The Wonderful World of Drugs: Jon Bon Jovi's Daughter's Heroin Overdose

[nucklehead]

Heroin is nasty, but not all 'drugs' are bad.

Two of my best friends use to/currently do drugs, one smokes pot, he's doing fine. My other friend moved to Vernon and started selling crack and snorting coke, he did terrible things that I will not repeat here. Eventually he met his current girlfriend who already had a small daughter, he turned his life around for them and is now clean and working a good job (linesman for power company out in Alberta) and is expecting his first son soon.

So in summary;

Pot = not bad.

Heroin, coke, crack = very bad.

[SterlingArcher]

Not true. People OD more often than you might think, and survive all the time. Ask to a paramedic or someone who works in a hospital. in fact most long time junkies have OD'd at least a couple times. I've been there and seen it happen to friends. The deadly part is when no one is around to call medical help.

[SkeeterHansen]

"She wasn't listening to anyone. Sometimes her friends wouldn't hear from her for weeks. We were all scared for her but didn't know what to do," the friend said.

Shoulda listened to her when she said "It's My Life"....

On a serious note, thanks for sharing Deb. I had a sister who battled addiction, it's truly a harrowing experience.

[Navyblue]

Read more: http://www.nydailyne...6#ixzz2CIt9MMmB

She was lucky to pull through this...playing with fire. As someone who has watched a loved one battle drug addiction, I can tell you that it takes a serious toll on family members who feel helpless and, at times, guilty. I stood in the trenches with my brother, who was near the brink of death when my Mother's terminal illness was the push that got him into rehab...he had a moment of clarity and said "enough, I want to be here for her". He will be accepting his 7 year "clean and sober" cake in the Spring. I'm so proud and happy to have him back.

But, during his drug use he almost put us over the edge....he'd been badly beaten by dealers, had them calling my parent's home (threatening them as well) and my Dad often met them in back alleys to pay off thousands in drug debts. I followed him once (he didn't know), ready to ?...as I sat in the dark parking lot, I wondered that aloud - "what the hell will I do if something awful goes down?". But I was considering my options as I sat there in my car, across the street in a parking lot watching my Father hand over retirement savings to these thugs. He feared that if he didn't, they'd follow through on their promises.

My brother was always a really awesome individual. He was a gifted artist, a really talented baseball pitcher and a super kind, funny guy. He didn't plan on becoming addicted to (crack?...he never would tell me and, to this day, says it doesn't matter what it was). No one could believe what was happening to him, as he changed into someone that pushed friends away and became jumpy, nervous, impatient and loud. It snuck up on us and he was in the full throes of things before we really knew what happened. Ha, we thought he was suffering the after affects of a ruptured appendix that nearly killed him. In hindsight, we've put all the puzzle pieces together to recognize what was happening at the time - we completely missed it in the moment, as he was spiraling downward. Lost his house, wife and his child for a time (they're currently rebuilding that relationship). He's back to hunting and fishing full time, and is a successful foreman of a demolition team. Has bought himself a new truck and is happier than I've ever seen him. But he almost didn't make it and was a far cry from any of this at his lowest point. I remember it well, as he turned on me...something he'd never done.

He always loved a beer with the guys - was easy going and the life of the party. But a moment where he took a hit of something swallowed him up and nearly took him from us. He says it was just like that - one hit and he was "in".

I spent a decade working the front lines of an alcohol and drug abuse center - but even I missed the initial signs, as my brother was good at explanations of what was making him the way he was. We bought it, hook line and sinker and, by the time we realized that it was drug abuse that was changing him, it was too late. Not that family members can do much, as it has to be the decision of the addict to change. What we could have done differently was not enable him, which we did.

If there's a message here, it's make good decisions because a split second one could change your life for ever. Or, even worse, take it from you.

Sorry for the TLDR post, but I feel so strongly about this. And it's a good topic of discussion, as no one is immune.

[Buddhas Hand]

For the record inanimate objects or substances aren't the problem. People, specifically people with addiction issues/addictive personalities are the issue. You're not an addict or alcoholic simply because you aren't one. It really has far more to do with the person than the substance itself. ToMapleLaughs being a good example. Obviously they don't have an addictive personality type where as another person having done the same drugs in the same amounts may be living in the DTES right now...or worse.

Glad to hear everyone's family members and friends are doing well dealing with their addictions though. Hopefully the young lady can get the help she needs to help herself as well.

[Jai604]

Thanks for sharing, Deb.

I know what it's like somewhat. Spent years binge-drinking all the time, and almost dropped over the edge with hard drugs as well, but thankfully a friend of mine set me straight and I dodged that bullet.

