PuckRock33 Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 knowl·edge·a·ble [nol-i-juh-buhl] adjective possessing or exhibiting knowledge, insight, or understanding; intelligent; well-informed; discerning;perceptive. Long time Canucks fan here, and browser of CDC topics, but this is only the first time I've ever started a topic. I felt I needed to get something off my chest. I was born and raised in Burnaby, and I've been a fan since 1985. I was 7 years old at the time. Tony Tanti was our superstar, we played in the Smythe Division, Jim Robson was our play-by-play, and we called the Pacific Coliseum our home. I've been through the heartaches of 1994 and 2011 like most of you. I moved to Toronto years ago, then to the U.S., and now back to Toronto, and in all those years have never wavered in my support of my Canucks team. Favourites of all time: Linden, Bure, Naslund and Luongo. Most memorable moments: Bure's Game 7 winner against Calgary, and Burrows Game 7 winner against Chicago. My one wish: To see the Canucks win the Cup before I die. I believe last year was one of the lowest points of our entire history. But since April, and the arrival of Trevor as our president, I've felt a renewed hope and purpose, from the top down, and throughout the organization. The hiring of Benning and Desjardins seem to be excellent choices, and the draft and free agency period this year have been the most exciting and dynamic for a Canucks fan in a long long time. All of this bodes well for the future, and I'm excited to watch the team again this year, just to see if they can turn it around. Hope appears to be on the horizon. I believe Canucks fans are some of the most passionate fans in all of sports. You only need to watch the latest video on the Canucks Summer Summit to realize just how passionate we are. Shorthouse alluded to this, that amidst beautiful 27 deg C sunny weather in Vancouver, thousands of fans showed up at Rogers Arena just to talk hockey. The passion is undeniable. What may be up for debate, however, is how truly "knowledgeable" we are as a fan-base. Personally, I feel there's a small proportion of those in Vancouver who really understand the game because they play it, have played it, or are involved in it at some capacity. The much larger proportion of fans would probably be more like me: watch a lot of hockey, talk a lot of hockey, and follow it *with a passion*, but probably don't really know what goes on behind the scenes, for example, within the locker room, or at ice level. I bring this up largely because of the Q&A period I just watched during the Summer Summit. One of the fans who asked a question (the one about "Connor McDavid sweepstakes") declared our entire fan-base a "knowledgeable" one. And somehow, I get the feeling that many other fans have the same feeling about us as a fan-base. Without offending anyone though, I would argue that as a fan-base overall, we as Canucks fans are not as knowledgeable as we perceive ourselves to be. Just look at the questions that were asked during the Summit for a small sample, and read CDC regularly for a larger sample size, and you'll realize just how un-informed we really are. If you really want to know what a "knowledgeable" fan base is, I bet you'd find one in Medicine Hat. A small Canadian town, with grassroots hockey, and outdoor rinks. A large proportion of the citizens probably are involved in hockey at ALL levels, and live and breathe junior hockey with the M.H. Tigers. I bet if you bumped into someone on the streets of M.H., they'd be able to tell you which "kid really is starting to develop", or "who has NHL talent", with actual specifics on their skill level and development, because they've been watching every game live, and scouting (like Trevor's mom!) I bet Coal Harbour, or Peterborough, or London would have a similar "grassroots" feel to them. When we say Canada is a hockey nation, I believe it's because of these types of communities, not because of large markets like Vancouver. In Vancouver, what we have is a large metropolitan area, a diverse demographic, and a melting pot of cultures, where hockey is just one of many hobbies and interests to keep the Vancouverite active. You bump into someone on the street, and they'll talk about the Canucks alright, but probably without the same true insight you might hear from a grassroots "hockey dad" (except of course for those truly involved in hockey in Vancouver, which presumably is a much smaller fraction of the population compared to the small towns I'm referring to). I first noticed the difference when I lived in Madison, Wisconsin. As an avid sports fan, I thought I was fairly "knowledgeable" about not just hockey, but also basketball and football. I mean, I watched a lot of NBA, knew the teams, the players, the stats, the rules, the jargon; I loved the CFL and followed the NFL, etc. I thought I knew what I was talking about, especially since I had regular, intelligible conversations with my friends back home in Vancouver on these same sports. But what I realized was that the "average fan" at a sports bar in Madison simply knew the sport of basketball and football at a completely different level than I did. They lived and breathed college sports, and could dissect the game down to individual playcalls that were drawn up on the clipboard, as if they had played or coached the sport themselves. I realized then that knowing sports trivia or being an avid sports fan watching games on TV was not really the same as being truly "knowledgeable" about the game. I decided I needed to rant because I'm truly frustrated with our fan-base, moreso than my frustration with the team itself. I believe our fans think too highly of themselves, such as the one that claimed we are a "knowledgeable fanbase", when that's not an accurate assessment for a large fraction of the population. I believe that because of our arrogance, we are not well respected by fans in other markets, and that this negatively affects others' perception of Vancouver as a hockey town, and the Canucks as a team. In short, I think our arrogance and ignorance as Canucks fans has hurt the reputation of the very team we love so much. If you want to help the team in your role as a fan, I implore you do two things: 1. Stop claiming that we are collectively a "knowledgeable fanbase" when we are not. (Note: You are of course welcome to consider yourself "knowledgeable" if that is indeed the case, but no need to extend that to the rest of the fanbase; you would be in the minority when it comes to being truly knowledgeable in Vancouver). 2. Actually learn more about the game, beyond what is broadcast on TV, or said on the radio, or printed in newspapers. Go down to your local rink and get involved in the sport, if you truly want to be "knowledgeable". Perhaps then and only then will the Canucks, our fan-base, and our city actually get the respect and reputation it so truly deserves. It won't happen though if we keep patting ourselves on our own back. Let others do it for us if and when we deserve it. As fans, we owe it to our team to represent them well too. Nice run there. I don't think that some of the posters on the CDC are as indicative of their knowledge as much as their passion for the team but I like that they feel comfortable trying to add to what goes on here. Some probably even try to learn from the topics and discussions here and hopefully that can lead to an increase of our collective "hockey IQ". BTW as a BC born and raised guy I would have liked to see you use Kamloops or Penticton as examples of grassroots hockey hotbeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmployeeoftheMonth Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 I hate the "we're not better or worse than most" responses because as a fan base we are better than some and worse than some when it comes to the game of hockey. Most fans who haven't played the game and have only watched on TV simply haven't had the opportunity to actually learn about it. Anybody who's had hockey actually be a part of their life (physically) in my opinion at the very least has a greater chance to be a knowledgeable fan and understand more than just what they learn in the intermission. That's not absolute. I know people I've played with since I was a kid (roughly 20 years) who wouldn't have the first clue. They play great in the moment but never cared to break down the game at all. It's all about opportunity and if the brunt of your opportunity was sitting in front of a screen I'd be hard pressed to find a truly knowledgeable person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmployeeoftheMonth Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 When I was a kid in Prince George, every winter the city flooded all of the town's tennis courts. It was up to us to clear the snow, but if you were willing to do a little work, you could play hockey anytime you wanted. I've always wondered if cities still do that... I think most cities now have built little arenas outdoors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popinjay Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 knowl·edge·a·ble [nol-i-juh-buhl] adjective possessing or exhibiting knowledge, insight, or understanding; intelligent; well-informed; discerning;perceptive. Long time Canucks fan here, and browser of CDC topics, but this is only the first time I've ever started a topic. I felt I needed to get something off my chest. I was born and raised in Burnaby, and I've been a fan since 1985. I was 7 years old at the time. Tony Tanti was our superstar, we played in the Smythe Division, Jim Robson was our play-by-play, and we called the Pacific Coliseum our home. I've been through the heartaches of 1994 and 2011 like most of you. I moved to Toronto years ago, then to the U.S., and now back to Toronto, and in all those years have never wavered in my support of my Canucks team. Favourites of all time: Linden, Bure, Naslund and Luongo. Most memorable moments: Bure's Game 7 winner against Calgary, and Burrows Game 7 winner against Chicago. My one wish: To see the Canucks win the Cup before I die. Wow, very similar to me. Born/raised on Vancouver Island and followed the Canucks since I can remember (well there