Rollieo Del Fuego Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 I think he gets too much at this point to be honest This sums it up for me. Sorry to burst your bubble. http://www.hockeysfu...ects/bo-horvat/ He will probably be a very good third line centre, maybe a second line centre with grit and determination. I highly doubt though he will every be as elite as Schneider and making it seem like he will is unfair to him, and to fans. The expectations should be realistic, and IMO, that's a gritty third liner that can fill in on the second , or maybe anchor the second at best with the right linemates. Nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rollieo Del Fuego Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 I think he gets too much at this point to be honest This sums it up for me. Sorry to burst your bubble. http://www.hockeysfu...ects/bo-horvat/ He will probably be a very good third line centre, maybe a second line centre with grit and determination. I highly doubt though he will every be as elite as Schneider and making it seem like he will is unfair to him, and to fans. The expectations should be realistic, and IMO, that's a gritty third liner that can fill in on the second , or maybe anchor the second at best with the right linemates. Nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absent Canuck Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 I think he gets too much at this point to be honest This sums it up for me. Sorry to burst your bubble. http://www.hockeysfu...ects/bo-horvat/ He will probably be a very good third line centre, maybe a second line centre with grit and determination. I highly doubt though he will every be as elite as Schneider and making it seem like he will is unfair to him, and to fans. The expectations should be realistic, and IMO, that's a gritty third liner that can fill in on the second , or maybe anchor the second at best with the right linemates. Nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silfverberg Snipes Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 Look at everyone downplaying Schneider after the trade. How distasteful is that. Now that we're stuck with Luongo we're talking about keeping the more 'proven' player. I'll tell you what Luongo has done. He's shown us that he is mentally weak and is prone to letting soft goals in big games. Throwing up shutouts in the playoffs is fine as long as you're consistently playing to that level, which he hasn't. I would take Schneider over Horvat every day of the week. I guess what I'm saying is that I'd rather have a potentially future elite goalie than a potentially future elite second liner, who most likely won't be playing that role for a while now with Kesler and the Sedins locked up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absent Canuck Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 Look at everyone downplaying Schneider after the trade. How distasteful is that. Now that we're stuck with Luongo we're talking about keeping the more 'proven' player. I'll tell you what Luongo has done. He's shown us that he is mentally weak and is prone to letting soft goals in big games. Throwing up shutouts in the playoffs is fine as long as you're consistently playing to that level, which he hasn't. I would take Schneider over Horvat every day of the week. I guess what I'm saying is that I'd rather have a potentially future elite goalie than a potentially future elite second liner, who most likely won't be playing that role for a while now with Kesler and the Sedins locked up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drouin Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 Look at everyone downplaying Schneider after the trade. How distasteful is that. Now that we're stuck with Luongo we're talking about keeping the more 'proven' player. I'll tell you what Luongo has done. He's shown us that he is mentally weak and is prone to letting soft goals in big games. Throwing up shutouts in the playoffs is fine as long as you're consistently playing to that level, which he hasn't. I would take Schneider over Horvat every day of the week. I guess what I'm saying is that I'd rather have a potentially future elite goalie than a potentially future elite second liner, who most likely won't be playing that role for a while now with Kesler and the Sedins locked up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drouin Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 I think he gets too much at this point to be honest This sums it up for me. Sorry to burst your bubble. http://www.hockeysfu...ects/bo-horvat/ He will probably be a very good third line centre, maybe a second line centre with grit and determination. I highly doubt though he will every be as elite as Schneider and making it seem like he will is unfair to him, and to fans. The expectations should be realistic, and IMO, that's a gritty third liner that can fill in on the second , or maybe anchor the second at best with the right linemates. Nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamJamIam Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 Look at everyone downplaying Schneider after the trade. How distasteful is that. Now that we're stuck with Luongo we're talking about keeping the more 'proven' player. I'll tell you what Luongo has done. He's shown us that he is mentally weak and is prone to letting soft goals in big games. Throwing up shutouts in the playoffs is fine as long as you're consistently playing to that level, which he hasn't. I would take Schneider over Horvat every day of the week. I guess what I'm saying is that I'd rather have a potentially future elite goalie than a potentially future elite second liner, who most likely won't be playing that role for a while now with Kesler and the Sedins locked up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drouin Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 While I do agree that public opinion of Schneids shifted in a day, I would say it's less a disingenuous attempt to devalue him and more a realistic view of his abilities relative to his earlier overhyping. Schneids is good but not a superstar however he had a rock-steady quality that made the team play