JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Well, I was hoping to let this thread die as arguing with the uninformed masses about the problems facing education in BC, on a hockey forum none the less, is an impossible task. As for the so called major "issue" with retired teachers TOCing perhaps the following link put out by the BCPSEA might cause you to lol. http://www.bcpsea.bc.ca/documents/tcaab06-42.pdf Specifically check out the end of point 5. Retired teachers are only brought in when there is a shortage in TOC's and they are not permitted to take long term assignments in most cases. As for the statement about 28% of TOC positions being more than 4 days. Those numbers are skewed by long term leaves such as maternity and medical issues. But that point is moot as there are provisions to prevent retired teachers from taking those positions. So retired teachers TOCing is basically a non-issue as far as the province or CDC is concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverpig Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Well, I was hoping to let this thread die as arguing with the uninformed masses about the problems facing education in BC, on a hockey forum none the less, is an impossible task. As for the so called major "issue" with retired teachers TOCing perhaps the following link put out by the BCPSEA might cause you to lol. http://www.bcpsea.bc.../tcaab06-42.pdf Specifically check out the end of point 5. Retired teachers are only brought in when there is a shortage in TOC's and they are not permitted to take long term assignments in most cases. As for the statement about 28% of TOC positions being more than 4 days. Those numbers are skewed by long term leaves such as maternity and medical issues. But that point is moot as there are provisions to prevent retired teachers from taking those positions. So retired teachers TOCing is basically a non-issue as far as the province or CDC is concerned. That is not at ALL what that link says. First this is a document which only covers advice for those districts that are experiencing TOC shortages, and gives them advice on several actions they can take to fill the gap. This is not a policy document on whether or not you can hire retired TOCs, and nothing in here prevents retired teachers from being hired. Second, that note you mention addresses retired teachers not being able to post to continuing contracts. Continuing contracts are ones which are expected to last longer than 1 year. See Article C 20 in the CBA I posted. This section also covers "temporary" positions, which are longer than 3 months, and your link says retired TOCs may have some limits placed on their access to temporary contracts (not that they are banned). Third, 28% of TOC positions being more than 4 days will indeed be skewed by long term leaves, but they will be skewed DOWN. This is the number of POSITIONS, not the number of days paid. If you are looking at days paid, it would probably be >50% are in long term positions. So, to sum up, your own link shows that retired TOCs are only banned from assignments longer than 1 year (i.e., can't get re-hired while on pension), may have some limits placed on their access to assignments longer than 3 months (but aren't banned from them), and actually suggests districts look to actively re-hire retired teachers as TOCs in some circumstances. Nowhere does it say that retired teachers can't be hired at all, and that wasn't the purpose of the document. ARTICLE C.20: APPOINTMENTS Continuing An employee who accepts a position that will continue for more than one (1) year shall be given a continuing contract. The provisions of this Clause shall not preclude the Board from offering a continuing contract to an employee who accepts an assignment of shorter duration. Temporary Classification A temporary employee is one who has been contracted for a specific position on a temporary basis. Such an employee shall receive a contract from the Board documenting the starting date and completion date of the temporary appointment. Length of Assignment i. Where it is known in advance that the assignment will be for a period of more than three (3) months, the employee shall be given a temporary contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 That is not at ALL what that link says. First this is a document which only covers advice for those districts that are experiencing TOC shortages, and gives them advice on several actions they can take to fill the gap. This is not a policy document on whether or not you can hire retired TOCs, and nothing in here prevents retired teachers from being hired. Second, that note you mention addresses retired teachers not being able to post to continuing contracts. Continuing contracts are ones which are expected to last longer than 1 year. See Article C 20 in the CBA I posted. This section also covers "temporary" positions, which are longer than 3 months, and your link says retired TOCs may have some limits placed on their access to temporary contracts (not that they are banned). Third, 28% of TOC positions being more than 4 days will indeed be skewed by long term leaves, but they will be skewed DOWN. This is the number of POSITIONS, not the number of days paid. If you are looking at days paid, it would probably be >50% are in long term positions. So, to sum up, your own link shows that retired TOCs are only banned from assignments longer than 1 year (i.e., can't get re-hired while on pension), may have some limits placed on their access to assignments longer than 3 months (but aren't banned from them), and actually suggests districts look to actively re-hire retired teachers as TOCs in some circumstances. Nowhere does it say that retired teachers can't be hired at all, and that wasn't the purpose of the document. Where did I say they couldn't be hired? I merely tried to point out that there are a number of provisions in place to prevent this from happening to the detrement of new teacher hires. The link refers to recomendations from the BCPSEA for the BCPSEA. Why would employers not take their own recomendations when hiring TOC's? If they recomend that retired teachers be hired as a last resort because of shortages what do you think they recomend districts do when there is not a shortage. Point 5 in that article also refers to "several letters of understanding in this regard" between the BCPSEA and the BCTF. Are you privy to those recomendations or are you satisfied with your interpretation? Do you have numbers on retired teachers working as TOC's? Do you really believe cash strapped school districts are out there hiring retired teachers en masse based on the money they could potentially make? I've been working in my district for over 10 years and I know of 3 and they all work in specialty areas. I can't speak for other districts but that seems like hardly a problem. If you guys have a problem with the current TOC system you should be more concerned about preferential call out although the argument in this thread is about money so based on those guidelines still not much of an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 If you guys have a problem with the current TOC system you should be more concerned about preferential call out although the argument in this thread is about money so based on those guidelines still not much of an issue. Actually my bigger issue with the "retired" TOC's is them holding up young teachers. The money (in that case) is secondary though still a concern. My biggest issues with money are the