...He plays over the edge at times. And this was one of them. Reputations aren't always the whole truth and nothing but...they generate steam and momentum when blowhards grab ahold (Ron McLean). Happens. Sure he runs his mouth....did you not see the New Jersey sewer rats doing that? So that's the issue for me....many do. So why do we keep singling out this one guy? Edited November 9, 2015 by debluvscanucks 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-DLC- Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 (edited) And Jack I do respect your opinion but, in having worked in the field.... Often addiction issues go hand in hand with other issues. Especially when there is "baggage". So to remove the substance is part of it - yes, but there are other things that also require attention in an overhaul "life change" way. Anger management and how to respond to situations is part of that. Playing "on the edge" (over) and being, at times, out of control with rage means there's likely more work to do and that he hasn't got that part firmly in his grasp yet. And, can't be excused because of his past....he must still be held accountable for the role he plays. To be honest, as a human being I pull for him in that journey and hope he heals. There's a double standard because, hey, we like the tough guy in hockey. But if we're going to take it away from "what happens in hockey" and start following up beyond that, then storming the ice prior to a whistle is part of that. The reasons "why" don't negate that action and I feel the distraction factor plays a huge role here. He's out of control at times. And if we only look at what set him off, we do him no favours. With that, I do hope that Burr didn't go "there" beyond a yo momma, superficial type jab. I can't see him going to the dark place of suicide, etc. because this team has experienced things that should have triggered an empathy that wouldn't ever allow them to. And I don't think he did/would. Edited November 9, 2015 by debluvscanucks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puckdontlie Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 My gawd, its astounding how some of you are just hanging on the the edge just wishing and hoping for Burrows, one of the best Canucks in their history, to screw up so you can spew your hate at him. That's not true at all. If Daniel Sedin went out today and said the n word or someone talked smack about Rypien then I'd be all over them too. On the flip side, there seems to be a lot wishing and hoping for Tootoo to screw up so that we can confirm that once a screw up, always a screw up. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-DLC- Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 (edited) That's not true at all. If Daniel Sedin went out today and said the n word or someone talked smack about Rypien then I'd be all over them too. On the flip side, there seems to be a lot wishing and hoping for Tootoo to screw up so that we can confirm that once a screw up, always a screw up. Yet there are no reports or proof that Burr did that. So perhaps it's ALL a little premature. You're already making assumptions and comparisons based on....no information. That seems a little unfair. He could have said something as generic as "go home to your mother's basement". So let's not react on what we imagine he said. And keep in mind that people often embellish in order to make their case when they're in trouble. Edited November 9, 2015 by debluvscanucks 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puckdontlie Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Yet there are no reports or proof that Burr did that. So perhaps it's ALL a little premature. You're already making assumptions and comparisons based on....no information. That seems a little unfair.Well Tootoo would be one hell of a liar and the worst kind of scum if it's not true. If there's an investigation and third parties like the guys who ran the penalty box say it never happened then I'll stand corrected. But I believe there's a 90% chance that what Burrows said was pretty ugly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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