'Sexy' Halloween kids costumes at Value Village anger mom

[Mr. Ambien]

There are raincoats and yellow pants...that would more likely represent a firefighter than a mini dress.

FTR, I would not "flip out" around your kid. No one is doing that, we're having a discussion about kids - there's a difference so don't make it overly dramatic here or exaggerate what's happening.

I see you "freaking out" more than anyone else on here?

It's interesting because I see conflicting social values.

I see people wanting to "enable" women and for them to be independent.

I see people wanting women to "express" themselves.

Then I see girls being considered sexual and inappropriate because they're wearing a tight outfit which is a variant of firefighter get-up on a day of wearing costumes.

If girls are considered innocent and non-sexual, then why would anyone look at this as sexual any more than a 1-2 year old running around in a diaper only? Clearly this is adult paranoia oversexualizing something. If one of the girls was being told to bend over, or put themselves in a position that indicated it was sexual, I'd see a reason for concern. "Skin tight" or dresses that aren't cut to the knees or below, aren't inherently sexual, unless an adult is looking sexually at the child, in which case, it's not the costume.

[-DLC-]

It's interesting because I see conflicting social values.

I see people wanting to "enable" women and for them to be independent.

I see people wanting women to "express" themselves.

Then I see girls being considered sexual and inappropriate because they're wearing a tight outfit which is a variant of firefighter get-up on a day of wearing costumes.

If girls are considered innocent and non-sexual, then why would anyone look at this as sexual any more than a 1-2 year old running around in a diaper only? Clearly this is adult paranoia oversexualizing something. If one of the girls was being told to bend over, or put themselves in a position that indicated it was sexual, I'd see a reason for concern. "Skin tight" or dresses that aren't cut to the knees or below, aren't inherently sexual, unless an adult is looking sexually at the child, in which case, it's not the costume.

When girls turn into women, they can decide.

When they're girls, it's up to us to do so for them, help them with that. This isn't helping them...for girls who say "I want to be a firefighter" for Hallowe'en, that this is what they're given as an option. Show up for firefighting like that and you'll get burned. So let's keep it real and not present this crap as firefighters and police. That's my point. You're reaching for something beyond that, but it's simple. This does not represent a firefighter or police woman. Not sure what it is, but it isn't those two things.

[Mr. Ambien]

Lol. you're pretty funny for a troll.

You can see how those firefighter costumes are different than the firefighter costumes I have in my link.

The military does indeed use masks and daggers.

And no, showing any skin is not the same as wearing a minidress. That's like the equivalent of saying a girl not in a hijab might as well be naked.

Edited for spelling.

Someone takes a staunch position on something and disagrees with me, must be troll.

Which military is that?

Evidently the issue is with "sexualizing" kids.. so how is a mini dress and crappy little hat sexual when put on a 4-8 year old?

[Mr. Ambien]

When girls turn into women, they can decide.

When they're girls, it's up to us to do so for them, help them with that. This isn't helping them...for girls who say "I want to be a firefighter" for Hallowe'en, that this is what they're given. Show up for firefighting like that and you'll get burned. So let's keep it real and not present this crap as firefighters and police. That's my point. You're reaching for something beyond that, but it's simple. This does not represent a firefighter or police woman.

If costumes are about being authentic and real, why are girls dressing as fictional characters and animals too? It seems some have a misconception of what a costume is.

[theminister]

Defending the indefensible.

What else is new?

[unknown33429]

Someone takes a staunch position on something and disagrees with me, must be troll.

Which military is that?

Evidently the issue is with "sexualizing" kids.. so how is a mini dress and crappy little hat sexual when put on a 4-8 year old?

Every military in the world. Every Canadian soldier has a knife. I know, I use to be in the military. And most special force members use masks and balaclavas. You get in a close combat, a knife will come in handy. Even beyond that, it's just a practical tool to have.

You have to see the dress as it is, instead of some clothing which the dress is composed of, and look at it in context. Firefighters costumes for boys look like firefighter costumes, and firefighter clothing for girls is composed of skin tight dress with a short skirt, which most people would not even say was a firefighter dress if not for the name on the box, and the partial reflective quality of the clothing.

edit: I'm not in the habit of calling people trolls but reading your posts in general leads me to that conclusion. You seem to be trying way too hard to be provocative.

[Mr. Ambien]

Every military in the world. Every Canadian soldier has a knife. I know, I use to be in the military. And most special force members use masks and balaclavas. You get in a close combat, a knife will come in handy. Even beyond that, it's just a practical tool to have.

You have to see the dress as it is, instead of some clothing which the dress is composed of, and look at it in context. Firefighters costumes for boys look like firefighter costumes, and firefighter clothing for girls is composed of skin tight dress with a short skirt, which most people would not even say was a firefighter dress if not for the name on the box, and the partial reflective quality of the clothing.

edit: I'm not in the habit of calling people trolls but reading your posts in general leads me to that conclusion. You seem to be trying way too hard to be provocative.

Uh, I said sword and dagger, like the very first picture in that link. Not a knife.

