Canuck or Die Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Maybe some of you losers haven't understood this, but it IS actually hard to make trades. And no, trading depth around is not a big move. What actual big moves have teams made during this season that you losers think happened? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vcrguy Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 The problem is that the Canucks are in a specific situation. There is no doubt in my mind Luongo will again ask for a trade so he can be closer to his wife in Florida. Or at least in the east where its the same time zone. The only way he considers staying is if our team is a bonifide contender, not an sagging aging core. The twins are not getting any younger and Ryan Kesler is in his prime right now. Hamhuis, Bieksa and Burrows are all on the edge of going backwards. Even Higgins is 30 now. Why does Gillis want to put us in this middle ground where we cant win now and we cant tank for an excellent draft pick? Either run us at the cup or tank the team. I agree with you. I worry post Olympics or after this season when there's an out in his contract (just the ability to demand to be traded, but it doesn't mean MG has to do it), I think Luo is out of here. He was treated poorly by MG. You could seriously make a TV show out of the gong show that occurred there. I've said many times sarcastically that MG has a hard time ordering breakfast, forget making trades for players/millions of dollars. I stand by this. He just doesn't k now how to make a deal..............I'm happy for him to prove me wrong anytime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icycold Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 I agree with you. I worry post Olympics or after this season when there's an out in his contract (just the ability to demand to be traded, but it doesn't mean MG has to do it), I think Luo is out of here. He was treated poorly by MG. You could seriously make a TV show out of the gong show that occurred there. I've said many times sarcastically that MG has a hard time ordering breakfast, forget making trades for players/millions of dollars. I stand by this. He just doesn't k now how to make a deal..............I'm happy for him to prove me wrong anytime. Read one post above yours... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icycold Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Maybe some of you losers haven't understood this, but it IS actually hard to make trades. And no, trading depth around is not a big move. What actual big moves have teams made during this season that you losers think happened? This Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Money Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 10-1-1 over previous 12 games: Board is filled with positivity 0-2-2 over last 4 games: Sky is falling, we'll be competing for Connor McDavid next season We had 8/23 players out of our lineup after Kassian went down early in the 2nd; $21M in salary ... Playing against the best team in the league ... And we still got a point ... This board is so bi-polar, it should be committed to the crazy house ... You forgot 2nd night of a back-to-back... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesB Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Gillis has made some obvious mistakes, but one way of making things worse is to try to force a deal when there is nothing available. In fact, the biggest mistakes Gillis has made have been caused by trying to do too much when he would have been better off doing nothing. This includes trading for Ballard (giving up a first round pick and Grabner), and trading Hodgson (a legitimate top 6 forward) for Kassian (a project). I also think he has overpaid for the Sedins in their latest contract. Also, giving up Connauton and a 2nd round pick for ROy looks like a mistake at this stage. There is not much available right now. No point in giving away a valuable asset at this point. For the first time in a long time the Canucks have some good-looking prospects in the pipeline (Horvat, Shinkaruk, Fox, Gaunce, Corrado, Lain, Archibald). It is quite possible that the best strategy right now is to be patient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 There so much stupidity in this thread. We have just came off a president trophy 2012, did we get knocked out earlier in post season to the kings? Yes, tell me which team didn't. Does that mean every NHL GM is terrible? 2013 we have a shorten season where half our team didn't go over seas to play and a full year of Luongo vs Schneider. The team this year is what 23-13-8 and everyone is losing their minds. We just set a franchise record month in Dec, lose a couple games by a single goal all within the last 2 minutes, and nope this team is a far ways away from cup. News flash even good teams have bad games. LA has 1 win in their last 6, Ana had a stretch where the only won 3 of 12 games, SJ had a stretch where they won 2 of 8. You don't see their team's GM panicking making "bold" moves. Did ANA, CHI, SJ go out and make a big moves in the last two years. No, their teams core has been aging hitting their prime, and becoming more mature, while our team is getting older and worn down from being at the top for so long. What time in the last 10 years has there been a team at the top for so long as what the canucks have been. And everyone screams Gillis make a bold move and try to acquire someone to fill our holes, He did that with Booth, Ballard, Roy, and Kassian. Should be be more like Holmgren and make a move just to make one? Which top six snipers with size is available at a cost we can afford. Honestly, please tell me? What makes a top 6 player? I think we could all argue that a top 6 players should be expected to put up 20-30 goals and about 50 pts. Sound reasonable? Since are 2011 cup run there has been a total of 18 players that have been moved that have put up a point pace higher than 50 points in a season. 