Hotdawg Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 LOL @ angry uncut dudes ITT how does it feel, boys, being a woman's second choice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super19 Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 LOL. I suggest you use your college library card and access some papers on the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Evil Twin Posted July 13, 2012 Author Share Posted July 13, 2012 To me, the valid points are is that it inhibits the individuals choice to have foreskin, and that it is a source of some temporary pain to the boy being circumcised. as far as the studies of "child abuse", and symptoms of increased sensitivity to pain, depression, low self-esteem and etc being linked to the snip... is complete bogus. honestly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super19 Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 And you're qualified to dismiss qualified professionals on what grounds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthNinja Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Which ones would you propose we tackle first? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duodenum Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 " Evidence has also started to accumulate that male circumcision may result in lifelong physical, sexual, and sometimes psychological harm as well" A lack of foreskin has not only made me oblivious to the feeling of having a foreskin, but it's also making me oblivious to how harmed I am physically, sexually, and maybe even psychologically as well! This is huge man, I'm freaking out now, get me that number for the hotline /sarcasm PS: Now you know how I feel when you do the same to scholars of Islamic knowledge + I value qualified professionals of any grounds but this.. ^ that whole nonsense you agree with, is stupid. You do have valid points in your argument - i'm saying it again. that's not one of them though to me at least, and all the other circumcised males I know unless we are all in the closet with our emotions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthNinja Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 And you're qualified to dismiss qualified professionals on what grounds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 LOL @ angry uncut dudes ITT how does it feel, boys, being a woman's second choice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotdawg Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Evil Twin Posted July 13, 2012 Author Share Posted July 13, 2012 The thing is that there are also qualified professionals who have stated otherwise and so many people have had the procedure done are living enriching, happy and satisfying lives without even giving a thought to their circumcision. We could take the balanced approach here as declared by the professional association of physicians, which is not to recommend routine circumcision and not to prohibit it as well. Here is also an excerpt from an article in the Journal of Medical Ethics that furthers this perspective: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 You keep saying that, but you haven't made a case for why it's any different from female genital mutilation. Well, besides the fact that they don't have the same genitalia. You like to talk about emotional arguments, so I trust you recognize the irony of this situation. Your posts are cop out after cop out, with "it's ridiculous!" thrown in between. Let's review the facts: genital mutilation serves no medical purpose for both genders. It alters the way the organ functions for both genders. Genital mutilation is accepted practice, for both genders. It is done against the child's will, for both genders. It has lasting impact, for both genders. It stuns me that you don't see it as child abuse. Male genital mutilation is inflicting physical harm on a child for no reason. This isn't an emotional argument, it is exactly what happens. It's not ongoing, but that doesn't negate what it is. So, can you tell me why Child Services shouldn't come and take my kids away for cutting off their earlobes? Altered Sexual Behaviours Apart from reducing sexual sensation and pleasure (Bensley & Boyle, 2001; Gemmell & Boyle, 2001; Immerman & Mackey, 1998; Milos & Macris, 1994; Money & Davison, 1983; O'Hara & O'Hara, 1999), circumcision also leads to changes in sexual practices. For example, Laumann, Masi, and Zuckerman (1997) reported that circumcision is associated with more elaborate sexual behaviours. It is possible that reduced sexual sensation may impel some circumcised men to engage in more elaborate sexual practices in order to attain sexual gratification. In regard to unsafe sex practices, Bensley and Boyle (2001) found that circumcised men were significantly less likely to use condoms than were genitally intact men. Presumably, use of a condom reduces sexual sensation, which may be of somewhat greater concern to circumcised men (cf. Gemmell & Boyle, 2001; Van Howe, 1999). Other Psychological Considerations in Circumcised Men In Gemmell and Boyle's (2001) survey, involuntary circumcision impacted negatively on various psychological measures. They found that as compared with genitally intact men, circumcised men were often unhappy about being circumcised, experienced significant anger, sadness, feeling incomplete, cheated, hurt, concerned, frustrated, abnormal, and violated (cf. Hammond, 1999). They also found that circumcised men reported lower self-esteem than did genitally intact respondents. Rhinehart (1999) stated that psychological problems were almost universally noted by his selfselected circumcised respondents. These included reports of a sense