And criticizing the culture that excessively coddles children and, themselves, creates this "sexualized" aura unjustifiably is in itself provocative to me, especially when socially these people are imposing out in public.

It's counterproductive teaching children they must be paranoid of others objectifying them. It also teaches them that their individuality must mold to the way prudes view women, all while preaching feminism. I think the hypocrisy here is far too abundant to resist. That culture of paranoia has already resulted in clashes between myself and other parents, so it's not quite as subjective as deb is making it out to be.

Edit: Anyways, I'll agree to disagree, lest that be considered trolling too.

[unknown33429]

Uh, I said sword and dagger, like the very first picture in that link. Not a knife.

And criticizing the culture that excessively coddles children and, themselves, creates this "sexualized" aura unjustifiably is in itself provocative to me, especially when socially these people are imposing out in public.

It's counterproductive teaching children they must be paranoid of others objectifying them. It also teaches them that their individuality must mold to the way prudes view women, all while preaching feminism. I think the hypocrisy here is far too abundant to resist.

Isn't a dagger and knife same thing? And we use swords when they are doing drills and whatnot, which is actually a pretty big part of being in a military.

I'm not taking about what the children ultimately become, Im talking about what children are. Women can and should be allowed to do things 5 year old girls aren't, and preventing children from doing thing certain when they are 5 is not the same as teaching them they will never be allowed to do certain things. Eg) I'm against those child beauty pageants but that does not mean I'm against beauty pageants in general.

Should we start putting stockings on a 7 month old girl to teach her about feminism? There is enough time for children to grow up and develop their individuality after the age of 5.

Finally, you have to remember that it's not 5 year old girls that make that choice to wear that dress; it is usually their parents that choose their dresses or put them in beauty pageants.

[-DLC-]

You don't have to teach children to be paranoid of others, who's saying that? (Hint, you are)

Are you arguing with yourself now, because I'm officially out. Parent your 3 year old however you please, but allow us the same.

[Mr. Ambien]

You don't have to teach children to be paranoid of others, who's saying that? (Hint, you are)

People are paranoid of this perceived sexualizing their kids, why? The rampant fear of predators around every corner just waiting to kidnap a kid. You don't think children pick up on this? No one has been able to tell me what is sexual about a low cut dress and silly hat, so, since it's not a gimp suit, I can't think of any reason why someone would think the clothes itself is sexual besides generic prudeness.

Admittedly, it's a rant that goes into other things too, like the way children are treated at school, and have to walk on eggshells around others.

Anyways, I imagine given how much you dislike this you'd not let your kids wear the dress in question even if they wanted to. Which is perfectly within any rights of a parent to coddle or instill this sort of fear into their children. Sadly, this doesn't just affect the parent(s) and their child(ren). I don't want my kids being held back from individuality, nor forming normal relationships with people, due to the paranoia others have and are extremely imposing about. And sadly, fear spreads like the plague.

[-DLC-]

People are paranoid of this perceived sexualizing their kids, why? The rampant fear of predators around every corner just waiting to kidnap a kid. You don't think children pick up on this? No one has been able to tell me what is sexual about a low cut dress and silly hat, so, since it's not a gimp suit, I can't think of any reason why someone would think the clothes itself is sexual besides generic prudeness.

Admittedly, it's a rant that goes into other things too, like the way children are treated at school, and have to walk on eggshells around others.

Anyways, I imagine given how much you dislike this you'd not let your kids wear the dress in question even if they wanted to. Which is perfectly within any rights of a parent to coddle or instill this sort of fear into their children. Sadly, this doesn't just affect the parent(s) and their child(ren). I don't want my kids being held back from individuality, nor forming normal relationships with people, due to the paranoia others have and are extremely imposing about. And sadly, fear spreads like the plague.

OK, you dragged me back in. Successful baiting, but I have to bite.

Don't put labels on my choices, for they are just that. Coddle? Instill fear? That's your opinion, but it's not how it is. My kids grew up perfectly well adjusted and with a balance...they were exposed to things and we used them as opportunities for discussion.

Again - you using dramatic terms (paranoia) do not make your case. Exaggerations. They actually SEEM a little paranoid and you seem too worried about it all. Some people don't feel these costumes are necessary. Paranoia is fearing that their opinion somehow translates onto your kid. Your job, you make sure they don't and you're successfully parenting. Now I am officially done because, well, it's time we let others have a say (too).

[unknown33429]

People are paranoid of this perceived sexualizing their kids, why? The rampant fear of predators around every corner just waiting to kidnap a kid. You don't think children pick up on this? No one has been able to tell me what is sexual about a low cut dress and silly hat, so, since it's not a gimp suit, I can't think of any reason why someone would think the clothes itself is sexual besides generic prudeness.

Admittedly, it's a rant that goes into other things too, like the way children are treated at school, and have to walk on eggshells around others.

Anyways, I imagine given how much you dislike this you'd not let your kids wear the dress in question even if they wanted to. Which is perfectly within any rights of a parent to coddle or instill this sort of fear into their children. Sadly, this doesn't just affect the parent(s) and their child(ren). I don't want my kids being held back from individuality, nor forming normal relationships with people, due to the paranoia others have and are extremely imposing about. And sadly, fear spreads like the plague.