was 1 year when I was like 5 that I liked the Penguins because of Lemieux). I was seven in '89 so basically caught the tail end of the Tony Tanti era but my real memories are of the early 90's teams with Linden, Adams, Courtnall, Lumme, McLean, Ronning, Mommesso, and of course the best ever Pavel Bure. His game 7 winner over Calgary is also my favorite memory as a Canuck fan! I also moved to the states, and currently live here (Boston of all places - and yes I was here in 2011). I agree with you for the most part as well. Especially if you go to those midwestern towns or even the south for football, the average person knows WAY more about those sports than the average person in Van knows about the Canucks or hockey. Vancouver is just not a huge sports city and there are a wide variety of type of ppl. There is a lot of support for the Canucks, but that's mainly lately because they have been doing well the past decade. It's not a bad thing either its just the truth. There is so much other stuff to do in Van that sport is almost secondary. There are cities and towns in the South or midwest where there is really nothing to do but follow football. These towns live and breath that sport. The cities here are more similar to Vancouver. Boston for instance, considers itself the greatest sports city, however half the ppl that live here are not from Boston and jump on the bandwagons for whatever team is doing well at the time (and they have had a pretty good run the last 10 years for ALL the teams). The only reason they can support these team is the population. The New England area has got to have over 14 million people to support all the teams, and even with that many, the teams struggle when they do bad. When I first moved here 8-9 years ago I could go to a Celtics and/or Bruins game for $10. It also helps that these teams have a long traditional history. You have ppl who live in these city whos fandom goes back 3 or 4 generations. Canucks are relatively new compared to say an original 6 team where your great great grandfather may have cheered for the team and passed that tradition down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmployeeoftheMonth Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Outdoor ice has a lot to do with that. I had 5 different outdoor rinks within walking distance when I was young. Only one had proper boards, but we didn't care. We could skate pretty much every day in winter. We have millions of fans or hundreds of thousands at least. Fans from all walks of life with different degrees of education, intelligence, and hockey experience. It's not possible for every Canuck fan to be knowledgable. Don't let the vocal majority fool you. There are many Canuck fans who know their hockey. I know we don't like each other; or you don't like me, but this is pretty bang on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popinjay Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Most fans who haven't played the game and have only watched on TV simply haven't had the opportunity to actually learn about it. Anybody who's had hockey actually be a part of their life (physically) in my opinion at the very least has a greater chance to be a knowledgeable fan and understand more than just what they learn in the intermission. This is true and I believe one of the reasons why the game lacks popularity in the states. It's really hard to appreciate the game and the subtleties if you have never played before. With every other major sport you can play how it is played professionally. You can pick up a basketball and shoot it or play in a game, you can hit a baseball and play catch or throw a football, but you can just put on skates and try to snipe a top corner. A perfect example is my friend who is big sports fan mentioned in jest how hockey players only play for like 30-45 seconds at a time. It is kind of ironic since he loves football and they play the actually game in spurts even less than that, but basically he has no idea how your legs burn with lactic acid after skating hard for 30 seconds. It's not because hockey players are poor athletes, its because its humanly impossible to strain your muscles for much longer than that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpennyCanuck Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 I play a lot, like a lot of NHL on XBOX. soo, I'm pretty sure I know what im talking about... Hahaha, Just kidding. But, I do my home work, and am usually not the one to jump ship. I just want to see my team succeed Cheers, Spenny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimberWolf Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Here's a new question.If you believe that you are more knowledgeable then do you believe that automatically makes you a better fan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Growing up in the peg playing on frozen ponds as soon as i could fit into a pair of skates, and watching games at the old winnipeg arena, where u parked 20 mins away and would have to walk in 40 below weather bred true hockey nuts. Moat peopl in van who cheer for the nucks at are home games im sorry to say are fairweather fans who like you said have never experienced hockey at a grass roots level, and thats ok. Take this year for example all those empty seats because we werent the best team in the league anymore, yet in alberta or the peg packed rinks even after years of sucking.There is a reason why every other city hates van fans, if i were a player id hate to play here we turn on are players quicker then anywhere else. People on here actually think putting burrows on waivers is a good idea so that some young guy who never has pplayeda a game can take his spot. Do u guys forget game 7 in 2011? i really wish fans would stop making our city look so foolish on differenty threads by talking out of there ass and acting like they know more then they do. maybe someone could write thread on here explaining the nuances and rules so that these fans can learn more about the game and quit making the small group of real fans look bad thanks Love all those sweeping statements in your little rant. And your grammar and spelling...Yikes! Hope that's not an indication of the Winnipeg school system! If playing the game as a child is your criteria for being an informative hockey fan, then you are disregarding a huge portion of the Canuck fan base. I suspect a large percentage of Vancouver fans: live away from the coast and have played hockey during the winter; have moved to the city from other parts of BC or Canada, where they played hockey; or played hockey on the various rinks throughout the lower mainland and Vancouver Island. It's just hockey folks. It's a game. It's entertainment. The rules aren't that complicated for the average individual. Vancouver has a huge spectrum of fans: some are knowledgeable; others are more passionate; and of course there's the corporate fans as well. Your last statement suggests that you are a snob that thinks he's some sort of exclusive fan. How special! I beg to differ. We are all Canucks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xereau Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 This is so completely unquantifiable, its laughable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganymede Posted July 11, 2014 Author Share Posted July 11, 2014 This is so completely unquantifiable, its laughable. Who said anything about wanting or needing to quantify this? And if it's quantifiable, there would be nothing to debate, which would make this forum pretty boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xereau Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Who said anything about wanting or needing to quantify this? And if it's quantifiable, there would be nothing to debate, which would make this forum pretty boring. If you want to argue that someone is not "knowledgeable", or a group of people for that matter, you need to be able to define, and quantify, just exactly what "knoweledgable" is. I see it as an excuse to subdivide fans into haves, and havenots, in terms of "knowledge". It is an ego driven excuse to for the OP to put himself, and his opinions, above a large, amorphous, and easily denigratable mass of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganymede Posted July 11, 2014 Author Share Posted July 11, 2014 Here's a new question. If you believe that you are more knowledgeable then do you believe that automatically makes you a better fan? This is the classic, "So what?! You think you're better than me now?!" response. No, it doesn't. And I hope my original post didn't imply that (although it might have, I'll have to go back to check; probably my last paragraph, where I suggested going to local rinks to learn more). All I really wanted to know was, where do you as a fan see yourself on the spectrum of passionate vs. knowledgeable, and are fans aware of the other fanbases out there? The responses to this question seem to suggest that this was an interesting topic, that many Canucks fans come from different backgrounds, and that yes, there's a difference between fanbases, and level of knowledge of the game. Passion is different than knowledge, but not undeniably "better". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganymede Posted July 11, 2014 Author Share Posted July 11, 2014 If you want to argue that someone is not "knowledgeable", or a group of people for that matter, you need to be able to define, and quantify, just exactly what "knoweledgable" is. I see it as an excuse to subdivide fans into haves, and havenots, in terms of "knowledge". It is an ego driven excuse to for the OP to put himself, and his opinions, above a large, amorphous, and easily denigratable mass of people. "knowledgeable" was defined, and the definition was provided at the top of the post. If I were doing research on knowledgeable fanbases, and wanted to compare Vancouver to Medicine Hat directly, I could quite easily design a survey/questionnaire with hockey-related questions ranging from basic rules, skills and techniques, history of the game, tactics and strategy, etc., test a large sample size from the two regions, and obtain test scores across each region's sample population. So, yes, it