2011/12 Cammalleri Turris Brouwer Carter 21 goals 34 pts in 55 games Booth 16 goals 29pts in 56 games Richards 2012/13 Pominville Derek Roy (on pace for 57 points this season) Iginla Ryder Nash Van Riemsdyk Staal Ribeiro 2013/14 Vanek Moulson Seguin Ryan Out of these players which ones would have fit on our team? Now go back and look at the cost to aqcuiring one of them. Would we have been willing to part with Kesler, Burrows, Edler (at the time of the trades, Tanev wasn’t a top 4 yet), 1st round picks (Horvat, Shinkaruk, Ganuce)? The only bold move that has really worked out for any team is Richards and he cost a crap load to give up. People will argue Carter but he got a whopping 8 goals in their playoff run. Since 2011 Canucks have acquired Garrison, Booth, Richardson, Santo, Horvat, Shinkaruk, Roy, Ganuce, Kassian. I'm sick of hearing the Gillis is chicken, terrible, blah blah garbage. So what this team isn't winning the presidents trophy and beating every team with ease this year. You don't like it go cheer go cheer for flames Burkes built a lot of consitently successful teams, How about the oilers who've had the revolving door of GMs. Holmgren is a beauty in PHI. Mcphee is good at young trading future stars for washed up Erat. Or best of all cheer for Nonis, he's for 3 players locked up for 7+ years and still doesn't have a 1st line center. We have are ups and downs all we need is to come hot at the right time. Playoffs, Can't wait for this team to make a big run this offseason and watch everyone who's screaming for Gillis head jumping back onto the bandwagon cheering for the team he has built. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuongovsTuuka Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Dallas have three games in hand on Vancouver and three fewer wins than Vancouver. Vancouver is in 7th place in the Conference -soon to be eighth. Dallas is in 10th-soon to be in 9th.Not much difference in loser land. Gillis is not a 'Bold Moves' GM.Nill has already proven he is capable of a significant trade that markedly improved his team. As a fan of Dallas as well as Vancouver, I call BS here. Dallas has been in a playoff spot three years running only to crap out at the finish line. Lehtonen is overrated, their blueline is a mess and I don't understand why they traded Joe Morrow to Boston in the Seguin deal since they need more prospects on the back end. The 7-3 meltdown tonight against the Islanders is more of the same as the Stars from previous years. Jim Nill is an upgrade at GM over Joe Nieuwendyk simply because he was TERRIBLE. Trading Ryder for Cole was the worst trade of the year last year. The Stars don't have the horses to make the playoffs and the Canucks are a better team than Dallas. They are 7 points behind Vancouver with two games in hand. Sure, give Jim Nill a couple of years and they likely are breathing down the necks of the Hawks, but that's because Nill is that good and not because Gillis is that bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimberWolf Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 How does bold move your ass anyhow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icycold Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 There so much stupidity in this thread. We have just came off a president trophy 2012, did we get knocked out earlier in post season to the kings? Yes, tell me which team didn't. Does that mean every NHL GM is terrible? 2013 we have a shorten season where half our team didn't go over seas to play and a full year of Luongo vs Schneider. The team this year is what 23-13-8 and everyone is losing their minds. We just set a franchise record month in Dec, lose a couple games by a single goal all within the last 2 minutes, and nope this team is a far ways away from cup. News flash even good teams have bad games. LA has 1 win in their last 6, Ana had a stretch where the only won 3 of 12 games, SJ had a stretch where they won 2 of 8. You don't see their team's GM panicking making "bold" moves. Did ANA, CHI, SJ go out and make a big moves in the last two years. No, their teams core has been aging hitting their prime, and becoming more mature, while our team is getting older and worn down from being at the top for so long. What time in the last 10 years has there been a team at the top for so long as what the canucks have been. And everyone screams Gillis make a bold move and try to acquire someone to fill our holes, He did that with Booth, Ballard, Roy, and Kassian. Should be be more like Holmgren and make a move just to make one? Which top six snipers with size is available at a cost we can afford. Honestly, please tell me? What makes a top 6 player? I think we could all argue that a top 6 players should be expected to put up 20-30 goals and about 50 pts. Sound reasonable? Since are 2011 cup run there has been a total of 18 players that have been moved that have put up a point pace higher than 50 points in a season. 