You honestly need someone on a internet forum to tell you what is sexual about a low cut dress? Wow.

[Mr. Ambien]

Isn't a dagger and knife same thing? And we use swords when they are doing drills and whatnot, which is actually a pretty big part of being in a military.

I'm not taking about what the children ultimately become, Im talking about what children are. Women can and should be allowed to do things 5 year old girls aren't, and preventing children from doing thing certain when they are 5 is not the same as teaching them they will never be allowed to do certain things. Eg) I'm against those child beauty pageants but that does not mean I'm against beauty pageants in general.

Should we start putting stockings on a 7 month old girl to teach her about feminism? There is enough time for children to grow up and develop their individuality after the age of 5.

Finally, you have to remember that it's not 5 year old girls that make that choice to wear that dress; it is usually their parents that choose their dresses or put them in beauty pageants.

You think kids start developing a personality at the age of 5?

My 3 year old picked out a princess dress for my wife to make her. If it were that fireman costume, I wouldn't have cared.

It's not even really about feminism specifically, this smaller issue regarding girls is part of a larger issue with western culture on sexuality. We want girls to express themselves, want them to feel comfortable around others, but don't you dare wear that slutty tight low-cut dress with tights/stockings covering the skin because some pervert might ogle at you.

[Mr. Ambien]

You honestly need someone on a internet forum to tell you what is sexual about a low cut dress? Wow.

So a toddler running around in a diaper only is sexual? I mean, all that skin, bared chest and all.

It's amazing to me so many have this distinct inability to see a rather flagrant double standard.

Edit: deb, here is coddling:

I think the point is this....directing anything toward children that is considered "sexy" or alluring is inappropriate. Kids are kids - let them enjoy that innocence - boys and girls.

There is nothing "sexy" about a toddler or young child unless an adult looks at them that way. In which case, it's the adult's problem. Kids are not so "innocent" that they share the public's excessive concern about perverts 'round every corner. This is adults instilling their fear into children, nothing more.

Anyways, like I said before, I'll agree to disagree, clearly the "troll" theme is running too rampant to enjoy a more critical debate.

[unknown33429]

So a toddler running around in a diaper only is sexual? I mean, all that skin, bared chest and all.

It's amazing to me so many have this distinct inability to see a rather flagrant double standard.

What is this flagrant double standard you speak of?

Is it that we allow toddlers to be bare chested, and we don't allow 5 year old girls to walk around in nothing but a diaper?

Are you seriously saying that because we allow a 7 month girl to walk around in nothing but a diaper means we should let a 11 year old girl do the same?

You need to clarify your point.

There is a flagrant double standard that we let men walk topless on beach but don't let women do the same.

There is a flagrant double standard that we let 16 year olds drive and no one younger drive.

See, I can point out double standards without making a point too.

[unknown33429]

You think kids start developing a personality at the age of 5?

My 3 year old picked out a princess dress for my wife to make her. If it were that fireman costume, I wouldn't have cared.

It's not even really about feminism specifically, this smaller issue regarding girls is part of a larger issue with western culture on sexuality. We want girls to express themselves, want them to feel comfortable around others, but don't you dare wear that slutty tight low-cut dress with tights/stockings covering the skin because some pervert might ogle at you.

You seemed to have missed a major point in my response. The words girls is too broad. Let's talk about a specific age since girls at 16 should be and are allowed to do things 5 year olds aren't. You certainly should have more strict rules for your daughter now than when she is 17, because she is a child and her decisions making skills are not as great as an adults. What if she told your wife she wanted to dress like a Nazi for halloween? I certainly hope you wouldn't allow that.

I get that you don't want your daughter to grow up fearing everyone, which is fair. But you have to be able to recognize that what he believes to be the norm is ultimately influenced by what she sees. Those kinds of dresses are not teaching her that she can dress how she wants; on the contrary, they are teaching kids that men can wear what is pragmatic and useful, and women need a short skirt and need to look sexy regardless of the job they are doing.

[Ghostsof1915]

Wouldn''t it be cheaper to go to Value Village, buy a white blanket. Cut to size. cut two holes for eyes.

Bing. Ghost costume?

Cut tons of holes and say you're Charlie Brown!

[VancouverCanucksRock]

Problem one is you're going to Value Village.

Not everyone is as privileged as you. Do you mess about on the PC all day at work, or do you even need a job? That post count intrigues me

[VancouverCanucksRock]

Are you ???? kidding me? Those things are considered child exploitation? I hardly even see why these things are considered "sexualized". What exactly makes this costume sexual? She's saluting in a uniform.. she's not bending over, or in a sexual position at all.

Good christ, a continent full of prudes.

Kidds should not be wearing skirts three inches below their ass, and last I checked, that is not a Police uniform costume, but a "Naughty Cop" costume instead. Please tell me what your Avatar is? I have an idea, but need you to tell me

[Hugor Hill]

Why can't they wear stuff like these: