canadiangunner Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 No. Typical, if gillis can pull that deal off it would take this team to the next level. As a canuck fan it pisses me off how we continually overvalue our own talent and undervalue others. Take off the rose colored glasses! You must have also hated keenen for trading linden for bertuzzi, mcabe and ruutu?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Typical, if gillis can pull that deal off it would take this team to the next level. As a canuck fan it pisses me off how we continually overvalue our own talent and undervalue others. Take off the rose colored glasses! You must have also hated keenen for trading linden for bertuzzi, mcabe and ruutu?! Not remotely close. We're not at a stage where we should be pushing a mountain of chips all in. That time was 2010/2011/2012. Selling off a good chunk of our future core for one last shot is not good management. It's suicide. It has literally nothing to do with overvaluing anything. We're not trying to follow the Chicago/Pittsburgh model here. We're trying to follow the Detroit, San Jose, Anaheim model. That means retaining and developing your valuable prospects to supplement your talented core. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Not remotely close. We're not at a stage where we should be pushing a mountain of chips all in. That time was 2010/2011/2012. Selling off a good chunk of our future core for one last shot is not good management. It's suicide. It has literally nothing to do with overvaluing anything. We're not trying to follow the Chicago/Pittsburgh model here. We're trying to follow the Detroit, San Jose, Anaheim model. That means retaining and developing your valuable prospects to supplement your talented core. I don't know. If Gillis could achieve Ladd and Kane for Tanev gaunce Lack and picks I might put a statue up in his honour as in direct comparison to what we'd be getting back it would be a short amount to be giving away. No chance that ever happens even in EA NHL 14 but still, incredible return for a small amount if it was to happen. would leave 28 other GM's pretty choked though that Gillis fleeced the Jets like Chiarhelli did Burke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 I don't know. If Gillis could achieve Ladd and Kane for Tanev gaunce Lack and picks I might put a statue up in his honour as in direct comparison to what we'd be getting back it would be a short amount to be giving away. No chance that ever happens even in EA NHL 14 but still, incredible return for a small amount if it was to happen. would leave 28 other GM's pretty choked though that Gillis fleeced the Jets like Chiarhelli did Burke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOMapleLaughs Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Yup, I count 12 effective, with 14-15 players less than $3M. We have effective guys for cheap and you can't discount what Santorelli, Richardson, Hansen, Higgins, Tanev, Stanton and even Weber and Kassian have brought to this team. That doesn't count the 4th liners even, and they may not be ELCs, but it's not like Anaheim is far and away ahead of us on that count either. Add to that two players with higher cap hits than any of ours and the point TOML is trying to make isn't quite as effective. You count 12, but list 8. I guess if you change the definition of 'effective', then yes, you're correct. My definition is more realistic, however. I'm not quite seeing some players we have on the cheap as being effective NHLers. Because they're not. Hence us being far worse than Anaheim at the moment and the indicative 9-1 score. Bottom line is we're going to have to trim some fat to make the lineup deeper and more competitve. We were very successful when we had done that before. Moneypuck. Easier said than done, and the core is aging regardless. But here's what we should not do: Acquiring a player like Ott for a rental would be a complete waste of time. Trading big money for big money is also a bandaid solution, as the realistic return for our underperforming big money player will be another underperforming big money player. We've seen expensive project players already. No thanks. While trading Edler is on everyone's minds, it's so the wrong time to do it, as his value is at an all-time low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Well, there's effective, then there's exceeding expectations/over performing/excelling. Santorelli, Tanev and Stanton have been excellent surprises this year, and I forgot to mention Lack doing the same, but then there's Higgins/Hansen/Richardson playing key roles that are necessary to have success in the NHL, while depth that can contribute sometimes in Weber and Kassian helps as well. I'm not talking about borderline NHL'ers, where you could make a case for Eriksson, Dalpe, Weise, Sestito and Alberts. Then there's Schroeder who's been injured but should count, plus Welsh and Corrado who've contributed but are back with Utica now. What's that then, 12-17? Your definition of effective is I think what's different in this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOMapleLaughs Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 No i'm just looking at what's working at what isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadiangunner Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Not remotely close. We're not at a stage where we should be pushing a mountain of chips all in. That time was 2010/2011/2012. Selling off a good chunk of our future core for one last shot is not good management. It's suicide. It has literally nothing to do with overvaluing anything. We're not trying to follow the Chicago/Pittsburgh model here. We're trying to follow the Detroit, San Jose, Anaheim model. That means retaining and developing your valuable prospects to supplement your talented core. With aging Sedins you need to start thinking of getting chips in that will replace their production (or at least supplement it) now not in 4 to 5 years. We can't copy the Detroit, San Jose and Anaheim model as our prospect pool is too bleak. Getting a guy like E. Kane and giving up the chips mentioned is a no brainer. A 23 year old power forward who can score...I mean c'mon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragon4401 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 With aging Sedins you need to start thinking of getting chips in that will replace their production (or at least supplement it) now not in 4 to 5 years. We can't copy the Detroit, San Jose and Anaheim model as our prospect pool is too bleak. Getting a guy like E. Kane and giving up the chips mentioned is a no brainer. A 23 year old power forward who can score...I mean c'mon! Detroit has guys ready to take on Datsyuk and Zetterburg's roles now? Looks like maybe in a few years...So should they sell everything also? If Kane wants to come here he will when his contract expires and he is a UFA...Not for an overpayment that cripples us long term Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missioncanucksfan Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Trading big money for big money is also a bandaid solution, as the realistic return for our underperforming big money player will be another underperforming big money player. We've seen expensive project players already. No thanks. While trading Edler is on everyone's minds, it's so the wrong time to do it, as his value is at an all-time low. you cant just say that.....it has to depend on WHICH big money player we are aquiring. Aquiring big money players such as Booth, Ballard, Roy who are coming off big injuries or simply busts was just stupid. Aquiring big money players such as Kane or O'Reilly who are young and very effective are great hockey moves both for now and in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chauncey Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Crosby is a centre how about go for him? Booth Schroeder Edler and a 1st will make the Pens say yes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 No i'm just looking at what's working at what isn't. The <$3M players aren't the issue. The Sedins, Kesler, Edler, Burrows, etc. need to be doing more to help our woeful offence. It's our key players that have been involved in the defensive lapses too, so I don't think the blame falls on our depth/value players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllEyezOnMe Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 In a heartbeat because as good as Tanev is, a high 20 low 30 point season will be his career highs he doesn't hit doesn't fight and is very good positionally yet takes a ton of abuse. His cieling is a great top 4 shutdown guy but so is Corrado's Tommernes' Stantons' and we have Hutton etc coming down the pipes as well. Tanev for ALL of that? In a heartbeat and wish him the best at the airport Tanev is our second best D man without a doubt and he has proved it. Stanton has done nothing but get injured, still need a full season with him to truly know what he is capable of. Trading Tanev for a pick and prospect is beyond stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Tanev is our second best D man without a doubt and he has proved it. Stanton has done nothing but get injured, still need a full season with him to truly know what he is capable of. Trading Tanev for a pick and prospect is beyond stupid. Stanton has been injured once. Tanev is currently cap friendly, Hamhuis lite. Short on points physicality and upside. If Tanev alone or in a package nets this team the players and or prospects they need to be ultra competitive in this ridiculous division. You make the trade. it isn't about fan favourite or what might be. it is about what wins games and keeps us competitive. All of the players I previously mentioned in our system can play the same game to varying degrees and bring better physical game or better point getting game than Tanev. Again I love what tanev brings to the table, but it is about competing not keeping fans happy by holding players they like. That is the thinking that has us saddled with "role players" and "core players" that we can't trade due to NTC issues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 With aging Sedins you need to start thinking of getting chips in that will replace their production (or at least supplement it) now not in 4 to 5 years. We can't copy the Detroit, San Jose and Anaheim model as our prospect pool is too bleak. Getting a guy like E. Kane and giving up the chips mentioned is a no brainer. A 23 year old power forward who can score...I mean c'mon! We actually (finally!) have a pretty decent prospect pool of players set to contribute over the next 2+ years and a lot's of you want to ship them out as some sort of "hail-Mary" move. We should be developing them and adding to them not throwing them away on a prayer. What happens in 4 years when Kane is our ONLY talented player left? And then his contract expires and.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadiangunner Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Detroit has guys ready to take on Datsyuk and Zetterburg's roles now? Looks like maybe in a few years...So should they sell everything also? If Kane wants to come here he will when his contract expires and he is a UFA...Not for an overpayment that cripples us long term Trading tanev gaunce and a pick for something like Evander Kane is the equivlant of selling everything ? Give your head a shake. If the jets took that deal Gillis would be considered GM of the year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragon4401 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Trading tanev gaunce and a pick for something like Evander Kane is the equivlant of selling everything ? Give your head a shake. If the jets took that deal Gillis would be considered GM of the year! Then you realize if the Jets are going to move Kane who has no NTC that offer gets outbid quickly...Dallas comes to mind and LA...Even Edmonton if they decided to move Eberle/Hall/Nugent...Its not like last year when Calgary took the lesser price with Pittsburgh because they wanted something for Iggy and that was the only place he wanted to go Also they don't have to move him if they don't get overpaid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadiangunner Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 We actually (finally!) have a pretty decent prospect pool of players set to contribute over the next 2+ years and a lot's of you want to ship them out as some sort of "hail-Mary" move. We should be developing them and adding to them not throwing them away on a prayer. What happens in 4 years when Kane is our ONLY talented player left? And then his contract expires and.... So you think the future of the canucks is in the hands of tanev and gaunce? Give me a break, Kane would be a stud return for those two and a pick if necessary....Kane is 23 and not even close to the prime of his career and there is no way a guy like gaunce will get close to Kane's level. Gotta trade something to get something or are you one of those, "hey lets trade booth and alberts for evander kane" type of guys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Then you realize if the Jets are going to move Kane who has no NTC that offer gets outbid quickly...Dallas comes to mind and LA...Even Edmonton if they decided to move Eberle/Hall/Nugent...Its not like last year when Calgary took the lesser price with Pittsburgh because they wanted something for Iggy and that was the only place he wanted to go Also they don't have to move him if they don't get overpaid Yet everyone has a raging Kane-boner.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzy Desjardins Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Hopefully it's a top 6 centre and the third line will be taken care of with a trickle down effect, or when players come back from injuries/hopefully break out, like Scheoeder. You can never have enough centres, just slot extras to wingers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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