better in front of him. But as the pressure piled on, he started to show cracks as did the team. The result is an underwhelming playoff record. I hate to give the TO media a passing grade on this one but the narrative that he might not be able to be as good a starter as a backup clearly held weight. Trading him made sense for a lot of reasons that had nothing to do with Lu's contract. Meanwhile Horvat could be one of the more underrated players I've seen in quite some time although for what reason I don't know. It looks like the Nucks did their homework on this one and could pay off much sooner than trading for a draft pick normally does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamJamIam Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 Horvat has been compared to Backes, Bergeron, http://www.thescore....ofile-bo-horvat http://thehockeyguys...london-knights/ “He's a very intense guy. He's very similar to Jonathan Toews. He does whatever it takes to win. He's going to be a captain in the NHL one day; that's just who he is.” Read more: http://www.vancouver...l#ixzz2bQgprBxM Not bad if he pans out to play like either one. Also considering that we still have a top 10 goalie in the league in Luongo, it wasn't a bad deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter.S-Kerouac Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 Proven to be prone to playoff meltdowns. I'd take unproven over consistently crumbling when it matters most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl's Jn Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 I am excited i can't wait for bo... this draft was a great won for the canucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl's Jn Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 schneider has proven less consistant in the playoffs than Luo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silfverberg Snipes Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 schneider has proven less consistant in the playoffs than Luo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riviera82 Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 schneider has proven less consistant in the playoffs than Luo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rollieo Del Fuego Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Bo is better puck stopper than either of the above... is this not a Bo thread, what's with the side talk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Ok. Horvat is 18 and Schneider is 27. This alone is lopsided in Horvats favor by any measuring stick. Schneider is a good goalie. But he has played 80 games in the NHL . For a 27 year old that aint a lot. He has 6 NHL playoff starts too. Posting 1 win, although he played well in 3 of them. He is no superstar and he will never be a superstar. He is a starting NHL goalie. A top 10 goalie at his best and top 20 at his worst. This is a fairly safe assessment. He could end up being worse, or better, but probably neither. Devils win this trade this year, next year, but after that the tables start to turn. And if Horvat is even half as good as we think he is, we clobber the Devils on this trade in 5 years when Horvat is 23 and Schneider is 32. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absent Canuck Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 The irony is that we kept Schneider through the debacle to "give ourselves a better chance to win the cup." I never bought that, we sat on strength in goal-tending when we had opportunities to fill significant holes in our roster. Part of the irony is Horvat probably won't be a significant player for 2 years, so we wasted a 4 year stretch 2011/12 through 14/15 where we could have been serious contenders. You cannot replace lost potential! If rumored deals were true, I can't imagine LA beating us if we had Jeff Carter playing RW beside the Twins instead of for the Kings. And he's a converted centre, would have carried us through Kesler's injuries this past year. How good would this have looked the last two years? Sedin/Sedin/Carter Booth/Kesler/Burrows Wow! Similarly, with Carter we probably never make the Kassian trade. Not only would the top 2 lines have been seriously dangerous; we would have had all the depth scoring everyone is trying to overcome with proposals to this day. Under more recent circumstances, the trade for Horvat is good consolation in a tricky predicament. 5 years from now we will certainly be better for having acquired Horvat. Carter, the Twins will have been past their prime. But we could also go 50 years in the NHL without a cup. I personally don't like either the Kassian nor the Horvat trades. Even though both will be great assets. Neither elevated the team through our best chance in over 40 years to be champs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 Great post but hear me out. I think if we get Carter we still trade Hodgson because he was driving Gillis and AV mad with his demands. Either Sedin or Kesler went........or Hodgson went. He wanted to be the man and we had no way to provide that for him. Schneider was a good goalie but we still have Luongo, who is good enough for us to challenge for the cup for 2 or 3 years. So Schneider was expendable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absent Canuck Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 Probably / possibly your right. My point remaining that we traded away young promising players for futures, 3 or 4 years from being impact players. Philly trades an asset, they get another young player likely to contribute quickly (Simmonds), plus a pick (Couturiere) plus a prospect (Schenn). We get just single prospects or picks. Edmonton was rumored to have offered a package like a first rounder (this years 7th?) a top prospect (I speculate Paajarvi) and I think a lower pick. MG seems to have an agenda when making a trade, and aside from the Erhoff trade it distracts from both objectivity and value. If his agenda is to get rid of Hodgson, why put the team back 3 years with the return? Oh well, at least Horvat is an excellent prospect! Same for big Kass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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