canucklehead44 Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Who are some of the Burke/Nonis/Gillis you feel should have gotten more of an opportunity to prove their worth? My criteria is one season OR less than 50 games played. Here's my list: Mike Brown #1 - Ok , he did get in a fight with Dan Cloutier, but Mike Brown was one tough customer who was willing to fight anyone (including his teammates, apparently). At 6'4, 220lbs he was an intimidating physical force. One thing you might not remember about Brown is that he did have some skill. As a rookie in the AHL he scored 13 goals, 31 points in 71 games along with 284 penalty minutes. Not earth shattering numbers but not bad for a rookie goon. in 16 games with the Canucks Brown posted a +1 rating, 0 points, and a whopping 77 penalty minutes. With maturity he could have developed into a Thorntonesque 4th line tough guy. Todd Warriner - He joined the Canucks as a 27 year old after a lack lustre career. Considered a major bust (drafted 4th overall) Warriner did have a nice combination of size and skill. He played on some bad teams and wasn't really given much chance in a scoring role due to early struggles. He compiled 16 points in 44 games with a +2 rating with the Canucks. I remember hearing about how he was the most talented guy on the team in practice (his shot was apparently better than Naslund's) but he couldn't seem to get it all together when it mattered. Brandon Reid - He was impressive during a short stint. He was consistently one of our best minor league players and his speed was top notch. It would have been interesting to see how he would have done given the opportunity in a top 6 role. Martin Grenier - A hulking defenseman, Grenier was a second round pick who joined the Canucks as a 22 year old. In 38 games with the Moose he scored 5 goals, 9 points and was a +6 to go along with 145 PIMs. With the Canucks he had 1 goal in 7 games to go along with a +3 rating and 9 PIM. Grenier's size, toughness, junior league points (nearly a ppg player his last year in the Q), age and draft position made him an interesting player to say the least. He never amounted to anything, but maybe he would have done better in our system. He was traded along with Umberger for Rucinsky. Ugh. Sven Butenscheon - Sven was a monster with the Moose, scoring 15 goals and 22 assists in 60 games. He was also a +5 and used as the team's number 1 dman (Shea Weber of the AHL?). He didn't get much of an opportunity with the Canucks, but his combination of size and two-way abilities could have sparked a late but successful NHL career. Sven left for the DEL. Anson Carter - I would have liked to see how he would have done in his second year with the Twins. After years of not being able to find a second line, shoot first, right handed winger that works with the Twins, Nonis managed to score (no pun intended) Anson Carter for 1 million with a return of 33 goals. Despite Carter's success, Nonis cheaped out and opted to go with Jan Bulis and Taylor Pyatt for our top 6. Pyatt was alright but Bulis was brutal. He also spent 1.1 million on Marc Chouinard who was quite possibly the worst forward to wear the constipated whale in the post-lockout era. Matt Pettinger - Good speed, solid defensively, and showed a bit of a scoring touch. I think he could have been a Hansen/Higgins type player given the chance. 12 points in 29 games with the Canucks. Kris Beech - 1 goal, 1 assist in 4 games, +1. Not bad for short a call-up. He got sent down and picked-up off waivers by Pittsburgh. Beech is a BC native with size (6'2, 210lbs) and was a 7th overall pick. He was still relatively young at 26 years old. At the point we sent him down he had scored 6 goals, 5 assists in 20 games and was a +4. I thought at the time that maybe he was coming around, since he was on pace for 24 goals. He played 5 more games in the NHL before heading overseas. Mike Brown #2 - Brown is a speedy pugilist with adept defensive ability (and an awesome mustache to boot!). He would be an awesome fit on our current team since our structure doesn't support goons who can't skate or play a lick of defense (80% defensive zone starts). Mike Weaver - Weaver was solid with the Canucks, but has become an absolute beast defensively with Florida. Ossi Vaananen - I thrilled when we acquired him but he ended up playing only 6 games before heading to Europe the following year. Jason Krog/Jason Jaffray - I put these two in the same category because both were really good minor league players who had limited opportunities in NHL scoring roles. Jaffray in particular played well on our 4th line and was a huge part of our minor league affiliate for many years. Sergei Shirokov - The Shirokov treatment annoyed me on so many levels. He was an elite level prospect who many of else felt would never come over to North America. When he left the KHL Canucks.com went into a frenzy. He played well in the pre-season but struggled in his first 6 game stint and was sent down for seasoning. As a rookie in the AHL, Shirokov was second on the Moose in points and tied first in goals. As the leading scorer of the Moose in year 2 he earned a 2 game call-up. Despite scoring in his first game and generating multiple scoring chances he was benched in his second game and sent down. Shirokov had a dominant year in the KHL after leaving the organization. Michael Grabner - He looked excellent on a line with Kesler and Raymond. I freaked out when he was traded. With the Isles, Grabner scored 32 goals in 2010-2011 even strength and on the penalty kill. Only Corey Perry was better at 36 goals (he scored 50 total that year). Last season many considered him to be a disappointment although in that same category he still ranked top 60 in the league, beating out the following high-ticket players: Lupul, Doan, Alfredsson, Vanek, Simmonds, Elias, and Landeskog. Mike Duco - The player who we traded Shirokov for was quite effective during his short stint with the Canucks. He played an abrasive style and was very noticeable despite getting limited minutes. He finished his tenure with 2 assists, 17 hits, a fight and a +1 rating over 6 games. Byron Bitz - I was excited when we signed Bitz and despite coming off of a long injury he played well. 4 points, 2 fights (wins), 20 hits and a +2 is more than you can expect from a 4th liner earning 700K per year. Too bad we didn't resign him. Victor Oreskovich - Oreo's combination of speed, size, and forechecking ability made him a formidable 4th liner. He was still young and had shown some offense in lower levels. Cody Hodgson - What could have been... 