Draft Hype vs Reality

[Merci]

It makes my stomach think to see kassian and gaunce for kane talk.

Both those players will be stanley cup caliber top 6 guys.

Gaunce has the best possible attitude tou could have and it pretty much corner stoning erie otters right now.

And Kassian. The guy whos had 10 points in 15 games for a kid taking selfies with wads ofcash.

Jesus christ get off this message board.

[Kevo882]

It makes YOU laugh? I'm laughing at YOU!

First of all, nobody said trade Kesler or the Sedins JUST for draft picks. We would be getting much more than that for either of them. Weren't you paying any attention around the trade deadline? The Canucks turned down an offer that included a roster player, a prospect, and a draft pick.

Second of all, Evander Kane would not be the right "young" player to target. Sure, he has speed and can score. But if you actually follow him much, you'll notice that he is also very selfish, has a bad attitude, and isn't the greatest two-way player.

[BI3KSA-]

I'll take these both together. Remember that what I have said is to base any trades made on the TYLER SEGUIN TRADE. The one where Dallas acquired an elite player for a fair price.

Evander Kane is not an elite forward. He does not have the potential to be one. One season over 50pts, attitude problems, supposedly on a bad team (he'd be going to an even worse one here remember). He does not return the 6th overall plus Bo Horvat to Winnipeg. He doesn't get them the #1 overall, the #2 overall, nor the #3 overall. Kane is damaged goods at this point, and the return for him is at an all-time low.

Regardless of what you think his potential is, and whatever stats you throw around, the fact is that an even better player than Kane went for a 2nd line forward, two medium prospects and a low prospect - and got a 1LC, the perfect 3LC and a waste prospect.

Kane should therefore reap a 2L/3L forward, plus two prospects. Jensen and Corrado - regardless of where they were selected (honestly, who cares where Corrado was drafted? It's like saying Zetterberg isn't worth Cody Hodgson) - are two prospects who can and would make a big impact in Winnipeg next season. Both are better prospects than the ones Dallas gave up (at the time Smith had done very little to write home about), and the deal is fair. They actually improve their production through this trade.

There's no way I can convince you of course, but if the asking price includes any one of, or a combination of, the 6th overall, Horvat, Shinkaruk or Gaunce, there is no way the Canucks should trade for Kane. He is not worth the gamble.

Your entire bases is completely off. The Seguin trade wasn't, at this point, fair value, Dallas made off and are ducking the police right now. The only saving grace for Boston is that Reilly Smith has played very well this year, all things considered, and that the other prospects may turn out. Maybe if Loui was still a 70+ point first line player it would have been somewhat fair value. As for the bolded part, you lost all of what little credibility you had by saying that. Anyone who watches Kane or knows anything about him or his potential would know he does have the potential to be an elite forward. I didn't say he would grab the 1st, 2nd or 3rd overall pick. The last bolded part I agree with, except maybe the Gaunce part.

[THERETOOL]

is this thread about draft hype or an evander kane rumour ? I'm lost

[elvis15]

^ Yeah, a few people seem to be.

[BI3KSA-]

Read the OP, Evander Kane is discussed. He's part of the thread. Talking about Kane in this thread is a lot more on topic than the 5 posts Elvis made whining about this, that and the other thing.

[surtur]

I suppose anything is possible when you're talking about young guys. But to stoically predict something like that is absurd. Kane could be a fantastic player if he wants to be, no question about that. Fox won't have that option at the NHL level.

I wasn't being serious. You obviously haven't been in the fox talk thread some have him pencilled in with the twins next year.

I like Kane hence why I say if we cant move up in the draft we should unload the sixth in a package for someone like Kane. If I thought fox was that guy we wouldn't need Kane...

I hope fix turns out ti be a superstar but we have a few years before we know what if anything he brings to the NHL. I know it is hard ti get sarcasm on q forum but that's all it was. I would love to get Kane and unload a draft pick or two doing it.

[.Naslund]

Right now, Horvat > Kane

Horvat in a package >>>> Kane

Horvat in the future >>>>>> Kane

I would never trade Horvat for Kane even if we got Bennett. Horvat will be part of the future along with Kassian. Stop trading the future for some quick fix which might not even work out

Hey hey hey I'm all for potential. But if we got Bennett, having Horvat could be a bit redundant.

I obviously would not want to trade Horvat for Kane, I would much prefer they take Jensen or someone, but at the end of the day Kane is a bonafide 50-60 point player right now AND HE PLAYS ON THE SECOND LINE. he's still real young (22) and was picked 4th overall. So it wouldn't be that much of a gamble.

