Heretic Posted February 6, 2014 Author Share Posted February 6, 2014 Well then go back to the beginning of the thread where I pretty clearly state just a couple major areas where money's being wasted. (Hint: administrative waste and *ahem* "retired" TOC's) Good for her and good luck, she sounds like one of the good ones Yup... not only is that where some of the "bleeding money" I referred to is going... ..but as you mention it's bad for young teachers and in turn bad for students (not to mention taxpayers). Huh? Source please. How is it bad for students and tax payers when the School Board can't find anyone to take a class for a week so they call back someone that is retired? Also, as far as "retirement income" they paid into it - so it's theirs. No different than the company I work for contributing to pension. Definitely no where near what government elected receive after working a measly 2 terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 New teachers could always make themselves marketable by adding extra certifications--a good friend of mine is an EC-4 specialist with ESL and Gifted and Talented certifications. Teachers who are retired and receiving a full pension should stay retired or go into a different career field. What the state did here was pass a law that stated that retired teachers could not return to the classroom unless they forfeited their pension for that school year and received a first year teacher's pay. Because they make more money retired, almost all of the chose to stay retired. I have no idea what your point is? Like I said TOC's make flat rate. Seniority makes no difference. Other than taking a job away from a new teacher what is wrong with retired teachers TOCing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 I too agree that the BCTF is asinine - but I can not see how anyone can possibly blame them for what the Ministry of Education has done to education in this province. Because they're actively fighting system reform. THEN STOP BLAMING THE BCTF!!!!! Otherwise, you CLEARLY do NOT understand it. Obviously better than you do. I have no idea what your point is? Like I said TOC's make flat rate. Seniority makes no difference. Other than taking a job away from a new teacher what is wrong with retired teachers TOCing? Collecting pension + TOC pay. Also, there is a "cost" to restricting the influx of new teachers. A couple years old but... http://oncampus.macl...full-time-work/ Two-thirds of new teachers can’t find full-time work Few other graduates in Canada have as much reason for pessimism as those who finished teacher’s college this spring. A study from the Ontario College of Teachers shows that two-thirds (67 per cent) of education graduates from Ontario’s class of 2009 found themselves unemployed or underemployed in the following year. And, the unemployment rate among new teachers has exploded to a staggering 24 per cent — up from just three per cent in 2006. The job market is bad in western Canada too. In British Columbia, 2,700 new students were certified by the College of Teachers last year. The BC Public School Employers’ Association says that only 1,000 are needed, according to the Victoria Times Colonist. Even in fast-growing Alberta, many school boards are laying off. The situation has caused Ontario to take an unusual step. In May, it placed a “hard cap” on funding for newly enrolled education students. Caps are usually reserved for medical professions only, but John Milloy, Minister of Training, Colleges and Universities for Ontario, explained that the supply and demand is so out of whack that teacher’s college enrollments needed to be culled. “We recognize that not every graduate of education programs wants to be a teacher in Ontario,” says the Minister. “But at the same time, we want to make sure that when people leave [teacher's college] they have a realistic chance of getting a job.” The problem for grads is that Canada has fewer school-aged children, fewer retiring teachers and yet teacher’s colleges have chosen to pump out more grads over the past decade. The new cap in Ontario will force first-year classes to shrink by 885 students overall by 2012-13. That means a maximum of 9,058 new students will start next fall. But is that enough? The new cap is still far above the 8,077 teachers from Ontario schools who registered with the provincial college in 1999 — a period when an average of 7,200 Ontario teacher’s retired each year, creating many spots for new grads. In the period between 2005 to 2009, average annual retirements fell to just 4,600, meaning thousands fewer jobs per year. And now? “Teacher retirements are forecast to remain under 5,000 annually over the next seven years,” concluded the College of Teachers’ report. That means the bleak job market for new teachers is unlikely to improve any time soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted February 6, 2014 Author Share Posted February 6, 2014 Because they're actively fighting system reform. Obviously better than you do. Collecting pension + TOC pay. Also, there is a "cost" to restricting the influx of new teachers. A couple years old but... http://oncampus.macl...full-time-work/ LOL. BCTF does one thing and one thing only - represent the teachers. They are not "fighting" system reform. Besides, what "system reform" are you talking about? Unless you work for the Ministry of education, or are a teacher yourself, then no, you do NOT understand this at all for you're like the guy who fell out of the boat. Oh, and DOH - of course new teachers can't find work in BC - BECAUSE CHRISTY CUT BACK HOW MANY TEACHERS CAN BE EMPLOYED AND INCREASED CLASS SIZES!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 LOL. BCTF does one thing and one thing only - represent the teachers. They are not "fighting" system reform. Besides, what "system reform" are you talking about? Unless you work for the Ministry of education, or are a teacher yourself, then no, you do NOT understand this at all for you're like the guy who fell out of the boat. Oh, and DOH - of course new teachers can't find work in BC - BECAUSE CHRISTY CUT BACK HOW MANY TEACHERS CAN BE EMPLOYED AND INCREASED CLASS SIZES!!!! -Yes they are. -So unless someone is a teacher or work for the ministry they can't understand the issues...right.... Not an ignorant statement at all -Christy didn't cut back anything. Budget realities made cut backs. Lack of system reform made cutbacks. The government is just the messenger of the bad news the BCTF refuses to accept or do anything about until they're forced to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inane Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 -Yes they are. -So unless someone is a teacher or work for the ministry they can't understand the issues...right.... Not an ignorant statement at all -Christy didn't cut back anything. Budget realities made cut backs. Lack of system reform made cutbacks. The government is just the messenger of the bad news the BCTF refuses to accept or do anything about until they're forced to. Oh come on. Don't pull a Ron. Since when do government's operate in budget realities. There is money. It's all about choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted February 6, 2014 Author Share Posted February 6, 2014 -Yes they are. -So unless someone is a teacher or work for the ministry they can't understand the issues...right.... Not an ignorant statement at all -Christy didn't cut