2011/12 Cammalleri Turris Brouwer Carter 21 goals 34 pts in 55 games Booth 16 goals 29pts in 56 games Richards 2012/13 Pominville Derek Roy (on pace for 57 points this season) Iginla Ryder Nash Van Riemsdyk Staal Ribeiro 2013/14 Vanek Moulson Seguin Ryan Out of these players which ones would have fit on our team? Now go back and look at the cost to aqcuiring one of them. Would we have been willing to part with Kesler, Burrows, Edler (at the time of the trades, Tanev wasn’t a top 4 yet), 1st round picks (Horvat, Shinkaruk, Ganuce)? The only bold move that has really worked out for any team is Richards and he cost a crap load to give up. People will argue Carter but he got a whopping 8 goals in their playoff run. Since 2011 Canucks have acquired Garrison, Booth, Richardson, Santo, Horvat, Shinkaruk, Roy, Ganuce, Kassian. I'm sick of hearing the Gillis is chicken, terrible, blah blah garbage. So what this team isn't winning the presidents trophy and beating every team with ease this year. You don't like it go cheer go cheer for flames Burkes built a lot of consitently successful teams, How about the oilers who've had the revolving door of GMs. Holmgren is a beauty in PHI. Mcphee is good at young trading future stars for washed up Erat. Or best of all cheer for Nonis, he's for 3 players locked up for 7+ years and still doesn't have a 1st line center. We have are ups and downs all we need is to come hot at the right time. Playoffs, Can't wait for this team to make a big run this offseason and watch everyone who's screaming for Gillis head jumping back onto the bandwagon cheering for the team he has built. HEY! Stop using logic!!! How dare you!!!! You sir, are a afront to emotional non-logical distress of the CDC ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vcrguy Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Maybe some of you losers haven't understood this, but it IS actually hard to make trades. And no, trading depth around is not a big move. What actual big moves have teams made during this season that you losers think happened? No, its only hard for people who don't know what they're doing or need. Here's a list of players traded since the end of last season: Schneider Bolland Setoguchi Versteeg Vanek Perron Ryan Seguin You're right, nobody significant on this list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tortorella's Rant Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 The Hodgson trade was bold.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck or Die Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 No, its only hard for people who don't know what they're doing or need. Here's a list of players traded since the end of last season: Schneider Bolland Setoguchi Versteeg Vanek Perron Ryan Seguin You're right, nobody significant on this list. Only a few players on that list are actually significant. Most were traded during the offseason, not during it. Oh, sure, Buffalo traded Vanek. But it's Buffalo. They knew their season ended right away. Who did they trade with? The Islanders. I'm not seeing any contenders here. Are you? We traded Schneider, and in return we got a damn good prospect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
people please Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Stars lost 7-3. Lol facts only,our goalies could steal us points and that's what separates the canucks from the Stars. Stars defiently got a bright future despite that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Specifically referring to the "penalties" associated with the front-loaded, long term contracts. These were contracts approved by the league, and then teams get punished retroactively for presumed circumvention of the cap. I seriously doubt many fans expected that degree of pettiness from Bettman. Bettman does nothing in cba negotiations that isn't mandated by the owners. Teams that handed out long term circumvention contracts (and yes they were to circumvent the cap) are in the minority. What goes into the cba is decided by the "majority". Fans give Bettman way too much power credit. If he's not doing what the majority want he's out of a job. The fact (and yes it's a fact) that his term was extended with a rather nice raise is a sure indicator he's doing exactly what the majority of owners want. You guys simply need somebody to blame and Bettman is the face that takes the heat for the owners. But in the end it's the owners that make the major decisions regarding rules changes, reffing, and what goes into the cba. Bettmans job is to get what the owners want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outsiders Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 I agree with this, that is part of the issue, no doubt he can't seem to make a decent trade, but also he now has very little to trade with (also his own fault). Only way we can make a move is in the off season and I believe the following players need to be kept/or should be available to be moved (many have nmc's or limited nmc's but have to find a way out of that). He can't trade any youth since we don't have enough depth there. Keep Forwards: Sedins (they are still terrific players but now need some support, and actually always have, we've always been a one line team and now that they are slowing to 80pt players the lack of support is showing, they can't carry the team by themselves in the reg season anymore, and never could do it alone in the playoffs). Kesler - undoubtedly our biggest trade chip but also a great deal of our emotional leadership and heart. Don't think you'd be able to replace that given the lack of that on this team. Too much of a void to fill if moved. Burrows - value will be down anyways after injuries and a slow start. He is a heart and soul player that if we make it back to a cup is needed, and is a very valuable piece of