administrative waste and district redundancy waste. There's a LOT of money there that would be better spent on students/teachers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Isn't discrimination based on age illegal in this country? Are there any actual studies indicating "young" teachers are better than "old" teachers? Have these studies been reviewed by more than originator? So many problems and so many people's first reaction is someone is being overpaid. Drop in a bucket stuff, but hey that's ideology for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inane Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Seriously.... It's all 'think of the poor young teachers just trying to start their careers' until it's your kid then it's all 'screw that I want the best'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Isn't discrimination based on age illegal in this country? Are there any actual studies indicating "young" teachers are better than "old" teachers? Have these studies been reviewed by more than originator? So many problems and so many people's first reaction is someone is being overpaid. Drop in a bucket stuff, but hey that's ideology for you. Who said any of that? My concern is that we have a TON of unemployed young teachers not gaining the valuable experience they're going to need to be good teachers in the future while working at Starbucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Who said any of that? My concern is that we have a TON of unemployed young teachers not gaining the valuable experience they're going to need to be good teachers in the future while working at Starbucks. hey, we agree on something. This is my 8th year and I still get laid off every summer. I know many young teachers who have moved on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 hey, we agree on something. This is my 8th year and I still get laid off every summer. I know many young teachers who have moved on Yeah well it helps when you actually read what I write. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverpig Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Where did I say they couldn't be hired? I merely tried to point out that there are a number of provisions in place to prevent this from happening to the detrement of new teacher hires. The link refers to recomendations from the BCPSEA for the BCPSEA. Why would employers not take their own recomendations when hiring TOC's? If they recomend that retired teachers be hired as a last resort because of shortages what do you think they recomend districts do when there is not a shortage. Point 5 in that article also refers to "several letters of understanding in this regard" between the BCPSEA and the BCTF. Are you privy to those recomendations or are you satisfied with your interpretation? Do you have numbers on retired teachers working as TOC's? Do you really believe cash strapped school districts are out there hiring retired teachers en masse based on the money they could potentially make? I've been working in my district for over 10 years and I know of 3 and they all work in specialty areas. I can't speak for other districts but that seems like hardly a problem. If you guys have a problem with the current TOC system you should be more concerned about preferential call out although the argument in this thread is about money so based on those guidelines still not much of an issue. You said they could only be hired if there was a shortage (false) and your backup document didn't even support that. Pretty much everything you have posted on the subject has been in error and everything I have posted has been from direct experience or backed up by the exact language from the CBAs themselves. You have now resorted to deflecting to "how many?" and "where is your proof?" arguments which weren't what I was addressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted April 18, 2014 Author Share Posted April 18, 2014 BCTF announces 72-hour strike notice for low-level job action The BC Teachers Federation says students will not be impacted News1130 Staff April 17, 2014 3:38 pm VANCOUVER (NEWS1130) – Things are going to change a little bit for students starting on April 23rd. The BCTF has announced that day to be the start of low-level Stage 1 job action, targeting administration. In a release, BC Teachers’ Federation President Jim Iker says this decision was made “in response to disappointing progress at the negotiating table where the Christy Clark government and employer’s association have not backed off from unfair and unreasonable demands.” “On March 6, after over a year of negotiations, 89 per cent of BC teachers voted in favour of potential job action to help secure a fair and reasonable settlement,” said Iker. “The overwhelming vote was a strong and decisive mandate from teachers to put pressure on Christy Clark’s government and the negotiators for the BC Public School Employers’ Association. According to the statement, there will be no immediate school closures or disruptions to students. This first stage is administrative in nature only. “There has been more than six weeks since our strike vote and the government still has these unacceptable demands on the table,” adds Iker. ”Teachers will not agree to a 10-year term, we’ve asked repeatedly since May for the province to move away from that.” Teachers will continue to teach, write report cards, communicate with parents, and participate in their volunteer extracurricular activities. Education Minister Peter Fassbender said in a statement that today’s announcement is disappointing but not at all surprising. “Over the past few weeks, it appears the BCTF has been more focused on implementing its strike plan than bargaining at the table.” “There has been virtually no movement from the BCTF on their wage and contract positions. The union hasn’t moved off its opening position of approximately 13.5 per cent increase over three years, nor has it withdrawn any of its many other monetary proposals.” “Now that the BCTF has formally initiated their strike plan, BCPSEA hopes the BCTF will now turn its attention to some real bargaining,” added Fassbender. “Nobody wants to see a repeat of the six-and-a-half month strike a few years ago where teachers faced no consequences financial or otherwise, for withdrawing a wide range of services – from refusing to write report cards to non-participation in extra-curricular activities. That situation only served to prolong the dispute, to the detriment of students, parents and all public school employees.” During Stage 1 job action teachers will not: Undertake any mandated supervision of students outside of regularly scheduled classes, except as set out by an essential services order. Attend any meetings with management other than meetings of the worksite Joint Health and Safety Committee. Provide principals or administrators with any routine printed, written, or electronic communication. Receive any printed, written, or electronic communication from an administrator. Be at a worksite prior to one hour before commencement of instructional time and one hour after the end of instructional time, other than for pre-arranged voluntary activities. Iker explained that any escalation of Stage 1 to Stage 2, which would mean rotating strikes, will depend entirely on progress at the negotiating table. http://www.news1130.com/2014/04/17/bctf-announces-72-hour-strike-notice-for-low-level-job-action/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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