back anything. Budget realities made cut backs. Lack of system reform made cutbacks. The government is just the messenger of the bad news the BCTF refuses to accept or do anything about until they're forced to. The Government, in particular, Christy, refuses to do anything about it. She's like a stubborn spoiled kid in the playground and won't budge. It's her way or the highway. She's had it her way since 2002 - how's that worked out so far? Brutal. No wonder her kids are in private school. You give the impression that you have no clue whatsoever - the teachers just give and give and give - then you complain about it that it's their fault and the BCTF - why? They can't do a BLOODY thing because CHRISTY won't let them. You're just ticking me off, I know you're smart so the only thing I can think of is you're just trolling this issue. C'mon man! Stop acting like "Christy" and really understand what's going on. No matter what the teachers offer, NO is the answer from Christy - I doubt she even reads anything that comes her way - probably has a policy to just say NO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 lol...you guys are hilarious in your denial of reality. Can't seem to find more recent StatsCan info but: http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/81-595-m/2010083/c-g/c-g008-eng.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 I have no idea what your point is? Like I said TOC's make flat rate. Seniority makes no difference. Other than taking a job away from a new teacher what is wrong with retired teachers TOCing? TOC is where young teachers get the necessary experience before moving on to regular classroom jobs. I have no issue with retired teachers TOC'ing as long as it's not taking jobs away form young teachers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Colt 45s Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 lol...you guys are hilarious in your denial of reality. Can't seem to find more recent StatsCan info but: http://www.statcan.g.../c-g008-eng.htm The first three are obvious, because of the population size and the cost of living/working in the North. Alberta makes sense because of the financial standing of the province. Manitoba may be higher because of the population. This leaves BC at slightly above the national average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Colt 45s Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 TOC is where young teachers get the necessary experience before moving on to regular classroom jobs. I have no issue with retired teachers TOC'ing as long as it's not taking jobs away form young teachers. It is hard to gain experience working if you are only doing it everything other day/week. Is it beneficial to the kids to have a worn out old teacher or someone who is fresh, naive, and still ambitious? I will pick passion any day of the week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 It is hard to gain experience working if you are only doing it everything other day/week. Is it beneficial to the kids to have a worn out old teacher or someone who is fresh, naive, and still ambitious? I will pick passion any day of the week. our district is pretty short on TOC's, so most work everyday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 The first three are obvious, because of the population size and the cost of living/working in the North. Alberta makes sense because of the financial standing of the province. Manitoba may be higher because of the population. This leaves BC at slightly above the national average. I'd add: "...and above more comparable provinces." but I digress... Which tells us what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Colt 45s Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 I'd add: "...and above more comparable provinces." but I digress... Which tells us what? Based upon the size and scope of the economy and the valuation of real estate, the BC school system is lagging behind the rest of the nation in funding education as a percentage of its economy. However, more spending does not always equate to a better education; therefore, other standardized metrics must be utilized to determine educational proficiency as a proper means to evaluate effectiveness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Colt 45s Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 our district is pretty short on TOC's, so most work everyday I had a full time contract my first year out of college. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inane Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 JR. If we have no money as you claim, please explain all the things we're spending money on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Based upon the size and scope of the economy and the valuation of real estate, the BC school system is lagging behind the rest of the nation in funding education as a percentage of its economy. However, more spending does not always equate to a better education; therefore, other standardized metrics must be utilized to determine educational proficiency as a proper means to evaluate effectiveness. Not Ontario/Quebec... It tells me that funding (or lack thereof) isn't the issue or at the very least it's certainly not remotely the main issue. Contrary to Heretic/Inane's claims it's not a matter of funding cuts or "There is money. It's all about choices. " The problem lies in how that money is being spent (wasted). Not how much of it there is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted February 6, 2014 Author Share Posted February 6, 2014 http://www.cbc.ca/news2/interactives/map-schoolstats/ Notice how BC has the highest students to educator ratio in all of Canada. "Between 2001/2002 and 2007/2008, the number of full-time equivalent educators fell 12.2% in Newfoundland and Labrador, 5.9% in British Columbia and 4.7% in Saskatchewan (Table A.13)." Also, from 2006/07 - 2010/11, BC fell another 3.7% Chart 7 Percentage change in total expenditures between 2001/2002 and 2007/2008, Canada, provinces and territories http://cpcml.ca/publications2013/2013BetterSchoolsforBC-NumbersTelltheStory.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 JR. If we have no money as you claim, please explain all the things we're spending money on. The education system already has plenty of money. Above the national average, above our closest comparables (Ont/Que who we should arguably be below). This is not a funding priority issue. Education already IS a priority based on those numbers and the reality that it is the second largest budget allocation. Again, the problem isn't the money coming from the province, it's HOW that money's being spent that's the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 http://www.cbc.ca/ne...ap-schoolstats/ Notice how BC has the highest students to educator ratio in all of Canada. "Between 2001/2002 and 2007/2008, the number of full-time equivalent educators fell 12.2% in Newfoundland and Labrador, 5.9% in British Columbia and 4.7% in Saskatchewan (Table A.13)." Also, from 2006/07 - 2010/11, BC fell another 3.7% Chart 7 Percentage change in total expenditures between 2001/2002 and 2007/2008, Canada, provinces and territories http://cpcml.ca/publ...elltheStory.pdf Yes! Why is that?! Because it's certainly not a budget issue!!!! (Appears to be the wrong graph BTW) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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