the leadership and a guy you want teaching the young players. Kassian - too promising to give up on, seeing more and more flashes this year as his confidence slowly comes about Hammer Tanev Corrado Stanton Lack Other than that, the rest of the team should be fair game (not including our draftees). Guys with the most value will be Edler Bieksa Garrison Higgins Lou given cap moves and the fact he is playing very well (not that i'd want him out but if someone says hell its time to get a real goalie for a run, and we have Lack showing he can play, well it may be a win win). Hansen This team needs a change of chemistry/makeup. Its hard to do on the front end but on the back end its possible. To be fair, MG did say this was a transition year and he may have been referring to the fact they are saddled with salaries and a lack of available free agents and cap room. Rid Booth next year, plus hopefully Horvat makes the jump as he does look like he can take on a 3c next year already from watching his World Junior play and hopefully one of Jensen/Shinkaruk surprises as we'd hoped this year, add in a REAL UFA signing and perhaps one move on the back end and we'll be in the running again...this is a tough year for nucks fans folks but we kind of all knew it at the start...this shouldn't be a surprise. Next year...clearly there will be moves ie 1. If Horvat makes it, clearly we have too many smaller centers - Schroeder, Santo, Richardson. 2. If we sign a real top 6 UFA Santo is no longer on Kesler's wing, where does he go? where does Schroeder go? Richardson is too valuable as a 4c not to keep. 3. If Jensen/Shink show they can play, then what happens with higgins/hansen? One of them will go 4. Booth will be gone Lets not forget, MG hoped that would happen this year but Jensen got hurt and just isn't ready, try and look at the big picture folks. 1. We are on pace for 100pts, in the toughest division and conference with a TON of injuries, this is not a BAD team 2. Do we need more size and a killer instinct, yes. 3. Do we need a legit top 6 fwd, yes 4. Do we still need a puck moving, offensive dman yes So while we need a better 'mix', we still have alot of pieces and experience that can get us to a cup...we need to inject some excitement and enthusiasm into the mix, high energy, in your face players (ie lappy without the stupidity) and a guy like shinkaruk and hey....all of a sudden the energy level rises, the team plays bigger. patience...look at my handle...i am calling it now...our wait will be over 2015... couldn't agree with you more +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metroneck Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Bettman does nothing in cba negotiations that isn't mandated by the owners. Teams that handed out long term circumvention contracts (and yes they were to circumvent the cap) are in the minority. What goes into the cba is decided by the "majority". Fans give Bettman way too much power credit. If he's not doing what the majority want he's out of a job. The fact (and yes it's a fact) that his term was extended with a rather nice raise is a sure indicator he's doing exactly what the majority of owners want. You guys simply need somebody to blame and Bettman is the face that takes the heat for the owners. But in the end it's the owners that make the major decisions regarding rules changes, reffing, and what goes into the cba. Bettmans job is to get what the owners want. Great post. It is the biggest irony in sports... Fans blame the commish for ruining the game they love, when he is only acting on behalf of the those who actually own the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exil3d Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 quote "And wasn't trading a goalie supposed to keep this current window open - ???" I like Bo Horvath's potential but what has he done to help us this year??? quote "There is no doubt in my mind Luongo will again ask for a trade so he can be closer to his wife in Florida. Or at least in the east where its the same time zone." Lu's recent (I call bull$hit) lower body injuries just show that he's only been here for his Team Canada considerations. Lu ain't no Tim Horton playing on a broken leg for sure... Lu's soft, hopefully he'll be gone soon and thank goodness Lack is capable of handling the net! Lu is by far the best goalie we have at our disposal, show him the proper respect. Lack is good but not good enough to carry this team yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
menace Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Really? Wow....I cannot tell anymore if people honestly believe this or they just troll for attention by posting this. Are you aware of the last 3 years of Burke and the Nonis years of what went down? Of the trades that were made, the players that were drafted and the contracts handed out? True no disputing that. Do your homework and then come back and say that with conviction Every core player with the exception of Hamhuis was a pre Gillis acquisition. Luongo Sedins Kesler Burrows Bieksa Edler These are the engines of the Team the rest are supporting cast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Money Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Every core player with the exception of Hamhuis was a pre Gillis acquisition. Luongo Sedins Kesler Burrows Bieksa Edler These are the engines of the Team the rest are supporting cast. Don't look now, but Santorelli and Higgins are top-6 and Tanev top-4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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