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-AJ- Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Anson Carter wanted a buttload of money that he wasn't worth. He played one season with the Sedins and he thought he was a star in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksSayEh Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Dale Weise > Bitz, Volpatti & Duco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Doughty Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Jason King... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Some of these I actually agree with you on, some I disagree, some I have no comment/don't know enough about them. I'll just go through the one's I have a comment on, on your list quickly then give my list in short form. Mike Brown #1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tingleydane Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 I share the sediment with grabner . I still remember whare I was when I read we traded his rights. I stood up in the lunch room at work and shouted no f*ckin way and when 150 flames fans looked over ( I live in calgary) I said your lucky the canucks just lost a great prospect....followed by applauese. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucklehead44 Posted January 5, 2013 Author Share Posted January 5, 2013 Jason King... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucklehead44 Posted January 5, 2013 Author Share Posted January 5, 2013 Some of these I actually agree with you on, some I disagree, some I have no comment/don't know enough about them. I'll just go through the one's I have a comment on, on your list quickly then give my list in short form. don't know much about him (when he was here), but I like him, he's huge, hits hard and skates well. He fights and stands up for teammates. Would have looked great on our 4th line now IMO. He wanted to much money, the Sedin's made him look better than he actually was, it would have been nice to keep him around but he isn't the 30 goals scorer the Sedin's made him. I'm fine with letting him go. (Not fine with who we got to replace him though) Absoluetly, still kinda bent out of shape about this, was never given a fair shot, I was really hopeful he would finally give him one in 11/12 but then he left so we traded his rights, he played well enough in 10/11 (And had demonstrated enough in the AHL) to be given a serious shot at a top 6 spot IMO. A classic example of poor asset managment, I think he could have been a good top 6 winger and still do. I agree in that I really liked him, I thought we saw flashes of brilliance in 09/10 but there were just as many times we saw inconsistentcy. The deal made sense for us at the time, He wouldn't have been able to crack the top 6 (No one would have kept him in favor of Raymond or Sammuelsson after career seasons) So I understand why we made the move, and I am a Ballard fan, but it would have been nice to have given him a better shot for sure. I agree 100% here, he is huge, can skate, and even showed some offensive skill, Would way rather have re-signed him rather than signing Desbiens. Yeah I agree, he impressed in the finals but didn't do much last season with the big club, still would have liked to see us give him a longer look though. He didn't wanna be here, we really had no choice. The more I look at the deal and the more time goes by the more I am happy with it. I was a huge Coho fan, but I remember the days he got non-stop critisim like Zack gets, and I stood up for him and he proved me right, and I think Zack will aswell, he is younger so it will take us a bit longer but he is working hard everyday and all the time and is really motivated to get better and once he enters his prime I think everyone will be happy with the trade, he will bring skill aswell as intangables which will really be a huge asset if we continue to develop him into what he can be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CookieCrumbs Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Good thread, great read. Victor Oreskovich deserved a better look. I suspect there were some behind the scenes stuff here as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 I really liked Coho, but I am a HUGE Kassian fan. I would have liked to have seen COHO get an opportunity hear, at the same time I think Kassian is a way better fit. Even though he is a slight skill downgrade from Hodgson he more than makes up for it with size and tenacity. Hodgson's size and lack of speed might hold him back from being an elite player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucklehead44 Posted January 5, 2013 Author Share Posted January 5, 2013 Some of these I actually agree with you on, some I disagree, some I have no comment/don't know enough about them. I'll just go through the one's I have a comment on, on your list quickly then give my list in short form. don't know much about him (when he was here), but I like him, he's huge, hits hard and skates well. He fights and stands up for teammates. Would have looked great on our 4th line now IMO. - I am acquaintances