of personal powerlessness, fears of being overpowered and victimised, lack of trust, a sense of vulnerability to violent attack, guardedness in relationships, reluctance to have relationships with women, defensiveness, diminished sense of masculinity, feeling damaged, sense of reduced penile size or amputation, low self-esteem, shame about not "measuring up," anger and violence towards women, irrational rage reactions, addictions and dependencies, difficulties in establishing intimate relationships, emotional numbing, a need for greater intensity in sexual experiences, decreased intimacy, decreased ability to communicate, as well as feelings of not being understood. Hammond’s (1997) sample of circumcised men reported emotional harm (83%), physical harm (82%), general psychological harm (75%), and low self-esteem (74%). The circumcised men frequently reported feeling mutilated (62%), unwhole (61%), resentful (60%), abnormal/unnatural (60%), that one's human rights had been infringed (60%), angry (54%), frustrated (53%), violated (50%), inferior to genitally intact males (47%), impeded sexually (43%), and betrayed by one’s parents (34%). Similar findings emerged from a larger sample of 546 circumcised men studied by Hammond (1999). Conclusion The body of empirical evidence reviewed here suggests that there is severe pain at the time of circumcision and shortly thereafter in unanaesthetised boys, as well as heightened pain sensitivity for some considerable period of time afterwards. Evidence has also started to accumulate that male circumcision may result in lifelong physical, sexual, and sometimes psychological harm as well. A variety of forces are converging from fields as diverse as psychology, medicine, law, medical ethics, and human rights, all questioning the advisability of circumcision which originated millenia ago and was promoted in the Victorian era. As Chamberlain (1998) pointed out, "parents are not warned that their infants will endure severe pain and will be deprived of a functional part of their sexual anatomy for life." Non-therapeutic circumcision of male minors is now being questioned by legal and ethics scholars in an unprecedented way. The mental health community can play an important role in the growing debate about circumcision. We encourage closer examination of this issue and even more empirical research into the psychosexual sequelae associated with circumcision. http://epublications...ontext=hss_pubs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Evil Twin Posted July 13, 2012 Author Share Posted July 13, 2012 Can you please stop with the "scientific studies". There are just as many studies that show improved or no change in sexual function. Many studies show increased stamina, decreased risk of STI infection, and increased preference by women. There are plenty of people who are circumcized, and as far as I can tell it's the ones that aren't that are telling them they should feel violated and abused. It happens when your young enough that you are physically incapable of remembering it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 "Wah wah stop presenting evidence, it challenges my perception!" Like a little girl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
لني Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 really? The problem is your cherry picking random evidence. I could just as easily spam this thread with opposing studies. And I'm not going to expect you to understand this next point, but your last posting wasn't even a scientific study. It was a review paper written by people with a specialty in liberal arts. Either way the German government has squashed the decision. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18833145 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Evil Twin Posted July 13, 2012 Author Share Posted July 13, 2012 really? The problem is your cherry picking random evidence. I could just as easily spam this thread with opposing studies. And I'm not going to expect you to understand this next point, but your last posting wasn't even a scientific study. It was a review paper written by people with a specialty in liberal arts. Either way the German government has squashed the decision. http://www.bbc.co.uk...europe-18833145 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buggernut Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 How is it child abuse? His choice? Wrong - I'm his father and until he's of a certain age I make his choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 He who spams the most wins. Aka the googler is mightier than the sword. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Will he have the option to reverse that choice when he reaches that age? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 He can try. I guess if he's in the US he can always try to sue his parents. I doubt that would fly in any court though. Does any child have the ability to reverse any choices their parents made for them before they were legally allowed to make those choices on their own? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I♥Wellwood Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 I've always found it funny that people think female circumcision is cruel (which it is) but male circumcision isn't. It isn't your body, so why should it be your decision ? Both also reduce pleasure. A teeny bit off topic but I once was in a heated discussion about circumcision (the guy was for it and I was against it) and I accidentally blurted out "well are you circumcised?" in front of the entire class... he actually answered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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