Kane has appeared to let the money go to his head though and become a bit of a diva, but if he can continue to develop, he can be a top winger for sure.......heck he may be right now if he had some better players to play with!

But no I love Horvat too, would be sad to see BoBo go

[TheXFactor]

Can you imagine Linden calling up the Jets GM and going..............'Can we have Kane for Higgins, Jensen and Corrado ?

I wouldn't do this trade even if the Jets GM made this offer. Corrado and Jensen might not match the skill Kane has in the future but both of them together would IMO be better to have on the team. Higgins is also arguably the most consistent, hardest worker on the team.

GMs however DO try to get the better of the trades though not to the extremity you seem to be implying. They WILL try to rip each other off if given a chance but as you said they are also likely to try to avoid deteriorating relationships.

With that said I pretty much agree with everything else you said. People can make all the offers and suggestions they want but fact is most if not all of them (including myself) don't fully understand how the entire procedure goes.

[.Naslund]

It makes my stomach think to see kassian and gaunce for kane talk.

Both those players will be stanley cup caliber top 6 guys.

Gaunce has the best possible attitude you could have and it pretty much corner stoning erie otters right now.

And Kassian. The guy whos had 10 points in 15 games for a kid taking selfies with wads ofcash.

Jesus christ get off this message board.

Gaunce is cornerstoning the Otters right now?..........

OKAY.

haha but no Gaunce is a high character guy no doubt.....slow though.

[VC420]

If Kane is so good then why does Winnipeg feel he is expendable. There is no team in the league that would trade someone like Kane unless they had a very good reason. From what i have read he is egotistical and not a team player. Washington has Ovechkin but all his skill is useless because he is a baby superstar who doesnt want to do anything but score goals. Look at Boston, they drafted or developed much of their core and filled the gaps in free agency. They really dont have one superstar scorer in that forward core They have a group of guys committed to the system and playing like a team to win the game.

Trading for Kane is a bad idea. Bringing him back to Vancouver where mindless fans will treat him like the next Jesus, is just going to inflate his ego, besides one good season isnt worth it, look at Booth, he has scored 30 goals before like Kane.. Besides, what do you think the Jets are asking? A first, a prospect and roster player likely. I wouldnt give up that for Kane.

I say we take our 6th overall pick and be happy with the young talented player we are guaranteed to get. Whether or not he turns into a star will depend on our developing.

"Long term consistency trumps short term intensity any day" - Bruce Lee

[VC420]

This is a once in a 5 year or even 10 year trade.

Sequin was not only a problem child, but underperforming in his role, which in all fairness was not his fault. He is a franchise center man being suppressed on a 3rd line.

The Bruins also had no way to develop him due to the shape of their roster. A consequence of Sequin being drafted by a contender instead of the bottom feeding Leafs that he should have been drafted by. This is one of the main reasons why bottom teams get the top draft picks to begin with.

Eriksson and Smith were good compensation for Seguin but ended up being a total ripoff. The Boston GM would be humiliated if they had been the bottom feeder to draft Sequin and desperately needed him in Boston but he gave him away. Luckily for him, he was gravy on top of their powerhouse and the Bruins went on to win the Presidents trophy so all is swept under the carpet.

We can sit here and WAIT for another 5 or 10 years and hope to catch some top franchise who has no room for their 2nd overall generational talent to develop. Maybe we can rip them off too.

Smith had 51 points in his first full season averaging 14 minutes a night and is 22/23. Eriksson had 37 points in what was an injury plagued season.

Both players fit the system better. That brings up the old debate, best player available or best player for the system.

In the end both teams won that deal. Dallas finally gets their franchise center, Boston gets a solid 2way winger in Eriksson and a talented young winger in Smith who I think will be a 60-70 point man in his prime.

If you watched Bruins off-season insider they spent a couple minutes debating Seguins role on the team and decided that he wasnt the type of player Boston wanted, then traded him within minutes, no second thoughts. They wanted to make their team the most feared 2way team in the league while Dallas wanted to become a speedy offensive dynamo.

I think both teams accomplished their goals.

[elvis15]

Read the OP, Evander Kane is discussed. He's part of the thread. Talking about Kane in this thread is a lot more on topic than the 5 posts Elvis made whining about this, that and the other thing.

Meh. I'll keep my Evander Kane talk in the pre-existing Evander Kane threads - not to mention my draft talk in the pre-existing draft threads.

[Tearloch7]

A lot of guys on here operate on a ..........'Its Christmas time' philosophy wheres when we trade we rip off the other GM. They have no idea how to run a business which is of course to form personal relationships.

Just about every trade proposal I see on HF Boards operates under the flame throwing carpet bombing method of communication. Try to rip off the other team, get into an argument with the other teams fanbase. Rinse and repeat.