can be quantifiable, if you wanted it to be. But this is a forum, where sometimes, people can voice their opinion, which could be up for debate, using personal experiences and anecdotes to support their claims, and to open up a wider discussion for the purposes of inducing some dialogue. I don't think there was any intention to do a massive study on this. Personally, I think doing some self-reflecting and self-assessment on where you stand as a fan, whether you want to call it "passion" or "knowledge", is a healthy exercise. You learn about yourself, and you learn about others, and ultimately being more informed is better than being uninformed. Not every question posed using a descriptor like "knowledgeable" is ego-driven or meant to subdivide a population in order to denigrate a population. Pretty unfair to make that assumption, IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonfruits Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 so people are forming their opinions based on what they read on the forums which makes up a very small percentage of the fan base classic cdc using cdc to generalize the entire fan base Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganymede Posted July 11, 2014 Author Share Posted July 11, 2014 This must be one of the most stupid questions/post ever... Sorry for sounding harsh, but all fanbases are the same. There are some self proclaimed experts, some truly die hard fans (with or without expertise) and a lot of followers, etc... This is no different from other fanbases. The rule goes; the more fans, the more of everything! That means, we got a big fanbase nowdays, so we've got a lot of all categories... But no one can judge WHY you're a fan, and no one should tell others who to root for! There are no rules for being a fan. I'd rather have 1 million "unknowledgeable" but TRUE and LOYAL fans, than a core of self proclaimed experts who says you're not good enough to be a fan! (Or who boo's when the team can't win!) Heart goes before knowledge! (That said, I've lived hockey for all of my life, both played, managed and also had a stint as a referee!) This topic sure generated a lot of lively (and reasonable) debate for being the most "stupid question ever". Regarding your claim that "all fanbases are the same", that's similar to someone saying "all beer tastes the same" because they've only ever tried Molson, Coors, and Budweiser, and then couldn't tell the difference. Clearly, others here who have responded, and who have lived in various cities and towns, have indeed noticed differences in the different fanbases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BI3KSA- Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 We think we know a heck of a lot more than we actually do. We aren't any more intelligent than any other hockey fan base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalky Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 This is the classic, "So what?! You think you're better than me now?!" response. No, it doesn't. And I hope my original post didn't imply that (although it might have, I'll have to go back to check; probably my last paragraph, where I suggested going to local rinks to learn more). All I really wanted to know was, where do you as a fan see yourself on the spectrum of passionate vs. knowledgeable, and are fans aware of the other fanbases out there? The responses to this question seem to suggest that this was an interesting topic, that many Canucks fans come from different backgrounds, and that yes, there's a difference between fanbases, and level of knowledge of the game. Passion is different than knowledge, but not undeniably "better". I don't think it's "So what?! You think you're better than me now?", I think it's more that you asked an elitist and demeaning question and by your defensive responses you are struggling to justify it. Anyone who thinks our fan base is any different than most is not seeing the big picture. We have knowledgeable fans and unknowledgeable fans. The ratio changes with winning. It's really that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalky Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 We think we know a heck of a lot more than we actually do. We aren't any more intelligent than any other hockey fan base. We are exactly the same as other hockey fan bases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalky Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 This topic sure generated a lot of lively (and reasonable) debate for being the most "stupid question ever". Regarding your claim that "all fanbases are the same", that's similar to someone saying "all beer tastes the same" because they've only ever tried Molson, Coors, and Budweiser, and then couldn't tell the difference. Clearly, others here who have responded, and who have lived in various cities and towns, have indeed noticed differences in the different fanbases. Only a knowledgeable beer drinker could taste the difference between Molson, Coors and Bud... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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