with his best friend. He said that Mike had serious work ethic issues. Really cool guy who had a tonne of skill but happened to take his NHL opportunity for granted. It is a shame as players that big and tough don't typically have his level of skill. He wanted to much money, the Sedin's made him look better than he actually was, it would have been nice to keep him around but he isn't the 30 goals scorer the Sedin's made him. I'm fine with letting him go. (Not fine with who we got to replace him though) - The thing with Carter was he worked. He wasn't worth 2.5 with Columbus, but he was easily worth 2.5 with us. The Sedins have played 11 years in the league and the only other linemate to top Carter in goals is Burrows with 35, and he has only done it once. Don't forget that the Sedins were a second line back then too. Absoluetly, still kinda bent out of shape about this, was never given a fair shot, I was really hopeful he would finally give him one in 11/12 but then he left so we traded his rights, he played well enough in 10/11 (And had demonstrated enough in the AHL) to be given a serious shot at a top 6 spot IMO. A classic example of poor asset managment, I think he could have been a good top 6 winger and still do. - Yep, makes me cringe. I can't understand why he was given such a short leash on his second stint, he played well. I agree in that I really liked him, I thought we saw flashes of brilliance in 09/10 but there were just as many times we saw inconsistentcy. The deal made sense for us at the time, He wouldn't have been able to crack the top 6 (No one would have kept him in favor of Raymond or Sammuelsson after career seasons) So I understand why we made the move, and I am a Ballard fan, but it would have been nice to have given him a better shot for sure. - Don't forget he did play quite a bit on the 4th line. Even with poor quality ice time he was effective at getting the puck on the net for an offensive zone faceoff. I agree 100% here, he is huge, can skate, and even showed some offensive skill, Would way rather have re-signed him rather than signing Desbiens. - I don't understand why he wasn't brought back. In the short amount of time he was with the club he did everything expected from him, if not more. Yeah I agree, he impressed in the finals but didn't do much last season with the big club, still would have liked to see us give him a longer look though. - Agreed He didn't wanna be here, we really had no choice. The more I look at the deal and the more time goes by the more I am happy with it. I was a huge Coho fan, but I remember the days he got non-stop critisim like Zack gets, and I stood up for him and he proved me right, and I think Zack will aswell, he is younger so it will take us a bit longer but he is working hard everyday and all the time and is really motivated to get better and once he enters his prime I think everyone will be happy with the trade, he will bring skill aswell as intangables which will really be a huge asset if we continue to develop him into what he can be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain_kirk1 Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Dale Weise > Bitz, Volpatti & Duco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Where's Wellwood Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Don't forget Cowan the Brabarian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MashedBananas Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Vote for Rory anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diesel_3 Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 No Justin Kurtz? I guess he would be REALLY short stint, thought he played more than only 27 games with the Canucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheels22 Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Mike Weaver and Mike Brown #2 turned into pretty good players when they left our team.. couple of players that weren't good enough when they played here are now players we could use on our team right now... And if Anson Carter stayed, he could be a possible all-star right now instead of retired for 5 years.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmotamed Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Shirokov and Grabner were good, but somebody who flew under the radar mostly that I was a big fan of was Brandon Reid! Hodgson trade was pretty terrible... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyBoy44 Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Don't forget Cowan the Brabarian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOMapleLaughs Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 Burke: Cassels. He had more gas left in the tank and Hank wasn't quite ready for 2nd line duty yet. Nonis: Carter. If he only had just taken a reasonable offer. His chemistry with the Sedins was quite good. Gillis: A few more players than Burke and Nonis, thanks to his team being quite a bit better. Some of those old regime lineups were shockingly thin compared to today's. Methinks the WCE will all have long-term issues with their bodies due to those years of being ridden into the ice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucklehead44 Posted January 6, 2013 Author Share Posted January 6, 2013 Burke: Cassels. He had more gas left in the tank and Hank wasn't quite ready for 2nd line duty yet. Nonis: Carter. If he only had just taken a reasonable offer. His chemistry with the Sedins was quite good. Gillis: A few more players than Burke and Nonis, thanks to his team being quite a bit better. Some of those old regime lineups were shockingly thin compared to today's. Methinks the WCE will all have long-term issues with their bodies due to those years of being ridden into the ice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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