If you tried this as a GM with the other gms, they would black list you within 2 weeks and you would never be able to trade anyone anywhere -even if the trade is in the other teams favor. Nobody would answer your call.

Can you imagine Linden calling up the Jets GM and going..............'Can we have Kane for Higgins, Jensen and Corrado ?

Its so insulting that not only would they decline, the guy would come to the realization that Linden has no respect for him or the Jets and is willing to try to outright rip him off, which if he did , would cause the whole city of Winnipeg to hunt for the- soon to be unemployed- Jets GM and hang him from a tree.

If the Jets suggested something so obnoxious , Linden would feel the same way too and would not do business with the Jets.

You need to build relationships with the other GMs. Not rip them off. The goal isnt to jerk the other GM around, its to make both franchises happy knowing they have to face their own media . Nobody wants to be embarrassed.

The kids on here or HF boards cannot understand this concept because they have never been in business before. If they would only think before they act, the discussion here would be far more productive.

Excellent perspective .. +1

[BI3KSA-]

Meh. I'll keep my Evander Kane talk in the pre-existing Evander Kane threads - not to mention my draft talk in the pre-existing draft threads.

If it gets locked by mods for being redundant, then it gets locked by mods. There is zero sense in making a bunch of whiny posts derailing the thread and mini modding.

[D-Money]

If Kane is so good then why does Winnipeg feel he is expendable. There is no team in the league that would trade someone like Kane unless they had a very good reason. From what i have read he is egotistical and not a team player. Washington has Ovechkin but all his skill is useless because he is a baby superstar who doesnt want to do anything but score goals. Look at Boston, they drafted or developed much of their core and filled the gaps in free agency. They really dont have one superstar scorer in that forward core They have a group of guys committed to the system and playing like a team to win the game.

Trading for Kane is a bad idea. Bringing him back to Vancouver where mindless fans will treat him like the next Jesus, is just going to inflate his ego, besides one good season isnt worth it, look at Booth, he has scored 30 goals before like Kane.. Besides, what do you think the Jets are asking? A first, a prospect and roster player likely. I wouldnt give up that for Kane.

I say we take our 6th overall pick and be happy with the young talented player we are guaranteed to get. Whether or not he turns into a star will depend on our developing.

"Long term consistency trumps short term intensity any day" - Bruce Lee

Young players with high potential get traded for various reasons:

Seguin - Attitude problems, and they were already deep at his position, so moved him to fill weaker positions with quality players.

Van Riemsdyk - Wasn't producing as much as the other young forwards the Flyers were stocked with, so used him to land a young D-man, where they lacked depth.

Turris - Clashed with coach, held out, promptly traded.

Kessel - After one 36-goal season, held out for a big contract. Boston traded him, and remarkably he's held that pace ever since. Would have been a great trade for Toronto, had they not been so terrible otherwise, and the picks surrendered so high.

Hodgson - Supposed attitude problems, clashes with coach and management, used as a trading chip to add a power forward RW (organizationally, their weakest position).

Kassian - Consistency issues, used to acquire a more developed offensive player.

I don't know about you, but I would like any of those players on my team. The problem is they rarely get moved without either elite established players or blue chip prospects coming the other way. But if you can buy low on the right player, and he pans out, you have given your organization a big leg up.

A great example of that is Turris. Who wouldn't love to have Turris now? Too bad, because the only time to get him without paying through the teeth was when his team and him had a "falling out". Ottawa benefited from that, and I believe some team may do the same with Kane.

[danjr]

Sedins are going downhill, wake up. Try offer both Sedins for a top 5 pick, see which team would give you that.

Wow, just wow.

Mom learned me not to say anything, if I only had bad things to say. That's all I got to say.

[danjr]

OMG Kassian for Kane...wtf. Kassian has all the potential to be a Bert. We have seen the BEST Kane can do. No way I would even trade straight across for each other.

Horvat for Kane.....are you freaking kidding. Obviously you didn't watch the draft and hear almost every GM praise Horvat as the best all around player in the draft.

The wealth of stupidity on these boards is staggering, almost as bad as the Xbox vs Playstation forums.

[KSniper88]

If Evander Kane was that good why would Winnipeg want to trade him, he simply is not consistent. Would Chicago want to trade Toews... I don't think so.

It's way better to draft your own players and develop them and make them a star.

It requires something called patience.

Evander Kane is not that good.

[elvis15]

If it gets locked by mods for being redundant, then it gets locked by mods. There is zero sense in making a bunch of whiny posts derailing the thread and mini modding.

So why are you responding to me then instead of making on topic posts?