[-DLC-]

Thanks for the input, guys. And for sharing some of your, similar stories. What I know is that it's like a game of Russian Roulette...you may or may not be that person who can't turn back. And yes, some are predisposed to addiction, whether it be through genetics and family history or other related factors that are environmental and familiar. I do know that crack and heroin are two drugs that appear to be have the great likelihood of ending up as long term problems and aren't generally used in a social or occasional manner....I have no numbers to support this, but have years of experience in seeing it, first hand. That once people begin dabbling in these two, they end up going down that path that's difficult to free yourself from.

I grew up in Steveston when the fishing industry was booming and many of the younger fishermen got into cocaine and heroin. Money was flying around at the time, as it was a lucrative industry. Guys had lots of spare time in between openings and some got into this scene, that went hand in hand with drinking.

We lost 5 guys from the same street in a matter of about 5 years, either directly or indirectly through heroin and coke use. A few were od's, some horrible suicides. These were really great people (mostly older brothers of my friends) from good families...they just ended up there, in that world.

My own family history involves a lot of addiction (on my Mother and Father's side), so we have the strikes against us. The climate I grew up in was one where drugs were readily available all around me and most of my friends were part of that. I've tried most of what doesn't include injecting myself with something but, luckily, was able to pull myself away when falling into that hole. Somehow recognized early on that "this isn't good". I know how it can escalate and suck you in very quickly...cocaine was particularly "attractive" to people like me who liked to be in "control" but also ended up at the parties where it was prevalent. Before I had kids, I almost got caught up in that vicious cycle.

I've always felt that discussion and awareness are really great things....I've been extremely open with my kids about drugs and alcohol. I try not to do the "don't do drugs, they're bad" lectures because there's an element of intrigue in those as some will wonder "why?" and have the urge to challenge that in finding out for themselves. I've taken my daughter (who was vulnerable at the time) to an NA meeting to see that these were real people involved - good/nice people who were doing not so nice things. She immediately connected and that seemed to have much more of an impact than anything I could say to her.

For those in this thread who have teetered on that edge - thank you, for having the courage to share your experiences. There's a stigma and it can be taboo to reveal such things, as people can become judgmental and harsh in some situations, but that comes from ignorance. Those people can learn something from listening. And anyone's life can change in a heartbeat without warning, including theirs....no one tries drugs thinking "hey, I'll become an addict", but it happens. It's not about class, status or being above or better than anyone else, because addition doesn't care who you are.

With some of the back room drugs being concocted these days, overdoses are a very strong factor as anything can be thrown into the mix. So even a first time user can meet a horrible fate in a moment of carelessness while out having fun. Russian roulette, that's how I best describe the whole deal.

[Guest Gumballthechewy]

Unless he does it for himself he is destined to relapse.

[TheAce]

"She wasn't listening to anyone. Sometimes her friends wouldn't hear from her for weeks. We were all scared for her but didn't know what to do," the friend said.

Shoulda listened to her when she said "It's My Life"....

On a serious note, thanks for sharing Deb. I had a sister who battled addiction, it's truly a harrowing experience.

[Darth Kane]

Heroin is nasty, but not all 'drugs' are bad.

Two of my best friends use to/currently do drugs, one smokes pot, he's doing fine. My other friend moved to Vernon and started selling crack and snorting coke, he did terrible things that I will not repeat here. Eventually he met his current girlfriend who already had a small daughter, he turned his life around for them and is now clean and working a good job (linesman for power company out in Alberta) and is expecting his first son soon.

So in summary;

Pot = not bad.

Heroin, coke, crack = very bad.

[Guest Gumballthechewy]

I wouldn't necessarily say this, or at least say it diffrerently. Any substance has the potential to be abused and this includes Pot.

[-DLC-]

Here's what I know about pot....the whole culture of doing drugs starts somewhere and usually people don't just jump in to the harder stuff, it starts innocently enough and then progresses. Not always, but in instances that I've seen that's how it happens for the most part. That it's during episodes of drinking/smoking/partying that other things get introduced into the mix. Doesn't mean pot smokers end up doing anything more - but it's usually more accessible by way of the contacts that they have and people they associate with. That people who don't smoke pot, drink and party aren't as likely to have drugs as readily offered or available to them as those already participating to lesser degrees.

Every person I know (there are many) who ended up doing hard drugs started off with pot and alcohol and that progressed along the way. They didn't just "experiment" with heroin or coke as their first experience - they'd been regularly exposed to the climate of drugs/alcohol prior to trying these other drugs. Not to say that pot makes people "crave" something more - it doesn't. But the mindset makes it more acceptable to graduate from pot in trying something "new"...the groundwork's been laid for that and it happens more easily that way. Just my thoughts on it.

[Buddhas Hand]

Thanks for the input, guys. And for sharing some of your, similar stories. What I know is that it's like a game of Russian Roulette...you may or may not be that person who can't turn back. And yes, some are predisposed to addiction, whether it be through genetics and family history or other related factors that are environmental and familiar. I do know that crack and heroin are two drugs that appear to be have the great likelihood of ending up as long term problems and aren't generally used in a social or occasional manner....I have no numbers to support this, but have years of experience in seeing it, first hand. That once people begin dabbling in these two, they end up going down that path that's difficult to free yourself from.

I grew up in Steveston when the fishing industry was booming and many of the younger fishermen got into cocaine and heroin. Money was flying around at the time, as it was a lucrative industry. Guys had lots of spare time in between openings and some got into this scene, that went hand in hand with drinking.

We lost 5 guys from the same street in a matter of about 5 years, either directly or indirectly through heroin and coke use. A few were od's, some horrible suicides. These were really great people (mostly older brothers of my friends) from good families...they just ended up there, in that world.

My own family history involves a lot of addiction (on my Mother and Father's side), so we have the strikes against us. The climate I grew up in was one where drugs were readily available all around me and most of my friends were part of that. I've tried most of what doesn't include injecting myself with something but, luckily, was able to pull myself away when falling into that hole. Somehow recognized early on that "this isn't good". I know how it can escalate and suck you in very quickly...cocaine was particularly "attractive" to people like me who liked to be in "control" but also ended up at the parties where it was prevalent. Before I had kids, I almost got caught up in that vicious cycle.

I've always felt that discussion and awareness are really great things....I've been extremely open with my kids about drugs and alcohol. I try not to do the "don't do drugs, they're bad" lectures because there's an element of intrigue in those as some will wonder "why?" and have the urge to challenge that in finding out for themselves. I've taken my daughter (who was vulnerable at the time) to an NA meeting to see that these were real people involved - good/nice people who were doing not so nice things. She immediately connected and that seemed to have much more of an impact than anything I could say to her.

For those in this thread who have teetered on that edge - thank you, for having the courage to share your experiences. There's a stigma and it can be taboo to reveal such things, as people can become judgmental and harsh in some situations, but that comes from ignorance. Those people can learn something from listening. And anyone's life can change in a heartbeat without warning, including theirs....no one tries drugs thinking "hey, I'll become an addict", but it happens. It's not about class, status or being above or better than anyone else, because addition doesn't care who you are.

With some of the back room drugs being concocted these days, overdoses are a very strong factor as anything can be thrown into the mix. So even a first time user can meet a horrible fate in a moment of carelessness while out having fun. Russian roulette, that's how I best describe the whole deal.

[aGENT]

Here's what I know about pot....the whole culture of doing drugs starts somewhere and usually people don't just jump in to the harder stuff, it starts innocently enough and then progresses. Not always, but in instances that I've seen that's how it happens for the most part. That it's during episodes of drinking/smoking/partying that other things get introduced into the mix. Doesn't mean pot smokers end up doing anything more - but it's usually more accessible by way of the contacts that they have and people they associate with. That people who don't smoke pot, drink and party aren't as likely to have drugs as readily offered or available to them as those already participating to lesser degrees.

Every person I know (there are many) who ended up doing hard drugs started off with pot and alcohol and that progressed along the way. They didn't just "experiment" with heroin or coke as their first experience - they'd been regularly exposed to the climate of drugs/alcohol prior to trying these other drugs. Not to say that pot makes people "crave" something more - it doesn't. But the mindset makes it more acceptable to graduate from pot in trying something "new"...the groundwork's been laid for that and it happens more easily that way. Just my thoughts on it.

[SkeeterHansen]

Pretty rude of her not to respond to her friends when they were all saying " I'll be there for you"

[Buggernut]

Pretty rude of her not to respond to her friends when they were all saying " I'll be there for you"

[Buddhas Hand]

Going to have to disagree. I'm sticking with it's up to the individuals propensity for addiction as well as some level of education/common sense in regards to the risk of drugs. Just because I'm at the grocery store doesn't mean I HAVE to buy ice cream, chips and pop. I can have self control and make healthier choices for myself with maybe a small treat for dessert instead. It's really no different.

I smoked a LOT of pot in my youth as well as frequently drank heavily (socially...and I have a high tolerance). Not because I was addicted but because I was young, dumb and having fun...lol. I've also dabbled with occasional other drug use (mushrooms, ecstasy etc). I've been offered both cocaine and crack numerous times and declined to partake because I had the common sense and education to do so. I was a recreational user of substances because I was having fun and I knew what the risks were with "heavier" drugs and didn't want to risk becoming something more than a recreational user who was simply having fun. I was also dabbling with rare/occasional ecstasy use back when it was actually ecstasy and you didn't have the one in five chance of dying you today it seems. If I was in that period of my life now I doubt I'd touch the stuff.

So talk to your kids. Make sure they know the risks and especially if you have addiction history in your families keep a close eye on the signs would be my advice. Generally speaking I don't believe occasional recreational use of natural substances is all that risky so long as the individual can keep it recreational and not let it affect other aspects of their life negatively (relationships, work/school etc).

[-DLC-]

Going to have to disagree. I'm sticking with it's up to the individuals propensity for addiction as well as some level of education/common sense in regards to the risk of drugs. Just because I'm at the grocery store doesn't mean I HAVE to buy ice cream, chips and pop. I can have self control and make healthier choices for myself with maybe a small treat for dessert instead. It's really no different.

I smoked a LOT of pot in my youth as well as frequently drank heavily (socially...and I have a high tolerance). Not because I was addicted but because I was young, dumb and having fun...lol. I've also dabbled with occasional other drug use (mushrooms, ecstasy etc). I've been offered both cocaine and crack numerous times and declined to partake because I had the common sense and education to do so. I was a recreational user of substances because I was having fun and I knew what the risks were with "heavier" drugs and didn't want to risk becoming something more than a recreational user who was simply having fun. I was also dabbling with rare/occasional ecstasy use back when it was actually ecstasy and you didn't have the one in five chance of dying you today it seems. If I was in that period of my life now I doubt I'd touch the stuff.

So talk to your kids. Make sure they know the risks and especially if you have addiction history in your families keep a close eye on the signs would be my advice. Generally speaking I don't believe occasional recreational use of natural substances is all that risky so long as the individual can keep it recreational and not let it affect other aspects of their life negatively (relationships, work/school etc).

Oh, for sure...don't dispute this at all. I'm just saying that the exposure to other drugs is more likely to happen this way (not necessarily the addiction, itself). I know, first hand, that addiction will tug at some and not at others....my brother and I are prime examples of that. But I feel that the game of Russian roulette that I compare it to is more likely to be played by someone already dabbling in drinking/smoking than someone who is not. From what I've witnessed that's how it's gone.

You smoked/drank a lot but were lucky that you didn't have this predisposition for it to lead elsewhere or it might have snuck up on you too. That's the thing - you don't get the luxury of that when you play the game...no one chooses to be addicted and everyone smokes/drinks at first "not because they're addicted, but because they're young, dumb and having fun". However, some of those unlucky few WILL become addicted by doing the very thing that you were. So you were one of the lucky ones but, for some, they get caught up in it before they really know what's happening. It's not a "boom, you're an addict" thing....it festers for awhile first.

Don't really know what point I'm trying to make, except that it isn't always a cut and dry "choice" that's made or immediately apparent and, as you've confirmed, just out having fun means being faced with the options. Some will decline, some will try things without any further repurcussion and others will fall victim to addiction. But it's putting themselves in that situation that's presented the options.

It isn't necessarily stupid people making these decision (although they are dumb choices at the time). This is why there's such a stigma attached - people say "just stop, it's that easy". You did ectasy but could have easily ended up being one of the unlucky ones, so dabbling and experimenting for fun was a risk taken and you beat the game.

Others won't be so lucky.

There's a reason people in recovery abstain from everything and disconnect from people and places they once knew....because the lifestyle has to change. Which supports my idea that if you don't step into it in the first place, you won't be confronted with any of it. People who do risk falling.

This particular statement: "I don't believe occasional recreational use of natural substances is all that risky so long as the individual can keep it recreational and not let it affect other aspects of their life negatively" just isn't that easy and, if it was, we wouldn't have any addicts on the planet. Everyone goes into it thinking they will/can, but it just doesn't play out that way. So when you involve yourself in "occasional recreational use of" any substance you're opening that door.

I, too, believe in open communication....God, my poor kids have heard, seen it all. But, in that, they've made informed decisions that weren't based on fears that they were hammered over the head with. They've seen how it plays out and there's no better life lesson than that. I've never sheltered them from anything because I feel that, with the right parental intervention and guidance, anything can be used as a life lesson. The rest is up to them.

[Guest Gumballthechewy]

Going to have to disagree. I'm sticking with it's up to the individuals propensity for addiction as well as some level of education/common sense in regards to the risk of drugs. Just because I'm at the grocery store doesn't mean I HAVE to buy ice cream, chips and pop. I can have self control and make healthier choices for myself with maybe a small treat for dessert instead. It's really no different.

[Buddhas Hand]

I had to edit it down due to length (I don't like posting long quotes) but I agree with your post wholeheartedly. In the end it comes down to you, you say yes or no, you can't blame one drug for getting you to use another, the only one you have to blame is yourself.